Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
06-15-2005, 01:56 PM
#5351
RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
ORIGINAL: turbo4
I decided to start the plane up in the yard this evening. It went pretty good till I decided to tach it.......I watched my carbon spinner scream across the yard. Lost 5 of 6 bolts and the spinner broke at some of the mounting holes.(no loctite on the spinner to backplate bolts....oops). Im using a ZingerPro 22 x 8. First read was 7500, second read was 7440.(that is not a typo) Are most of you able to keep 100% endpoints both directions on the throttle? I have my linkage set to close the carb completly and open the carb completely. Without stalling the servos the best I could get was 95% on both. But if I adjust to get a good idle it cuts it to 70% on one end. Im using a aluminum servo arm that is the exact same size as the arm on the carb, and a hole in that arm that aligns perfect. Thoughts please........Joel
I decided to start the plane up in the yard this evening. It went pretty good till I decided to tach it.......I watched my carbon spinner scream across the yard. Lost 5 of 6 bolts and the spinner broke at some of the mounting holes.(no loctite on the spinner to backplate bolts....oops). Im using a ZingerPro 22 x 8. First read was 7500, second read was 7440.(that is not a typo) Are most of you able to keep 100% endpoints both directions on the throttle? I have my linkage set to close the carb completly and open the carb completely. Without stalling the servos the best I could get was 95% on both. But if I adjust to get a good idle it cuts it to 70% on one end. Im using a aluminum servo arm that is the exact same size as the arm on the carb, and a hole in that arm that aligns perfect. Thoughts please........Joel
As for your RPM's, its your prop. You have less blade area than, say, a menz, so you have less drag. Dynamically, the Zinger will probably produce about the same thrust as the Menz, but statically, and response-wise, it won't compare to the menz, Bolly, MSC. I highly recommend you get one of those for aerobatic flight.
06-15-2005, 05:43 PM
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RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
ORIGINAL: bodyworks
IMO, the 2-2.5 ounce weight savings of the CF spinner is a performance enhancer, provided you don't need the weight up front.
As for your RPM's, its your prop. You have less blade area than, say, a menz, so you have less drag. Dynamically, the Zinger will probably produce about the same thrust as the Menz, but statically, and response-wise, it won't compare to the menz, Bolly, MSC. I highly recommend you get one of those for aerobatic flight.
ORIGINAL: turbo4
I decided to start the plane up in the yard this evening. It went pretty good till I decided to tach it.......I watched my carbon spinner scream across the yard. Lost 5 of 6 bolts and the spinner broke at some of the mounting holes.(no loctite on the spinner to backplate bolts....oops). Im using a ZingerPro 22 x 8. First read was 7500, second read was 7440.(that is not a typo) Are most of you able to keep 100% endpoints both directions on the throttle? I have my linkage set to close the carb completly and open the carb completely. Without stalling the servos the best I could get was 95% on both. But if I adjust to get a good idle it cuts it to 70% on one end. Im using a aluminum servo arm that is the exact same size as the arm on the carb, and a hole in that arm that aligns perfect. Thoughts please........Joel
I decided to start the plane up in the yard this evening. It went pretty good till I decided to tach it.......I watched my carbon spinner scream across the yard. Lost 5 of 6 bolts and the spinner broke at some of the mounting holes.(no loctite on the spinner to backplate bolts....oops). Im using a ZingerPro 22 x 8. First read was 7500, second read was 7440.(that is not a typo) Are most of you able to keep 100% endpoints both directions on the throttle? I have my linkage set to close the carb completly and open the carb completely. Without stalling the servos the best I could get was 95% on both. But if I adjust to get a good idle it cuts it to 70% on one end. Im using a aluminum servo arm that is the exact same size as the arm on the carb, and a hole in that arm that aligns perfect. Thoughts please........Joel
As for your RPM's, its your prop. You have less blade area than, say, a menz, so you have less drag. Dynamically, the Zinger will probably produce about the same thrust as the Menz, but statically, and response-wise, it won't compare to the menz, Bolly, MSC. I highly recommend you get one of those for aerobatic flight.
I have a Meijzlik(sp) on order and I have a JWilliams drilling a Bolly for me. I should have the Bolly by friday as for the other one....?????? Hopefully soon. I realize the zinger is a poor choice but it was for the break-in only since there cheap. I sent Pierre of Petes Models an email about the spinner to see if I can fix, as for now I have a new spinner cone coming overnight.
06-15-2005, 07:46 PM
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RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
On carbon spinners I put black silcone on the threads of the button head bolts then I dont over tighen them wipe off excess silcone and let dry .They will hold better come out e-z when you need to remove them and they dont damage the spinner and cause them break the carbon thus loseing your spinner .
06-17-2005, 08:13 AM
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RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
I think this is the first time I had to search for this thread on the second page. Well I flew mine for the first time last night. Flies great. Took a little more up elevator trim then I thought and some right rudder. This is my first gasser. That DA is just awesome. Starts right up and just runs. Felt like I was flying an oversized foamie. When I was coming in for a landing everyone was yelling your going to stall it. I knew I wasn't. They couldn't believe how slow I brought it in.
Later,
Craig
Later,
Craig
06-17-2005, 02:41 PM
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RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
Another maiden this morning 
. Everything went well with no mishaps. Hatch latch mod worked fine. Engine runs well. I was surprised at how agile and quick this plane responds. EZ to land even in crosswind, however it was more shaky than I would have thought. This is my first gasser as well, in fact its the first thing for me larger than a 40 size glow[8D]. Balanced real well at 7.5" from root of leading edge.(or .5" behing the stripe at tips) I have the stock muffler, carbon spinner(flew today with only the backplate) 1 2100 nimh 6v on the motor box and 1 of the same just behing the wing tube. Reciever in front of the rudder servo. Inverted is nearly hands off. I set my throws/expo per the manual to start, adding middle rates between,for triple rates. All in all Im pleased. I flew pretty high and docile till I gain confidence in the motor and KNOW it will run in all attitudes and idle. Can't really give much of a flight report. I forgot to take pics the field.[:@] Thanks to all who helped answer my questions and get this thing set up.........Joel
. Everything went well with no mishaps. Hatch latch mod worked fine. Engine runs well. I was surprised at how agile and quick this plane responds. EZ to land even in crosswind, however it was more shaky than I would have thought. This is my first gasser as well, in fact its the first thing for me larger than a 40 size glow[8D]. Balanced real well at 7.5" from root of leading edge.(or .5" behing the stripe at tips) I have the stock muffler, carbon spinner(flew today with only the backplate) 1 2100 nimh 6v on the motor box and 1 of the same just behing the wing tube. Reciever in front of the rudder servo. Inverted is nearly hands off. I set my throws/expo per the manual to start, adding middle rates between,for triple rates. All in all Im pleased. I flew pretty high and docile till I gain confidence in the motor and KNOW it will run in all attitudes and idle. Can't really give much of a flight report. I forgot to take pics the field.[:@] Thanks to all who helped answer my questions and get this thing set up.........Joel
06-17-2005, 03:48 PM
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RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
ckoerner, it's a good bet that if you have a bit of up in your elevators, you are still noseheavy. My first flights I ended up with about a 1/8 " up trim. After I got the cg where I wanted it, that up trim was no longer needed.
Matt
Matt
06-17-2005, 03:50 PM
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RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
My cg is just at the back edge of the yellow stripe. It was originally 7.5" back and then I moved the battery up. I can probably move it back now.
06-17-2005, 03:59 PM
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RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
I have no idea where my CG is, I just adjust till I like it! And actually, after flying last night, I think it could go back a bit more. I had it way back but it really hurt knife edge coupling. Right now it knifes very good but it doesn't throw the tail much at all in 3D.
Matt
Matt
06-17-2005, 05:32 PM
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RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
I almost test flew mine today but was scuttled by the rudder cable pulling out of the stock cable fitting . I was sure that the other guys who had it happen just didn't do it right but it happened to me even though I was very careful . Anyone have any tips on how to do it right . I want to try again tomorrow .
BTW , the DA 50 started on the second flip after choking . Sweet engine . I was turning an MSC [rop at 6300 rpm but think that's loading the engine down a bit . I'll be seeing Mike tomorrow and will get the 22-8.
Marc
BTW , the DA 50 started on the second flip after choking . Sweet engine . I was turning an MSC [rop at 6300 rpm but think that's loading the engine down a bit . I'll be seeing Mike tomorrow and will get the 22-8.
Marc
06-17-2005, 05:36 PM
#5360
RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
hi Marc,
After losing the rudder on mine twice in the first 3 flights, I replaced the stock set up completely with a Sullivan Kevlar package that I use on all my other giant planes, No more rudder problems since.
Hope to see you out in Burlington with it sometime.
Mike
After losing the rudder on mine twice in the first 3 flights, I replaced the stock set up completely with a Sullivan Kevlar package that I use on all my other giant planes, No more rudder problems since.
Hope to see you out in Burlington with it sometime.
Mike
06-17-2005, 05:47 PM
#5361
RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
I did not use any of the rudder steering stuff-
I buy a roll of 80 lb test Berkely nylon coated steel leader (STEELON) and sleeves to secure it-total cost under 5 bucks
Each pivot point is a ball end with a piece of 4/40 threaded end DuBro wire shaped into an eyelet on the end (4pieces req'd).
So -- attach the two assemblies at the rudder - shove the wires up front -to the other two connection points and loop and crush the connectors.
I make only a single pass thru the sleeves then crush them with Vise Grips -that wire will never slip.
Now - if the length is waaay off (mistake!)
undo ball at one end and adjust length --and - If you really screwed up -just make another 4/40 wire end about the right length to do the job -slip the wire into the eyelet and then close it.
This may be an old fashioned looking setup -not KOOOOL but it really works and is really easy to do.
I buy a roll of 80 lb test Berkely nylon coated steel leader (STEELON) and sleeves to secure it-total cost under 5 bucks
Each pivot point is a ball end with a piece of 4/40 threaded end DuBro wire shaped into an eyelet on the end (4pieces req'd).
So -- attach the two assemblies at the rudder - shove the wires up front -to the other two connection points and loop and crush the connectors.
I make only a single pass thru the sleeves then crush them with Vise Grips -that wire will never slip.
Now - if the length is waaay off (mistake!)
undo ball at one end and adjust length --and - If you really screwed up -just make another 4/40 wire end about the right length to do the job -slip the wire into the eyelet and then close it.
This may be an old fashioned looking setup -not KOOOOL but it really works and is really easy to do.
06-17-2005, 06:27 PM
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RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
I have a question, actually two.....What are most of you seeing as RPM's on your DA-50's and with what prop? I am not sure how it relates and am just curious. Mine is turning the 22X12 at 6300. I am changing the Jeti 77's out for the new CastleCreations 110HV controllers and will test the 24x12.
What is the advantage of a three blader? My LHS has a 23x12 three blade CF Menz that I am itching to try, but $80.00 for a prop that might or might not work..hmmmm
-Mike
What is the advantage of a three blader? My LHS has a 23x12 three blade CF Menz that I am itching to try, but $80.00 for a prop that might or might not work..hmmmm
-Mike
06-17-2005, 07:05 PM
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RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
Strip the coating off the first 3/4" or so. Make the bends in the wire as suggested, then dip the end of the cable in flus and apply a small amount of solder this will keep it from slipping coming back through the connector.
With that said, I changed mine out for DuBro...
The tip above was from the QQ 102" Yak manual....
With that said, I changed mine out for DuBro...
The tip above was from the QQ 102" Yak manual....
ORIGINAL: 747drvr
I almost test flew mine today but was scuttled by the rudder cable pulling out of the stock cable fitting . I was sure that the other guys who had it happen just didn't do it right but it happened to me even though I was very careful . Anyone have any tips on how to do it right . I want to try again tomorrow .
BTW , the DA 50 started on the second flip after choking . Sweet engine . I was turning an MSC [rop at 6300 rpm but think that's loading the engine down a bit . I'll be seeing Mike tomorrow and will get the 22-8.
Marc
I almost test flew mine today but was scuttled by the rudder cable pulling out of the stock cable fitting . I was sure that the other guys who had it happen just didn't do it right but it happened to me even though I was very careful . Anyone have any tips on how to do it right . I want to try again tomorrow .
BTW , the DA 50 started on the second flip after choking . Sweet engine . I was turning an MSC [rop at 6300 rpm but think that's loading the engine down a bit . I'll be seeing Mike tomorrow and will get the 22-8.
Marc
06-17-2005, 07:07 PM
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RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
My buddy Tom is getting 7100 and 7200 on a 22x8 MSC (two different planes)
I've removed my CHP pipe to do more tests ont he bench and just put a NX 23x9 on it with stock muffler... will let you know the rpms when I can...
No real advantage to 3 blades other than to reduce noise, look scale or cool, or for ground clearance. They often provide less performance than it's 2 blade counterpart... If you are getting satisfactory performance from a 22x8 then you normally drop down a size or 2 to a 20" or 21" 3 blade and maybe up a pitch.
If you are getting 6300 with a 22x8 you won't have any worries about prop rip... which is closer to 7,000 or above maybe a but more. Of course depends on the prop design too) So I'd stear away from a 3 blade unless looks is the driving force... I think you'd find you'd lose enough performance that it would start to look less "purdy".
I've removed my CHP pipe to do more tests ont he bench and just put a NX 23x9 on it with stock muffler... will let you know the rpms when I can...
No real advantage to 3 blades other than to reduce noise, look scale or cool, or for ground clearance. They often provide less performance than it's 2 blade counterpart... If you are getting satisfactory performance from a 22x8 then you normally drop down a size or 2 to a 20" or 21" 3 blade and maybe up a pitch.
If you are getting 6300 with a 22x8 you won't have any worries about prop rip... which is closer to 7,000 or above maybe a but more. Of course depends on the prop design too) So I'd stear away from a 3 blade unless looks is the driving force... I think you'd find you'd lose enough performance that it would start to look less "purdy".
ORIGINAL: Mike Parsons
I have a question, actually two.....What are most of you seeing as RPM's on your DA-50's and with what prop? I am not sure how it relates and am just curious. Mine is turning the 22X12 at 6300. I am changing the Jeti 77's out for the new CastleCreations 110HV controllers and will test the 24x12.
What is the advantage of a three blader? My LHS has a 23x12 three blade CF Menz that I am itching to try, but $80.00 for a prop that might or might not work..hmmmm
-Mike
I have a question, actually two.....What are most of you seeing as RPM's on your DA-50's and with what prop? I am not sure how it relates and am just curious. Mine is turning the 22X12 at 6300. I am changing the Jeti 77's out for the new CastleCreations 110HV controllers and will test the 24x12.
What is the advantage of a three blader? My LHS has a 23x12 three blade CF Menz that I am itching to try, but $80.00 for a prop that might or might not work..hmmmm
-Mike
06-18-2005, 09:14 AM
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RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
So with Stock muffler and 23x8 NX I am now getting 6600... a400 rpm increase over CHP without it being tuned... this completely supports what Bodyworks has been saying. THough I can't for the life of me understand why in February I was getting MORE RPMs than on the stock... Go figure...
Anywho... I am going to be ecstatic with 6600 on that NX prop.... I really liked the way if flew the plane, but I was wanting for some more getup and go near top end... I got's it now... 4.2 lbs more...
35.53 Static Thrust lbs... On a now 15.25 lb plane....Even though this is a new engine it was bought before the rod & carb mods... will send it in as soon as I can get a new DA50 that already has these done...
What?.... you didn't think I'd allow myself to miss flying my Yak... (not that the weather and my health hasn't kept me from doing so for 2 weeks...)
We may go today... fingers crossed...
06-18-2005, 09:32 AM
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RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
"t's it now... 4.2 lbs more... 35.53 Static Thrust lbs... On a now 15.25 lb plane.... "???
David, how did you measure this data?
Hope you are getting better and feeling well. !~)
Joe
David, how did you measure this data?
Hope you are getting better and feeling well. !~)
Joe
06-18-2005, 09:48 AM
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RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
I use a program called ThrustCalc available from www.bmaps.net It's free with no popup crap... just a good, free tool.
The direct link to the file is here: [link=http://www.bmaps.net/software/thrusthpv20d.zip]ThrustCalc v2.0d[/link]
It's a pretty nice program and though it may not be exactly as in real life, it is a good indicator... at least I have found it to be so...
Looks like this:
The direct link to the file is here: [link=http://www.bmaps.net/software/thrusthpv20d.zip]ThrustCalc v2.0d[/link]
It's a pretty nice program and though it may not be exactly as in real life, it is a good indicator... at least I have found it to be so...
Looks like this:
06-18-2005, 10:35 AM
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RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
David, IME with a few digital scales your numbers are at least 30% too high. Not saying your calculator is bad but if I were doing a scale project and needed acurate data I would could not use anything but real world numbers.
In any case, a DA50 on a 15lbs plane will be way over 1 to 1 and a blast to fly.
Did Chris get in a bunch of new 87"ers?
Joe
In any case, a DA50 on a 15lbs plane will be way over 1 to 1 and a blast to fly.
Did Chris get in a bunch of new 87"ers?
Joe
06-18-2005, 10:42 AM
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RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
First of all most of the DA50's are offering more than 2:1...
Keep in mind that when in the air the prop is unloaded and can make up for your "30%" amount... the figures from both these calcs are indeed correct.
Now there are several things that come into play... Prop obstruction for one.
The fish scale test is incorrect too (too low) as it calculates the fact that the plane is touching the ground (resistance) as well as having to pull the airframe AND your fishscale. It's is after all it's pulling a 15 lb airframe as well albeit on "rollers"
I'd prefer to rely on the calcs than a fishscale anyday. (Not that the scales aren't accurate, but the method for me isn't)
Keep in mind that when in the air the prop is unloaded and can make up for your "30%" amount... the figures from both these calcs are indeed correct.
Now there are several things that come into play... Prop obstruction for one.
The fish scale test is incorrect too (too low) as it calculates the fact that the plane is touching the ground (resistance) as well as having to pull the airframe AND your fishscale. It's is after all it's pulling a 15 lb airframe as well albeit on "rollers"
I'd prefer to rely on the calcs than a fishscale anyday. (Not that the scales aren't accurate, but the method for me isn't)
ORIGINAL: Goekeli
David, IME with a few digital scales your numbers are at least 30% too high. Not saying your calculator is bad but if I were doing a scale project and needed acurate data I would could not use anything but real world numbers.
In any case, a DA50 on a 15lbs plane will be way over 1 to 1 and a blast to fly.
Did Chris get in a bunch of new 87"ers?
Joe
David, IME with a few digital scales your numbers are at least 30% too high. Not saying your calculator is bad but if I were doing a scale project and needed acurate data I would could not use anything but real world numbers.
In any case, a DA50 on a 15lbs plane will be way over 1 to 1 and a blast to fly.
Did Chris get in a bunch of new 87"ers?
Joe
06-18-2005, 10:54 AM
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RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
David,
Suit yourself as long as we are all having fun. I do understand the physical aspects of the digital scale on the ground but what about a plane that is hanging from the prop? Is that not static? Perhaps that would be an interesting time to pull the digital scale.
On another note about your CHP pipe and muffler experience, did you re-tune your needles? What was the temperature difference? Same exact prop?
"The plural of anecdote is NOT data", like Bill M. says(Aresti2004)!~)".
Joe
Suit yourself as long as we are all having fun. I do understand the physical aspects of the digital scale on the ground but what about a plane that is hanging from the prop? Is that not static? Perhaps that would be an interesting time to pull the digital scale.
On another note about your CHP pipe and muffler experience, did you re-tune your needles? What was the temperature difference? Same exact prop?
"The plural of anecdote is NOT data", like Bill M. says(Aresti2004)!~)".
Joe
06-18-2005, 11:39 AM
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RE: Extreme Flight 87" Yak 54 - Build & Fly
Nope... because the engine is already pulling the weight of the plane... say 16 with fuel... what would read on the swcale is how much MORE thrust it had in addition to 16 lbs thrust it was already exerting...
When I initially put the 23x9 on it was with stock muffler... the rpm was so lo I was dissappointed. I removed it and used an MSC 22x8 for the figureds I acheived...
I did tweak the needles SOME but not much... the interesting thing is that the CHP figures I got in February was not attaimable in the summer. 6800+ just wan't going to happen as I ws gteting about 6600... if I recall correctly. The stock muffler is nopw giving me 660 on the 23x8 p[roviding the same theoretical static thrust as with an MSC 22x8 running 7200.... SOOOOO
I still enjoyed the plane MORE with a 6200 rpm 23x8 than I did with a 6600 22x8... I just wanted more top end...
So now with the 23x9 and an extra 400 rpm... I should notice a drastic difference in power.
Ah well... this is what I go by anyway... how the bird feels (Dick Hanson has preached this many times) and even though the figures I derive from ThrustCalc are a good indication, it's not til I start playing with props that I can feel the difference. ANd that's no JR plug...
When I initially put the 23x9 on it was with stock muffler... the rpm was so lo I was dissappointed. I removed it and used an MSC 22x8 for the figureds I acheived...
I did tweak the needles SOME but not much... the interesting thing is that the CHP figures I got in February was not attaimable in the summer. 6800+ just wan't going to happen as I ws gteting about 6600... if I recall correctly. The stock muffler is nopw giving me 660 on the 23x8 p[roviding the same theoretical static thrust as with an MSC 22x8 running 7200.... SOOOOO
I still enjoyed the plane MORE with a 6200 rpm 23x8 than I did with a 6600 22x8... I just wanted more top end...
So now with the 23x9 and an extra 400 rpm... I should notice a drastic difference in power.
Ah well... this is what I go by anyway... how the bird feels (Dick Hanson has preached this many times) and even though the figures I derive from ThrustCalc are a good indication, it's not til I start playing with props that I can feel the difference. ANd that's no JR plug...
