Notices
Glow Engines Discuss RC glow engines

Welcome to Club SAITO !

Old 02-06-2015, 05:32 AM
  #28626  
BJ64
 
BJ64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,505
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Neh - a Pyffon is only a pretend snake

BJ
Old 02-06-2015, 05:09 PM
  #28627  
SrTelemaster150
Senior Member
 
SrTelemaster150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Brasher Falls, NY
Posts: 3,904
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by FNQFLYER
Don't know about Saitos but from the observed first hand experience of others, reduction of oil content below that recommended by the manufacturer generally cause pain in the hip pocket nerve (resulting in the expenditure of hard earned cash). I've seen YS's in particular suffer terminal failure with a 5% reduction in oil content. The leaner you run an engine (getting more performance) the more you need the oil for lubrication and to a degree cooling. The only thing I mess with (seriously) in nitro content and apart from tests to destruction I have never had a catastrophic engine failure of any of my engines.
We are talking about CDI conversions, not glow ignition engines.
Old 02-07-2015, 07:51 AM
  #28628  
rm1963
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: rhinelander, WI
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I picked up a Saito FA65 at a garage sale, put a few drops of oil in the intake, down the pushrods,
and in the backcover vent. let set a while; if turns smooth and has compression.
I'm thinking of trying to start it, or should I or tear it down first.
Are these engines worth rebuilding, and are usable in today's world.
Old 02-07-2015, 08:05 AM
  #28629  
Hobbsy
My Feedback: (102)
 
Hobbsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 20,370
Likes: 0
Received 23 Likes on 23 Posts
Default

M, the Saito .65 is a fine engine, I'd say run it and if it turns a 13x6 at 9,700 or better it's a good one. Be careful that you didn't put enough oil down the carb to hydrolock it. Maybe ought to remove the glow plug and turn it upside down to make sure.

Last edited by Hobbsy; 02-07-2015 at 08:07 AM.
Old 02-07-2015, 08:28 AM
  #28630  
spaceworm
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Guilford, CT
Posts: 3,950
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by rm1963
I picked up a Saito FA65 at a garage sale, put a few drops of oil in the intake, down the pushrods,
and in the backcover vent. let set a while; if turns smooth and has compression.
I'm thinking of trying to start it, or should I or tear it down first.
Are these engines worth rebuilding, and are usable in today's world.
No, They are worthless. Just send it to me, I will pay the postage, And I will properly dispose of it.

PS, Don't listen to Hobbsy, but he does know what he is talking about.
Sincerely, Richard
Club Saito #635; Saito 56, 100, 120abc, 130T, 180
Old 02-07-2015, 08:31 AM
  #28631  
Hobbsy
My Feedback: (102)
 
Hobbsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 20,370
Likes: 0
Received 23 Likes on 23 Posts
Default

Hey Richard, do you still have that 1.30? That's another great engine.
Old 02-07-2015, 08:34 AM
  #28632  
Charley
My Feedback: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Kerrville, TX
Posts: 2,127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
We are talking about CDI conversions, not glow ignition engines.
Glow or CDI, the engine needs to be lubed. I think a good point is that some of the lube carries heat out the exhaust. Seems to me it's better to have too much than too little oil.

CR
Old 02-07-2015, 08:35 AM
  #28633  
Quikturn
My Feedback: (12)
 
Quikturn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: West Des Moines, IA
Posts: 932
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
Default

I still use a Saito 65 on my Kyosho P-40. It's on the heavy side for it displacement but it's a great running engine. It has the same power as a Saito 62 which I believe replaced it. Some airplanes balance better with heavier engines up front. Run it and enjoy it!
Old 02-07-2015, 08:42 AM
  #28634  
Hobbsy
My Feedback: (102)
 
Hobbsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Colonial Beach, VA
Posts: 20,370
Likes: 0
Received 23 Likes on 23 Posts
Default

http://sceptreflight.net/Model%20Eng...20FA-130T.html

Here is Clarence Lee's test of the 1.30. interestingly the 1.30 a rather high 12.8 to 1 compression ratio.
Old 02-07-2015, 08:48 AM
  #28635  
blw
My Feedback: (3)
 
blw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Opelika, AL
Posts: 9,447
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Dave- it was the Cruise-o-matic because it was a 3 speed. It's the only automatic he ever owned until he restored a suicide door Lincoln. My S-2000 is quicker accelerating to 130/140 mph but that Volvo would just keep accelerating past that. We never knew how fast it would go but nobody was going to catch it. Atlanta had a big race track at the time called the I-285 Perimeter. It was paved all the way around Atlanta, but not open yet. People would drive around the on ramp blockades at night and race wide open until tired of it. No rules, no traffic, no police, and no street lights.

That is funny about the Vega. I remember the 327/350 craze. That little car wasn't much more than a Coke can in the way of framework. No frame whatsoever with the Unibody build. Mine never burned oil, but the rubber timing belt was always off. I lived at the bottom of a slight hill. Every morning I would chug up the hill, stop, turn the distributor cap until it stopped pinging, and then drive it. I got to where I could retime it with a quick adjustment and leave the screw set snug, not tight on the cap.


Originally Posted by acdii
That was a Powerglide for the Chevy 2 speed. Had it in a Vega. Fastest the Vega did was 90 MPH and it took a while to get there. That is until a 350 was dropped in it, then it went much faster and got there much quicker. until the car bent.
Old 02-07-2015, 09:40 AM
  #28636  
Charley
My Feedback: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Kerrville, TX
Posts: 2,127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Cruise-O-Matic was a Ford-marketed Borg-Warner tranny. Vega originally had a 2-spd Powerglide auto; a 3-spd stick & a 4-spd stick made by Opel. Later, a US-made 4-spd was std, along with a 3-spd Turbo Hydro automatic. I could tell you a story about a '74 Vega I bought on spec.

CR
Old 02-07-2015, 10:02 AM
  #28637  
spaceworm
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Guilford, CT
Posts: 3,950
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Hobbsy
http://sceptreflight.net/Model%20Eng...20FA-130T.html

Here is Clarence Lee's test of the 1.30. interestingly the 1.30 a rather high 12.8 to 1 compression ratio.
Thank you Dave. Yes I still have it, and plan to fly it on a Sig 1/4 Spacewalker ll this spring, or sooner if I can fit skis to it. I had an invite from one of my VA clubs to fly Sunday as it is supposed to be 65 degrees F. We may hit the upper teens Sunday with snow here in CT.

Very best regards to You and Yours.

Richard
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Photo798.jpg
Views:	134
Size:	342.6 KB
ID:	2071167  

Last edited by spaceworm; 02-07-2015 at 10:14 AM. Reason: add photo
Old 02-07-2015, 01:46 PM
  #28638  
BJ64
 
BJ64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,505
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Do those short stubby wings create enough lift?

BJ
Old 02-07-2015, 02:44 PM
  #28639  
Cougar429
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Cougar429's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Tecumseh, ON, CANADA
Posts: 1,228
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Do those short stubby wings create enough lift?
Anything will fly with enough power. Just look to the F4 Phantom for a good example.

As for the Vagrant, that alloy engine never seemed to last long here. Funny thing, the same was true of the 2.6 Mits motor. Reliable in the States, but up in Canada burned more oil than gas. You could always tell what engine the Minivan had just watching the pipe.

Anyone remember the V8 Monza? Same basic frame as the Vagrant, (a LOT of stamped pieces all bolted together) but with all that weight the front fenders had a tendency to want to meet in the middle. I remember about the only way to set camber was a tow strap between the bottom ball joints to pull everything as close together before tightening all the bolts again. Unfortunately that did nothing about the fact the hood was now wedged shut!

I'll agree about the 65. If postage is less, send that worthless motor to me. I'll drop it in the box next to mine.
Old 02-07-2015, 03:12 PM
  #28640  
spaceworm
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Guilford, CT
Posts: 3,950
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by BJ64
Do those short stubby wings create enough lift?

BJ
Oh yeah, that is the clipped wing racing variant. With the Saito FA-130t it really rips. Lands a little hot though, have to come in on mains and bleed of speed 'til the tail drops. I have plug-in wing extensions for sport flying.

Richard
Old 02-08-2015, 03:23 AM
  #28641  
Rudolph Hart
 
Rudolph Hart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 4,383
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

I think the 62 outperforms the old 65 as does the newer 82 compared to the old 91.It's like when you get older you want things to stay the same but they hardly ever do.
Old 02-08-2015, 03:26 AM
  #28642  
Rudolph Hart
 
Rudolph Hart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 4,383
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by rm1963
I picked up a Saito FA65 at a garage sale, put a few drops of oil in the intake, down the pushrods,
and in the backcover vent. let set a while; if turns smooth and has compression.
I'm thinking of trying to start it, or should I or tear it down first.
Are these engines worth rebuilding, and are usable in today's world.
Start it and see what happens.
Old 02-08-2015, 04:46 AM
  #28643  
BJ64
 
BJ64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,505
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by spaceworm
... Lands a little hot though...
More like a brick then, huh?

BJ
Old 02-08-2015, 08:02 AM
  #28644  
spaceworm
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Guilford, CT
Posts: 3,950
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Old Fart
I think the 62 outperforms the old 65 as does the newer 82 compared to the old 91.It's like when you get older you want things to stay the same but they hardly ever do.
Some things get smaller and don't perform as good
Old 02-09-2015, 05:56 AM
  #28645  
SrTelemaster150
Senior Member
 
SrTelemaster150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Brasher Falls, NY
Posts: 3,904
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Charley
Gas is inherently oily. For those who don't believe it; pour some gas in a shallow pan & let it evaporate. Now rub your finger in the bottom of the pan. That shiny stuff now on your finger is oil.



The spark timing won't change but get it too lean for the atmospheric conditions & it will detonate.

CR
So, the methanol engine of similar displacement & design will flow about 40% more fuel/lube mix than the gas engine.

To keep things simple lets say that:

The gas engine uses 100oz of 5% lube mix fuel in 100 minutes of running. 95oz of gas, 5oz of oil.

The CDI Methanol engine uses 140oz of lube mix fuel in 100 minutes of run time. It is also running much cooler than the gas engine, about 60 F cooler in my experiments. 133oz of methanol, 7oz of oil.

You're telling me that 95oz of gasoline itself has more lubrication properties than the additional 2oz of oil & will protect an engine better that is running 60 F hotter & more prone to detonation due to the lower octane?

As far as the detonation issue?

A gas engine will produce about 98% of peak HP @ 12.8:1 A/F ratio that it produces @ maximum 14:1 A/F ratio. Altough I don't know the exact A/F ratios for methanol, it will make the same peak RPM for a rather broad range of HSN setting suggesting a likewise scenerio. Methanol is also much higher in relative octane than gasoline so it is even less prone to detonation when set on the rich side of peak power.

Unlike CDI, W/GI, as soon as the engine leans out, the ignition timeing advances. W/GI there is a double whammy as far as detonation that doesn't exist for CDI.

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 02-09-2015 at 06:47 AM.
Old 02-10-2015, 03:55 AM
  #28646  
Rudolph Hart
 
Rudolph Hart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 4,383
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
So, the methanol engine of similar displacement & design will flow about 40% more fuel/lube mix than the gas engine.

To keep things simple lets say that:

The gas engine uses 100oz of 5% lube mix fuel in 100 minutes of running. 95oz of gas, 5oz of oil.

The CDI Methanol engine uses 140oz of lube mix fuel in 100 minutes of run time. It is also running much cooler than the gas engine, about 60 F cooler in my experiments. 133oz of methanol, 7oz of oil.

You're telling me that 95oz of gasoline itself has more lubrication properties than the additional 2oz of oil & will protect an engine better that is running 60 F hotter & more prone to detonation due to the lower octane?

As far as the detonation issue?

A gas engine will produce about 98% of peak HP @ 12.8:1 A/F ratio that it produces @ maximum 14:1 A/F ratio. Altough I don't know the exact A/F ratios for methanol, it will make the same peak RPM for a rather broad range of HSN setting suggesting a likewise scenerio. Methanol is also much higher in relative octane than gasoline so it is even less prone to detonation when set on the rich side of peak power.

Unlike CDI, W/GI, as soon as the engine leans out, the ignition timeing advances. W/GI there is a double whammy as far as detonation that doesn't exist for CDI.
Listen pal i'm used to writing stupid funny and you are used to writing rude? if you don't stop it soon i'm going straight out the shed and handprop the big 220 single into life...your abcdef 180 will feel the vibrations all the way over there and be cringing in the cupboard,as it damn well should cheers pal

Last edited by Rudolph Hart; 02-10-2015 at 03:56 AM. Reason: less bs
Old 02-10-2015, 06:24 AM
  #28647  
SrTelemaster150
Senior Member
 
SrTelemaster150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Brasher Falls, NY
Posts: 3,904
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Old Fart
Listen pal i'm used to writing stupid funny and you are used to writing rude? if you don't stop it soon i'm going straight out the shed and handprop the big 220 single into life...your abcdef 180 will feel the vibrations all the way over there and be cringing in the cupboard,as it damn well should cheers pal
If I could afford it right now, I'd purchase an FA-220, raise the CR to about 13:1 & convert it to CDI & run it on 30% nitro. Your GI FA-220 would run & hide behind the shed once I fired it up!
Old 02-10-2015, 06:54 AM
  #28648  
spaceworm
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Guilford, CT
Posts: 3,950
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
If I could afford it right now, I'd purchase an FA-220, raise the CR to about 13:1 & convert it to CDI & run it on 30% nitro. Your GI FA-220 would run & hide behind the shed once I fired it up!
Very Interesting, but I have forgotten what this is all about. Is it Glow ignition vs CDI? Thanks.

Sincerely, Richard
Club Saito #635; Saito 56, 100, 120abc, 130T, 180
Old 02-10-2015, 07:53 AM
  #28649  
acdii
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Capron, IL
Posts: 9,981
Received 95 Likes on 86 Posts
Default

EGO's! LOL



I'll know when OF fires up his 220, there will be a disturbance in the Force!
Old 02-10-2015, 08:01 AM
  #28650  
SrTelemaster150
Senior Member
 
SrTelemaster150's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Brasher Falls, NY
Posts: 3,904
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by spaceworm
Very Interesting, but I have forgotten what this is all about. Is it Glow ignition vs CDI? Thanks.

Sincerely, Richard
Club Saito #635; Saito 56, 100, 120abc, 130T, 180
The original post was about reduced lube requirements for CDI (compared to GI) due to stable igntion timing & reduced likelyhood of detonation.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.