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Old 05-11-2014, 03:59 PM
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Old Fart, HHQ supplies a very neat book with each Saito it sells. It shows the correct type of and quantity of oil mix to be used along with a run in procedure, combined with safety measures to be followed. Thus endeth the sermon With regards to the windscreen thing, not as good as a hot electric glider fuselage going through successive garage doors or the Saito 120 going in one side of a Citroen DSM and out the otherside. But never the less I would guess a tad exciting. BTB what out for SHY over your way she and her mob are protesting about UAV's being operated in city parks.
Old 05-11-2014, 04:25 PM
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If you go to Horizon's site, go through the engine catalogue to the engine you need information on. Click on the engine to open its page, then click on the "manuals & support" tab. That will either open the PDF for the manual, or bring up a PDF icon.

That will allow you to download the same manuals that come W/the new engines.
Old 05-11-2014, 04:48 PM
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I'd like to possibly, maybe join this brotherhood. I like my saytoe's.
Old 05-11-2014, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by FNQFLYER
With regards to the windscreen thing, not as good as a hot electric glider fuselage going through successive garage doors or the Saito 120 going in one side of a Citroen DSM and out the otherside. But never the less I would guess a tad exciting.
Hahahahahaha please be a little more specific on the Citroen incident.......
Old 05-11-2014, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim Branaum
Jeez, I almost feel that this is yet another waste of time just like the oil and turn down wind wars.

*I* use the exact same break in procedure on my Saito's as I have used on my OS ABC engines. Put it on the plane, tie it down, fuel it up, start it up and run it for 30 seconds before peaking it with the HSN for 15 seconds then richening it up a 1/2 turn or more (1/2 early, more late in the
Pretty interesting chatter. Jim, BTW, I have a 125 that would have torn your plane to confetti if you strapped it on right out of the box, especially those featherlight ARFs they're building in China.

I'm with you Senior on goosing the engine and varying throttle some. They run hard if you break them in hard. Always works for me. They're running full song at times when they begin to sound a little like Saitos, usually the second tank.
Old 05-11-2014, 10:09 PM
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I would like some help with identifying which Saito 56 I have as the crankshaft and conrod are worn out. There are at least 2 versions of the crankshaft listed. So, how do I identify what version I have and the part number of the replacement shaft.
Thanks, Jim
Old 05-12-2014, 02:09 AM
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
Considering some people spend over $70 on a Turboheader muffler for their Saito singles, the modification that you are speaking of isn't all that expensive. Especially when the vastly improved performance is takin into account.

It is a shame though that Saito didn't do the R&D themselves. I'm having the mod done to a 12.2:1 high compression methanol version of the FG-83R3 built on an FA-450R3 core.
Interesting, I have a pair of FA-450R3's that I will run on methanol with CH ignition, and doing the Ray English mod to them is high on my to-do list. How much for the modification?

What other mods are you doing to the FA-450? Some more info would be great.
Old 05-12-2014, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Pondus
Interesting, I have a pair of FA-450R3's that I will run on methanol with CH ignition, and doing the Ray English mod to them is high on my to-do list. How much for the modification?

What other mods are you doing to the FA-450? Some more info would be great.

An FA-450R3 set up like that should make considerably more power than the 14% larger displacement "gasser" if tuned properly.

Comparing the results if a CDI/glow fuel FA-150 to an FG-30 gas engine can be used for comparison, the CDI/glow fuel version of the FA-450R3 should make about 10-12% more power than the slightly larger gas engine.

Fuel economy will be helped tremendously by the CDI conversion compared to GI.

As far as the mods I am doing?

Since the top end was totally trash on the FA-450R3 at I bought on the net, I am swapping FA-180 jugs W/FG-84R pistons to achieve the same displacement of 5.12 cu in or 84cc. The case deck will bill milled by 1mm to raise the CR to about 13:1. The pushrods will also be shortened a like amount. Ray will be doing that work in addition to the induction mod.

I have already modified my backplate for the larger 14mm gland nut of the FA-130-180 single cylinder engines to allow experimentation W/11mm, 12mm & the stock 19mm FA-450R3 carburetors.

I expect the power output to be as much as 40% higher than the Ray English FG-84R3. Considering the already substantial 7.75 HP output of the Ray English FG-84R3,the high compression nitro/methanol version W/Ray's mod should be staggering, perhaps exceeding 9 HP.

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Old 05-12-2014, 04:16 AM
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Originally Posted by thatairplaneguy
I'd like to possibly, maybe join this brotherhood. I like my saytoe's.
Welcome mate
Old 05-12-2014, 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by blw
Pretty interesting chatter. Jim, BTW, I have a 125 that would have torn your plane to confetti if you strapped it on right out of the box, especially those featherlight ARFs they're building in China.

I'm with you Senior on goosing the engine and varying throttle some. They run hard if you break them in hard. Always works for me. They're running full song at times when they begin to sound a little like Saitos, usually the second tank.

The main thing is to NOT take one out of the box & peak it out before checking the mixture & letting some oil into the block in case the engine wasn't lubed up properly during assembly. That is why I avoid long high RPM blasts until the engine runs for a few minutes & I assure that it is running rich enough & slobbering a bit of oil from the exhaust.

After about 20 minutes of playing around W/throttle, the engine is ready to peak.
Old 05-12-2014, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Pondus
Interesting, I have a pair of FA-450R3's that I will run on methanol with CH ignition, and doing the Ray English mod to them is high on my to-do list. How much for the modification?

.

You need to call Ray for that. All I can say is that his rates are very reasonable. It is well worth the price.
Old 05-12-2014, 04:59 AM
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Jeez sr if you wer'nt so judgemental and sounded just like the worst teacher i ever had you would almost be human,son of a so and so.It's a lot of fun to run and fly these engines we have,.Fifty years ago we'd be stuck with those awfull harleys still,so rejoice,the japs won the war and now we've got saitos to tune,works for me.If you and hobbsy want to keep arguing over the same old ground well and good but as jim braunum once said that's boring.And i'd like to see a real time vid of good ole jimbo running in a brand new saito in the manner he so vividly describes...now that would be something to share friends
Old 05-12-2014, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
Jeez sr if you wer'nt so judgemental and sounded just like the worst teacher i ever had you would almost be human,son of a so and so.It's a lot of fun to run and fly these engines we have,.Fifty years ago we'd be stuck with those awfull harleys still,so rejoice,the japs won the war and now we've got saitos to tune,works for me.If you and hobbsy want to keep arguing over the same old ground well and good but as jim braunum once said that's boring.And i'd like to see a real time vid of good ole jimbo running in a brand new saito in the manner he so vividly describes...now that would be something to share friends
Aren't you being a bit judgemental about me being judgemental?
Old 05-12-2014, 05:30 AM
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BTW, the biggest problem W/"Harleys" is the last guy that wrenched on them or the lack of maintenance.

I rode my '64 Panhead for years & besides flat tires, it only left me walking 1 time.

The only ones the Japs put out of business where the "Limeys". Harley Davidson is still going string W/their "V" twins & the Japs are copying them.
Old 05-12-2014, 05:32 AM
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Thank goodness I'm the ONLY one that's ever wrenched on my Harley.. or my Saitos
Old 05-12-2014, 05:48 AM
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So far I've only done elective wrenching on my HD, although I did install a new battery, two tires and one set of brake pads myself.

As to Saitos I've mostly worked on other peoples. I did install a new cylinder on my 1.50 and a set of bearings on my newly acquired 1.00.
Old 05-12-2014, 06:52 AM
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What would be a good glow equivalent to a DLE40 Twin? I have a 1/7th P-61 project, have the kit, and plans, and trying to decide on a power plant. The DLE40 so far comes in right about where I need it, but with the plugs and ignition it is just a hair too large for the cowl, so holes will be needed for clearance. If I could put a glow with CDI in it that provided the same or better power without sticking out, what would work? I am looking at maybe a 19x3 prop for it.
Old 05-12-2014, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
An FA-450R3 set up like that should make considerably more power than the 14% larger displacement "gasser" if tuned properly.

Comparing the results if a CDI/glow fuel FA-150 to an FG-30 gas engine can be used for comparison, the CDI/glow fuel version of the FA-450R3 should make about 10-12% more power than the slightly larger gas engine.

Fuel economy will be helped tremendously by the CDI conversion compared to GI.

As far as the mods I am doing?

Since the top end was totally trash on the FA-450R3 at I bought on the net, I am swapping FA-180 jugs W/FG-84R pistons to achieve the same displacement of 5.12 cu in or 84cc. The case deck will bill milled by 1mm to raise the CR to about 13:1. The pushrods will also be shortened a like amount. Ray will be doing that work in addition to the induction mod.

I have already modified my backplate for the larger 14mm gland nut of the FA-130-180 single cylinder engines to allow experimentation W/11mm, 12mm & the stock 19mm FA-450R3 carburetors.

I expect the power output to be as much as 40% higher than the Ray English FG-84R3. Considering the already substantial 7.75 HP output of the Ray English FG-84R3,the high compression nitro/methanol version W/Ray's mod should be staggering, perhaps exceeding 9 HP.
That's a lot of engine modification, I'm not going to take it that far myself. One of my FA-450's have 0 runtime, and the other reportedly only have 5 or 6 flights in addition to break in on the ground so it is in very good condition, I feel it would be silly to swap out all six cylinders assemblies when they are in this condition. I am going to limit myself to ignition and induction mods, I had a look at mounting a 180 carb but as that is a bit more than a bolt on job I think I'll leave it for now. Maybe just swap out the choke plate assembly with a velocity stack from a 150, that should bolt right up. I may also swap out the throttle barrel for a 150 barrel, it looks like saito added a brass bush in the 450 throttle barrel to reduce the bore from 10mm to 9mm, so it can either be bored out or swapped out for a 150 barrel that is 10mm bore as far as I know.
Old 05-12-2014, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Pondus
That's a lot of engine modification, I'm not going to take it that far myself. One of my FA-450's have 0 runtime, and the other reportedly only have 5 or 6 flights in addition to break in on the ground so it is in very good condition, I feel it would be silly to swap out all six cylinders assemblies when they are in this condition. I am going to limit myself to ignition and induction mods, I had a look at mounting a 180 carb but as that is a bit more than a bolt on job I think I'll leave it for now. Maybe just swap out the choke plate assembly with a velocity stack from a 150, that should bolt right up. I may also swap out the throttle barrel for a 150 barrel, it looks like saito added a brass bush in the 450 throttle barrel to reduce the bore from 10mm to 9mm, so it can either be bored out or swapped out for a 150 barrel that is 10mm bore as far as I know.

I think they spec the carburetor as 9.4mm on the FA-450R3.

Going to the 10 mm carb might not sound like a big difference, but it will have about 14% more cross sectional area so it would definitely give you a boost when coupled W/the induction mods.

To go to the bigger 11mm & 12mm carburetors you would need to machine for the 14mm gland nut then modify an FA-180 manifold which in itself is quite a chore. Given that you are not going W/the FA-180 pots & boosting compression, it probably wouldn't gain you anything.

A well tuned FA-450R3 W/ the Ray English induction mod & CDI/glow fuel will make lots of power. Probably in the neighborhood of 8 HP on 15% nitro. More if you want to tip more nitro into it. A little less if you want to go straight methanol/oil mix. I think on straight methanol it will make as much power as the Ray English modded FG-84R3.
Old 05-12-2014, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150

The only ones the Japs put out of business where the "Limeys". Harley Davidson is still going string W/their "V" twins & the Japs are copying them.
No offense, but AMF (Harley) was saved only through tough tariffs against the Japanese bikes imposed by President Reagan. AMF mismanaged H/D from day one of acquisition.

Nomex suit on. Nomex gloves. Goggles. Helmet. Ear plugs.
Old 05-12-2014, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by blw
...Nomex suit on. Nomex gloves. Goggles. Helmet. Ear plugs.
Hey, sounds like you're geared up to ride a Harley! Haw
Old 05-12-2014, 06:21 PM
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Maybe ya should make like Wile E Coyote and straddle an ACM rocket. You are all ready dressed for it.

Ken
Old 05-13-2014, 12:36 AM
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I've taken the easy option.I'm down in the basement with a full suit of bodyarmour and a 12 gauge streetsweeper.

It's all good fun sr.
Old 05-13-2014, 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by FNQFLYER
Old Fart, HHQ supplies a very neat book with each Saito it sells. It shows the correct type of and quantity of oil mix to be used along with a run in procedure, combined with safety measures to be followed. Thus endeth the sermon With regards to the windscreen thing, not as good as a hot electric glider fuselage going through successive garage doors or the Saito 120 going in one side of a Citroen DSM and out the otherside. But never the less I would guess a tad exciting. BTB what out for SHY over your way she and her mob are protesting about UAV's being operated in city parks.
I was pulling your leg a bit you wally

I've got a challenge for you...translate any saito engine manual you like into english! they have the weirdest way of explaining stuff sometimes.How much and what type of oil are you running in say your saito 65's? i'm normally run 10% nitro 10% klotz 200 synthetic and 3% castor.Plenty of oil coming out the breather and the crankcase has a big puddle of oil when you pull a backplate.No dry rockers now...how about that citroen??ps i'm not into uav's..the nitro/castor mix has me hooked,even use it in my fuel sometimes
Old 05-13-2014, 12:23 PM
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You should read the 170R3 manual. As far as I know, Saito only produced the xeroxed sheets with pidgen English. My copy is lost somewhere from the move several years ago.

yeah, but I was talking about the AMF company mostly. I've got my .410 revolver with hallway sweeper shells. The little wife made me buy the one with the little red light on it. Sr. knows his gun stuff too.

And what about that Citroen?

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