Pat, please allow yourself some time to cool down and evaluate the plusses and minusses. Then make your decision. I too sometimes have a terrible temper, and I am sure I am not the only one. I 'most always had to retrostep on decisions I made while angry.
When posting in a forum, you always have the option of silence instead of lowering yourself to the attacker's level. There will be hate mail everywere. There is no escaping from it, unless you go down under. Not as far as australia I mean.

edit, I needed to look it up, but found Pope's essay on critiscism.
http://poetry.eserver.org/essay-on-criticism.html
Though the whole essay is worth reading and very appropriate in this thread, I quote just one verse from it:

Avoid Extreams; and shun the Fault of such,
Who still are pleas'd too little, or too much.
At ev'ry Trifle scorn to take Offence,
That always shows Great Pride, or Little Sense;
Those Heads as Stomachs are not sure the best
Which nauseate all, and nothing can digest.
Yet let not each guy Turn thy Rapture move,
For Fools Admire, but Men of Sense Approve;
As things seem large which we thro' Mists descry,
Dulness is ever apt to Magnify.

Pat,

It is not just in this forum. I see it everywhere I go, here on RCU. I try to help the new guys, but often it's difficult to help those who have all the answers, even when they don't know all the questions.

There are forums that I will no longer enter, for that very reason. If they don't get the help that they need, they will get bad advice from those who don't have the correct information to give out, and will either spend much more time becoming frustrated when the advice that they accepted does not pan out, and may even leave the hobby. I do wish that you would reconsider, and stay with it a little longer. I can't say that it will get better (when in fact it probably will get worse), but we have all been through the same things at the flying field, and our clubs. Nothing like someone who has been involved for a few months, and suddenly thinks himself an expert.

If you think that you are an expert, you probably are not. If you think that you have a lot to learn, you just might be an expert.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

"Manners maketh man"

Funny how some people are so brave on the other side of a screen, my mother always used to drum into me two thoughts.

Thought one: "Everyone is entitled to their opinion no matter how wrong they are."

Thought two: "If you have nothing nice to say, say nothing"

Loosing anyone on any forum due to a feeling of being abused is a sad indication of how we treat each other.

Mike

This ain't the least bit funny but you know something, Ralph must be sitting at home right now laughing his head off saying "I told you so".

Karol

I have held off posting until now because I didn't have anything constructive to say. (That may still be the case here too but I am going to try) Baldeagle, I too was taught those by Mom and they are still difficult for me to follow at times. While I feel bad for some of the old timers and believe me I respect their decision to leave the forum, (I don't agree with it but I do respect it) I feel the most for the real losers in all this, the ones who need their knowledge. I have resigned myself to ignoring the tormentors (trolls) and just moving on when things get dicey in a particular thread. I know I am not the sharpest tack out there; I have been humbled by many years of stock car auto racing. (More than 30) No matter how good I get there is always someone that can take me down a notch. Someone bigger, badder, meaner, faster. (Probably with more money) I've been in this hobby for almost 45 years and still I have learned from Pe, Pat, Al and others. I realize that I will never know it all and that's why I hate to see them make the decision to leave. Guys, I pray that you will reconsider, and if I have been one of the smart ***** "experts" please accept my most sincere apology.

Marc,
I have visited other forums where it was very easy to ignore a particular individual. Is it possible to set it up so if someone is getting on your nerves you can put them on ignore without leaving the thread you on? Just a thought.

Edited to add: Never mind Marc, I just learned that's what the little red hand does.

I just like to raise the following.

1. RC is a hobby that requires a lot of tweaking and judgement. As such the hobbiests themselves are sometime strong opinionned. It is common for a peice of advice from a seasoned hobbiest gets rejected. I do not see anything is wrong here. In RCU, the most trusted, expert opinion probably does not come from a single seasoned hobbiest, but from a group of poeple that draw the same conclusion. In this sense, RCU helps build consensuses, which are good ways to filter out biased suggestions.

2. Go back to the topic of this thread, it is helpful if RCU can review the moderated post and tell us how the decision was made. Can the moderator accept original-author-edited version of the original post such that it does not violate RCU rules?

I too have been holding off replying to this thread but after reading through it the last few days and seeing the many different directions it has gone I feel I must quip in. Todays novices will be tomorrows experts. If someone feels they are irreplaceable I feel sorry for that person. Just as there are a lot of experts in these forums there are a lot of people fast becoming experts in their own right. before the advent of the internet someone had to learn on their own through trial and error and something that took years to figure out for some of us older people the internet is bringing those same answers in minutes. It doesn't take nearly as long to be an "expert" as it once did. I am considered an expert in my field at work, 30 plus years in engineering and I soon may be teaching at a local university but there isn't a week that goes by that I don't learn something new and many times it comes from someone other than another "expert". As far as someone posting a "new" post that has been discussed before, I think some people don't spend the time on this board as some of us do. I know that I am usually on here every day but I have to think some may be on here very little and it's those people that don't know every thread or that a topic has been discussed in depth( I find humor in the fact that these postings bother some people) or what the credentials are of the people answering their posts. My final thoughts are that many people and especially newer people getting into the hobby have enormous amounts of money invested and frustration mounts when things aren't going well and at times these things can and do lead to some heated discussions on these boards. What may seem very innocent to you might be a very serious matter to someone else especially if that someone else has every spare dime he owns wrapped up in it.

I did review the post in question. It was a reply to another post that was removed. If somebody posts something against the rules and 3 people reply to that post in response to clean up the thread we remove the original post and the replies to it. If we didn't do that then the thread would still contain parts or content of the original offending post and/or the follow up posts would no longer have any context.

This was the case here. All replied to someone else's post which was removed. As part of the cleanup the replies to that offending post were removed. Al's was one of these. It was explained to him this was the case but obviously he doesn't agree with our methodology.

Thanks for letting us know!

What surprizes me about all of this is that it is the "gas engines" forum. As long as I have been surfing the net about RC, it seems that the most passionate posts (centered around "brand loyality") come in the "radio" forum dealing with servos and whose equipment and features are better.

I think this tread should have been entitled "Losing Long time members who contributed much expertize." There are no instant LONG TERM MEMBERS....get the Idea...shure there are some over nite types of experts. But are they going to give there time and help so freely as the guys that did for such a long time...most likely not! Capt,n[]

I am getting a bit confused now, mostly because English is not my native language.
Please explain: (my own meanings in brackets)
Expert ( in my book a title endowed by others, something to be proud of when you get it)
Specialist (a field, with lots of study and understanding the subject, not only study, but understanding the subject as well)
Fool (a title endowned by others, based on a persons speech and/or publications).

If my understanding is right, there can be no selfproclaimed "experts"
There are specialists that I know of, and bow my head to.

I know of some fools, by their own doing.

Some have had a sip of knowledge, but for them I can say:
"A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring;
For shallow draughts intoxicate the brain
And drinking largely sobers us again. "

I am one of these.
When you start learning, the understanding that goes with it is, that beyond your knowlwdge new mountains of yet to be discovered knowledge will rise up.

RCU for me has been kind of the well of Pieria. Learning from others is a great asset, we all have here at RCU. Digesting it with knowledge gathered. and re-presenting it is no great deal, but may help others to get along better in what they want to do this very moment.

So please, forget about the "expert" thing, and let's enjoy sharing what we know, discouver, or ask for.

For those who want to make fools of themselves, Let it be so. ( I hope I just did not )

pe reivers
You certainly did not make a fool out of yourself. What you wrote was very well stated.

From what I've read, your opinions are well thought out and always have merit.

Thank you for your participation in RCU. I've learned a lot reading your opinions as well as Dars and Xjets.
John

Well said.[sm=thumbs_up.gif]

With all of the generational differences we have and the high number of cultures from which our aggregate population consists, I find it miraculous that there are not many more conflicts that what we presently experience. All in all, I think we get along amazingly well.

Older participants are sensitive to the "manners" that are (or are not) employed when they are being addressed or challenged. Such manners are alien to many younger folks. Especially younger folks from different cultures.

Some younger folks are sensitive to being dismissed due to their age, regardless of their intellectual capacity. This can be problematic.

Occasionally, someone will have a bad day and will unintentionally slip up and offend someone, either young, old or in between. And sometimes things will get out of hand with no one being actually right or wrong. It is just life running its course.

There is nothing wrong with a member backing off/away from the forums for a while. It gives us a chance to cool off and to get things back into perspective. Just don't burn any bridges as you leave. You may regret such actions in the future, once you have regained your sense of perspective.

I hate to see anyone leave the forums permanently.


Ed Cregger

This is my first post.
Love everything about RC because it has no limits except imagination, "have a go" attitude, and wallet size.
I learn so much from online forums.
From the ratbags.
From the experts.
Thank you all.

Edit: Strewth, I see in the sidebox that I have trouble counting...it is post number 4.
OK, I lied.

Pe:

As I tried to say before, there is respect that is due all people, and there is respect that is earned. I respected you as a person before, and I respected you for the expertise I determined you had, even if I may have had a slightly different "opinion". Now you have "earned" my respect by your wisdom and insight! Thank you, Pe!

Andy

Flyer Freq: I agree with you 100% about what Pe Reivers said. If we continue to use our best knowledge to help others the best we can...it should work out fine. Capt,n

Okay guys, Once again, and I hope for the last time, I find it necessary to sign on here to set a few things straight. Marc, the thread you're talking about is NOT why I quit RCU. I was the one that asked RCKen to delete my post because it made no sense after he deleted the others. I could care less about silly things like that and object to you trying to make it seem that I am that trivial. NOW, let's get down to facts. Everyone reading this post go to the below listed thread please and read it. The title is a simple poll. The answers start out that way. Then we get into the age old politicians who think they are the foundation of the AMA and how they know everything and everyone else posting is trivial and knows nothing. These guys are here every day and do this every day in the AMA Discussion Forum WHICH, UNDER RCU RULES, shouldn't even exist because it is nothing more then political discussions. I find it kind of funny that we in the gas engine forum can have threads locked because someone mentions China's labor policies but these "AGE OLD" members of the AMA can sit around and spout crap and insult people until you know where freezes over. NOW Marc, You want to do something for RCU??? Get rid of this forum and follow your own rules. Nobody likes a hipocrit and, in my honest opinion, the existence of this forum makes you and your mods look like one. Here's the thread, if RCU doesn't delete it to keep you from reading it. Check out a few of the others while you're there. They're all pretty much the same crap from the same people.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_65..._1/key_/tm.htm

Don't want to read it all or don't have time? Well here's a typical response from one of their TOP GUYS, a legend in his own mind! Yeah, he really embodies the sport! BTW It was posted on 10/23/2007 so they have had plenty of time to delete it if they wanted to.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=6526082

THAT'S the kind of crap that made me quit this site along with Trolls like our Columbian friend.

Al Lewis

I read it, IMO the poll was started to ignite just that sort of stuff, If a bunch of old bench flyers want to trade insults I for one simply dont read it
The AMA discussion has been going on for years

I think if we stay strictly on the hobby side while visiting RCU, we should be fine.

This is what I follow: never name calling on RCU, for otherwise I waste my time and become a RCU fool.

Well then here's another prime example. On the BEGINNERS forum a beginner asks a simple question about wing incidence.
He's given a basic answer in a manner he can understand by one of the Mods with pictures.
Now our boy Horrace jumps in with this:


Good answer! Maybe just a little too deep for a BEGINNER????

So I put the following post.

Unfortunately he (Horrace) was so busy trying to be impressive that he gave an answer that totally confused a beginner. There's a reason it's called the "BEGINNERS" forum. K.I.S.S.


My post was immediately deleted by RCKen. The same guy that moderates the , you guessed it, "AMA DISCUSSIONS"!!!!
Here's the thread:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6889446/tm.htm

Unfortunately my reply was deleted by the mods before it even hit the screen. Got to protect the old guys!!!!

Now this is the kind of post that is insulting to me. Just because we have become old, doesn't mean that we only bench fly. I am sure that you didn't mean to be insulting by what you posted, but often we can be insulting by what we say, in spite of our best efforts. The people who are making the meaningful posts in that thread are some of the more serious modellers that you will ever meet. Some of those who are throwing road apples are actually fairly young people who only inhabit the AMA forum, and to my knowledge, have never posted a picture of any model airplane that they have either built or flown. One, is (believe it or not) not a member of the AMA, but seems to injoy stirring the pot within the AMA forum.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

I guess I could be lumped under those "old bench flyers" ? Now in my 82nd year, built my first models around 1939..
Still love the hobby, and still active with four Giant Scale gassers..
Now, being old dont necessarily make one smart, but each day we live, experience, and learn..
I've found, the most important knowledge one gains is that little bit he learns, right after He knows it all....