SgtBilko

I would add the WOW factor. Probably it's in the FUN factor you listed, but fun and wow may not be the same thing all the time... [X(] [X(]

There just aren't many 4 rotor back yard stable flying Anythings for us to add to the Expensive Toys Bin. This DF is the Top One in my book.

I've looked for years for something like this, fairly simple, easily repaired, no fuel/grease/noise/setup mess, no flight field hassles, no posting your freq ID and waiting an hour for other people to finish flying, no only-going-out-on-a-super-nice-sunny-windless-day thing (hey, that's why we have basements!)...

I put one of mine in the air either inside or outside at least a couple times a week and have since I first got one that was stable (we won't talk about the DF2 hehey) and in spite of all the glitches, phone calls and FedEx to Mike and endless RCToys-waiting-for-DHL stuff, I still give it both thumbs up! GO FLYERS!

davidtkal

My Feedback: (1)

Hello everybody! Hope everyone is enjoying their last bit of summer and are out flying. Sorry that I haven’t participated in the group lately, but I have been reading the forum daily. Scott the 10 things I love about the Draganflyer was very good, and 100% correct! I like to add that the DF inspires me to use my imagination and creativity. This story is a recent example of what I mean.
Ever since 1videoman1 came onto the forum, he raised the bar for us who do the wireless video. I don’t think there wasn’t anyone who didn’t sit-up and take notice, that was amazing! So I wondered why no one ever tried to make one of those vibration isolation mounts? I wondered how it worked, how it moved and mostly how was put together? The only thing I had to work with is the posts here on the forum and 2 pictures and the videos from his webpage. Things that make you go HHMMMMM? Now mind you this started months back. I have tinkered with the idea on and off through this time frame. And it wasn’t till last week, when I was watching his video; I got my first clue on how this mount works. The clue came in the form of a lens flair that was present in an ascending shot over a new home construction site. I could see how it swayed and bounced as the DF flew. It was then I had the EUREKA moment! It all made sense to me, and that fired me up to really try and duplicate this mount. I also found this article on the net, which explained vibration isolation: http://www.flyingsites.co.uk/feature.../vibration.htm

Armed with hardware and paint stirring sticks and a long weekend I hit the workbench! Just a note: it is at this moment my wife becomes a DF widow! She lost me again to the other woman! Anyways, after hours of cutting and drilling I came up with a working model. It looked pretty large and sloppy; it weighed in at 1.5 ounces, YIKES! I could see room for improvement already. I was experimenting with how to mount it when I broke the main mounting arm with a tie-wrap, cinching it down, BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD! []

I then realized that I have a large sheet of .100� sintra plastic that I bought and never used. 5 minutes with a band saw and I had a dozen 3/8 strips to work with. This time I pulled out the stops. I would learn from the first and improve on it. I replaced parts several times till I was satisfied and happy with the results. At the end I wasn’t totally happy with the action of the rubber bands, it was a little bouncy. I had then replaced the rubber bands with 1/16� o-rings. Now we’re cooking with fire! The final weight was .4 of an ounce!
Once mounted, I needed to confirm if it indeed works. Problem is, my DF is crippled right now, and I’m waiting on parts from RC Toys (there’s a surprise). My base plate is broken, 1 vertical riser is cracked and all for motors are at the end of their life. But, in the best interest of this project, IT’S LAUNCH TIME!!! I lugged out my video equipment, (that’s about to be upgraded), and set it up. I had about a 5-minute flight and it was cut short by a squealing and chattering motor. The video was improved by 100%, very still and NO VIBRATION! Damn, all dressed up and no place to go! Grounded, (heavy sigh). I’m very happy with the results and here are some pictures for all to see. Also a video of the action of the mount. Sorry, I didn’t transfer the flight video, because I had a bad interference problem and I got to figure out where it’s coming from. I thought I read in the forum, that people were getting video interference if they mounted the camera below the motors? Could be the transmitter is doing it. Could someone with the extreme cam tell me if they’re happy with its performance? I asked RC Toys about their upcoming 520 lor wireless camera that I read about here in the forum. They could not deny or confirm the camera, saying that they might be offering something in the future, but that’s not certain, so watch the web page. I’ve been looking at a system from Black Widow AV; they have a 480-lor camera for $199, couple that with the 100mw transmitter package and patch antenna, you can have the entire system for $390. HMMMMM? [link=http://www.blackwidowav.com/kx141.html]480 lor Camera[/link]

And so, that’s my story on how this over-priced toy inspires me to challenge my ability to help design and build a workable vibration isolation mount for the DF, I find the whole process very fun and rewarding. I wouldn’t trade it for the world.
[link=http://media.putfile.com/action34]Mount action[/link]

SgtBilko

Hi Davidtkal, good to see your post, was wondering what you were up to Yes I have the eyecam extreme and I am happy with its performance and function. I'm certainly not aiming for professional or perfect video, it's just for fun for me, so I was looking for decent resolution and reduction in vibration effects. I have not had near the problem with wireless interference that I had with the original eyecam from RCToys. I had experimented with several of the cheapie eBay wireless 2.4 cams and all were (in my opinion) junk with very poor quality and quite limited range. The extreme cam I have now has not had any range problems as far out as I flown but I don't go THAT far (not on purpose, anyway ). I came up with the velcro mount I posted another set of pictures on the previous page. The video I posted there was from a while ago in my back yard and you can tell that the vast majority of vibration artifact was gone, mainly showed up with strong acceleration as in correcting a too-fast descent. The velcro is very sturdy and secure, and I used a wide strip which in retrospect is probably way more than I need and probably I can refine this velcro down to a 3/8" or 1/2" strip and get even less vibration. I really like your mount, lots of work there obviously, and the isolation is apparent from the video. How does that work with being mounted below your vertical risers? Do you have a takeoff platform you use or hand launch? I assume landing you find a soft spot and the camera is going to hit the ground every flight? Just wondered how that worked. My velcro setup does not lower the camera to below the landing surface, which was of concern to me with what the freakin eyecam extreme costs [X(]. Anyway good to see your post, hope you get your parts soon (yeh I know the famous RCToys help line response: absolutely, sir, it's in the mail, you should get that any second now...)

davidtkal

My Feedback: (1)

My landing area is usually my driveway. I plan on adding a foam bumper pad to the camera, especially when I upgrade the camera. The mount itself is fairly flexible and landing doesn't slam the camera to the surface. Yes I like the velco idea you came up with, and that's what I used in the Flyby video. I used velco in the camera mount of the new mount, but later decided to secure it with the o-rings. I don't want to buy a camera as of yet, till I get all the new parts and do a good flight test of the system. It's a shame to not fly on such a nice day![]

davidtkal

My Feedback: (1)

Hey Sgtbilko, I tried to PM you but see that you have that turned off, could you e-mail me @ [email protected], I have a question I'd like to ask you, Thanks

threedi

Hi DavidKal

This is EXACTLY what I was on about to the DOG. This is what makes this hobby interesting. Exploration into new ground.
Having the DF with its drawbacks only challenges people to come up with solutions. Great work. I have been working on some vibration solutions and will post when I have something solid for you guys to look at. Have finally got a laptop recorder setup for my Eyecam Extreme and will be playing with that this weekend, weather permitting. I have access to a lot of great gear at work but it just won't fit on a DF, I think its very interesting having a very light platform to work with but yet very stable.
Sorry for my Dog attack by the way hope I didnt offend anybody, he just winds me up.

Kind Regards

davidtkal

My Feedback: (1)

I agree, I totally enjoy taking a brain storm of ideas and putting it through it's paces. I refuse to get in a flame-fest with someone who isn't open to our hobby, flying the Draganflyer. You can ask my wife, there isn't a day going by that I don't pull out my DF and fly it around my yard just for the fun of it, nothing else. It's the best stress reliever I know. As for the DOG, ignore him, he's just a whiny little boy who can't effectively and intelligently communicate with people, nor accept anyone else opinion. (unless it's his own) What kills me is that he's so worried how much we spent of our own money for this model. It's all water under the bridge when your flying it, a shear joy to control, who cares what money was spent. KIDS!

SgtBilko

Sorry I missed your PM, I had gone out for the evening. You have email!

scottslc

Hey David, I love 1videoman's vids, but with his system, your camera looks awfully exposed way underneath. Does your anit-vibration arm effect how the df flies? Looking forward to seeing your vids!

Looking for thoughts on my latest... [link=http://www.slcity.com/df/3645.wmv]Maple Hills[/link]

Scott

yvesOttawa

Nice vids, Scott. Especially at the beginning, rock steady IMO. Are you using your original design (spring plate) or have you made modifcations? What happened around the 1:05 mark? it looked like the eyecam suffered some tunnel vision or something. Were you walking with it as you were shooting?

I agree about 1videoman1's design, high quality vids but that extended arm must do something to the manoverability of the DF. Can't wait to see some vids, David.

davidtkal

My Feedback: (1)

Scott, yeah I know that the camera hangs out there, I plan to pad it well (famous last words). I want to do plenty of test flights to get it right. Still waiting for the mailman to find my house, so he can give me my parts. The mount itself is very light and really does not affect any of the flight charactoristics. I thought the same thing. As you know, the key to getting a great shot is slow and smooth, so if I fly it that way, there isn't any change in the way it flys. Scott your video is extremely good! My wife wants to get me over to her videographer to show him your videos and 1videoman1's video. With all her builder accounts, she see's a future in it (no matter what the idiot dog barks about). I wish I could get ahold of 1videoman1, I've PM'ed him several times but got no responce. So Scott, how are the blades? I've made so many, I got a shelf full of them. I wanted to ask, what video editing software are you using?

scottslc

You'll laugh, but I make the entire vid with windows movie maker. the 1.05 mark? I was going for an old 8mm look to the vid. One think I like about 1video's vids are how sharp they are. Mine seem a little soft. I'll work on the focus a little. I'm still useing my original spring design. I seems to work great so long as there is no wind. Can't do good video in wind anyway so it's a moot point.

Oh, I should point out, when the realtor showed the broker the vid, he called to set up a time to shoot a huge new sub division he's working on. Hey, it pays for my parts... <grin>

Scott

scottslc

Oh and Dave, love the blades. I only use them though when away from things I could hurt such as people, cars, etc...

yvesOttawa

Right-on! this is what we've been saying all along. Nice and safe video platform to work with

markjester

I read your thread with great interest. Thanks for submitting it. The video of it is pretty grainy but I noted that it seemed to work quite well. It seems awful heavy. What was the white material made out of? It actually resembles a leaf spring on a car. I think it is kinda cool that everyone is working on this problem. I attached my camera to the rear view mirror of my car. Even then, the bumps could be seen in the captured video. Personally I am going to work on the fluid filled mount idea. It's not new but there is promise with this. The gel pads seem to be OK but are a little thick to respond to fast, high frequency vibration.

Anyway, good job.

M

davidtkal

My Feedback: (1)

Mark, the matieral is expanded PVC plastic. It's actually very light and strong. The white rotors blades are made of the same matieral. I'm toying with the fluid mount idea, and maybe I'll tinker with it this weekend. SURPRISE! The package came from RC Toys today! Soon the fun will begin.

poorjohn6

I want all to know that Scott is about the best 'sharer' in the whole r/c helicopter world!

While I am awaiting the UPS man to find me (hopefully Monday) with my DF, I contacted Scott and he offered to come from Utah to my home in Idaho and both show me the DF with his modifications and give me a flight demonstration! He was coming up to visit his Dad in a nearby town and took time away from his family. We had an outstanding time with a number of flights. Also went over his approach to commercial use of the DF - outstanding.

I gave him a demo of my r/c electric plane, which I took up to about 150 feet. I have had it up to around 400 feet by the way. I am lucky as my home backups to a park. I only have to travel about 30 feet to start a flight.

Scott was able to adjust my browser so I finally was able to view his videos - unbelievable!

Way to go Scott.

ookooleleian

hey Scott.. SLC..

Nice vids.. however.. on your credits.. you mentioned the heli maker.. the camera maker.. your company.. but I didn't see a mention of Isreal Kamakawiwo'ole (may he R.I.P.) perfoming "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" on a Vintage Martin tenor Ukulele. .. just curious? did you get the mechinical rights to use the tune in a download format? as well as the sting tune on the other vid.. ?

Just bustin your chops.. besides that I'm a Ukulele freak.. and its nice to get a nod to uke players whenever possible..

My fly has been down for awhile.. if I could put this ukulele down long enough to redo my vibration system .. I would be back up too..
My dampining system.. 2 pieces of high density "anti static foam " wafered inbetween the existing mount and the Board.. cheap.. quick.. and non obtrusive with no flight variation. and knocks out 90% of the vibration.

GOT UKE?

yvesOttawa

I have to share this with you guys, Ti has saved my ***** tonight!

That's right, I'm now a thermal intelligence believer. While I was praticing forward flight manouvers at the park, I got disoriented with where the DF was facing (the DF was just too far away). I had set Ti (as per instructions) this morning just in case I ever turned it on through the remote switch and I'm glad I turned it on when I saw the DF side slipping and heading for the ground. Ti was quick to level out the DF, man was that ever cool. All I needed to do then was to throttle back and land safely without harm.

I then flew again (with Ti turned off) and while banking hard a blade hit an arm and half of it flew off. So here it goes again but spiralling this time. Turned Ti with a flick of the switch and it did its thing again, levelled without a problem even with half a blade on one rotor.

Geez, I have to admit that this is truly an amazing feature. I wouldn't always fly with it on but now I feel much more confident knowing that the "switch" can bail me out.

Thought I'd share this experience, it really does work ;P

scottslc

Ok, you got me, while I didn't get the mecanical rights to use his music, I somehow felt Isreal would want me to. The piece is off the meet joe black sound track. Love the entire cd. But what would be really cool is for you to send me an mp3 of your making to use on my next video...

I'm still playing with my vibration system. It seems to work pretty good on calm days, but any wind seems to give it shutters.

Hey John keep us posted on your df, your going to have a lot of fun with it. It's nice to have such a big park right in your back yard.

Scott

madflight

No I have not. But I think the best beginner indoor helicopter to mess around the house and chase the kids and dogs is the Mini Lama sky robo. That is a great little machine.

poorjohn6

Well, Scott, the UPS man did find me. Unpacked and put everything together. Had a few tries at hovering, but the floor keeps getting in the way. Will keep trying and hope some day be to somewhat as good as you.

Yes, as you saw, that back yard will be ideal when I am ready to go outside.

Thanks again for your visit.

John

davidtkal

My Feedback: (1)

Well guys, I pulled out the plastic and shelled out some cash to upgrade my video system. I was experiencing some bad interference and on closer examination, found the antenna broken off. I tried to resolder but had zero luck. Sooooo, I purchased the 480 lor video camera through Black Widow AV, with the ultralite 50mw transmitter and patch antenna for the reciever. All this was a gift from my wife for our 10 year wedding anniversary coming up this month! I love my wife, she alway know what I really want! ( And I guess moping around like a sad puppy because my toy was broke helped)! I'm very curious to compare the Extreme cam to the Black Widow. And so I wait for the mailman to come, AGAIN!

Here's a tip I learned about the motors. To check the wear condition of your motor to see if it's in good condition, grab ahold of the brass pinion gear and lightly pull away from motor. If you got a lot of movement (over an 1/8 of an inch), it's getting close to change out the motors. Point being, I replaced all my motors, the new ones were tight with no movement, while the old ones were sloppy.
Good to know!

ScottSLC, I really like that song you inbedded in the video of Maple Hills. Was that really who sang that song? I've played the video time and time again to here that song. Oh, the video good too! The music just fits very well with it! I'm meeting with my wifes vidographer next monday to show him the Draganflyer setup and to discuss it's uses. Things that make you go HMMMMmmmmmm?

markjester

I too broke my antenna off during my formative weeks of flying. Actually maybe not formative weeks as the Ti did have its issues and had to be sent back a couple of times. Anyway I thought I was out the money for how much it cost for the camera initially. I was beginning my search for another one when I got the bright idea to email rctoys to see if they could fix it. They said they could. It cost 25.00 and some time to get it back from them. So for the bone stock camera to be working without it being replaced, I was pretty happy. Of course if it could not have been fixed then I would have been looking for an upgraded performance one from somewhere.

Just thought I would let you know that they do fix them there. And, upon its return, it works perfectly.

MJ

Hunter850

My Feedback: (1)

Thought I would share this Video (not very good lots of vibration) http://media.putfile.com/Draganmod
What I wanted to pass on is the way new toy I purchased to record the video. I purchased a Personal Video Recorder from a company in CA called Computer Geeks. It ia made by Audiovox and is called PVR 1000. I tried it this morning with the DF camera and receiver and other than the shakey vid the quality of the machine really impressed me.

The cost was only $56 us plus shipping. It uses SD mem cards to record video. I have a 256 meg card in it(not included of course) and have lots of room for recording.

It makes a very nice recording platform at a reasonable price for those of us that don't have a camcorder with vid inputs. There are others on the market as well but this was the cheapest I could find. It is also very easy to tranfer data to PC.