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Old 05-10-2013, 01:57 PM
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ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

Tom, several of the Saito needle valves are not needl;es at all, but are a sleeves that moves in and out over a cats eye in the spraybar. It indeed can be removed. Picture #1 is most likely what your 1.00 has and picture #2 is of an .80 LS needle.

Hobbsy,
Thanks fo the response. Yes, one my 100 it is a sleeve, but I didn't know if I could just unscrew it. I have removed it and made sure there in no obstructions.

My other question was to verify the factory setting when I reinstall it. The manual says flush with the throttle arm face, but I believe that may be wrong. I have the plastic throttle arm and I have read where the slotted head of the idle adjustment screw should be 1/16" below the surface of the PLASTIC throttle arm face?

Can you verify that?

Thanks
Tom
Old 05-10-2013, 03:28 PM
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ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150


ORIGINAL: hsukaria

How do you inject oil into the vent tube? Do you use a syringe or a squeeze bulb?

I bought a small plastic bottle of some sort of light oil several years ago.

It has a small tube within the spout tube that allows either inverted or upright dispensing depending on whether the inner end of the tube is pulled out to the spout or left @ the bottom of the bottle.

It is just the right size to insert into small fuel line tubing. I insert the tube into 1 end of the fuel line tubing & place the other end of the fule line tubing over the vent nipple. I then squeeze a few CCs of oil into the case as well as the ports.

I only use ARO when the engines are put up for the season or otherwise not going to be used for a while.

I use ATF.
I'm relatively new to Saitos and this forum. Could you translate ARO and ATF for me?

Rick...
Old 05-10-2013, 03:42 PM
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ARO After Run Oil, ATF Automatic Trans Fluid.
Old 05-10-2013, 04:41 PM
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Yes sir, its true, this picture is about where it will end up, no two are the same.

head of the idle adjustment screw should be 1/16" below the surface of the PLASTIC throttle arm face?
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:13 PM
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I finally got an FA450R3D!


Now, let's see how much HP I can get out of her W/CDI/Methanol & some extensive induction modification.

It should make over 6HP as it is W/15% Cool Power glow fuel W/C&H CDI ignition.

I just got 2 brand new 12mm BB carburetors. I for my standard CR FA180 CDI & This radial.

I'm going to try to @ least open up the case to induction & and increase the carburetor bore from OEM 10mm to 12mm.

Looking for about 6 1/2 to 7 HP of of her @ 35° BTDC ignition timing W/15% nitro/methanol.

We shall see!
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Old 05-13-2013, 02:22 PM
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Good to see some one else tinkering.  I try to acquire expired / damaged beyond economical repair enginesto provide parts for my experiments, let us know how you get on 
Old 05-14-2013, 04:15 AM
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You're such a tight^$se fnqgood luck sr looking forward to the updates mate,and some sound vid would be awesome.
Old 05-14-2013, 05:00 AM
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1st order of business is an incremental teardown W/checks along the way.

1: Remove the back cover & rockers to easier see which cylinder is off on compression as well as inspect for internal corrossion.

2:Squirt non-castor content glow fuel (Cool Power) into the ports, rocker areas & bearings to remove the castor gum & see if the draggy spots and/or compression improves.

3:Remove the pushrods from 1 cylinder @ a time to see if the draggy spots are cam related & identify which cam if that is the case.

4: Remove & inspct the cams

5: If the draggy spots still exist and/or there is corrosion evident, remove the crank for bearing replacement.

At the very least I will completly dismantle the top end to clean & lap the valves W/some automotive (paint) polishing compound. The polish will not affect the hard chrome seats, but it will clean any castor varnish from the seats.valves.
Old 05-14-2013, 11:12 AM
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Dan, this is a 20+ year old 1.50 cylinder with many hours and always fuel with castor, the seats cleaned up with a Q-tip and no solvent. Castor is not the bad thing people make it out to be. With your triple I would set the valves then run it for 20 minutes or so on my WildCat fuel and I guarantee it would run like a sewing machine after a few minutes. I don't know why I keep it, its busted. I have the valves laying here too.
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:01 PM
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ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

Castor is not the bad thing people make it out to be.
That's your opinion.

My experience has shown me otherwise.

Would you run an oil in your car engine that left sticky, gummy, varnish deposits?


SAITO DOES NOT RECOMMEND CASTOR! In the USA they say that castor oil is acceptable in small percentages, but no where do they RECOMMEND castor oil.

In Australia they specifically state NOT TO USE CASTOR OIL AT ALL.

I guess they are trying to apease those here in the states that insist on using castor oil even though it has nothing to offer when the engine is tuned properly.

I have had no corrosion problems even in my engines that were stored for 14 years after exclusive use of all synthetic Cool Power glow fuel.

Old 05-14-2013, 03:06 PM
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Do we need to use 15% nitro or can we go with 12.5 or 10%? I know the power will drop a bit but will it affect the idle or anything else? The price is not that much different $20.14, 19.90 & 18.67.

Can I use 2 stroke fuel and add oil? My club gets 55 gal drums of 15% 2 stroke fuel for $12.00 a gal.
Old 05-14-2013, 03:28 PM
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ORIGINAL: smkrcflyer

Do we need to use 15% nitro or can we go with 12.5 or 10%? I know the power will drop a bit but will it affect the idle or anything else? The price is not that much different $20.14, 19.90 & 18.67.

Can I use 2 stroke fuel and add oil? My club gets 55 gal drums of 15% 2 stroke fuel for $12.00 a gal.
What's the oil content in the "2 stroke fuel"?

16% lube will work in Saitos as long as there isn't too much castor content. Thats what Cool Power has & I've been using it form years.

10% nitro will also work.
Old 05-14-2013, 07:19 PM
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As we've seen here in the U.S., marketing drives engine manual content. The Australian manual was written by those folks for whatever reason. Castor isn't going to harm a Saito unless you do dumb stuff like fill it up and leave for years, etc. Castor will protect better than synthetics. Some varnish isn't a bad thing. There isn't anything good about ash from burnt up synthetic oils.
Old 05-14-2013, 07:51 PM
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To all,
The data we receive here in OZ comes directly from the factory.  As far as I know our distributor does not publish their own data as you guys get in the USA.  That being said I really like the Horizon Hobbies data on the gas engines.  Our data is a little light by comparison to yours
Old 05-15-2013, 04:25 AM
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ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150

ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

Castor is not the bad thing people make it out to be.
That's your opinion.

My experience has shown me otherwise.

Would you run an oil in your car engine that left sticky, gummy, varnish deposits?


SAITO DOES NOT RECOMMEND CASTOR! In the USA they say that castor oil is acceptable in small percentages, but no where do they RECOMMEND castor oil.

In Australia they specifically state NOT TO USE CASTOR OIL AT ALL.

I guess they are trying to apease those here in the states that insist on using castor oil even though it has nothing to offer when the engine is tuned properly.

I have had no corrosion problems even in my engines that were stored for 14 years after exclusive use of all synthetic Cool Power glow fuel.

Dan you are being amongst other things,impolite/unreasonable/and downright rude to boot.There's no justification for it so just quit will ya?
Old 05-15-2013, 04:46 AM
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ORIGINAL: Old Fart


ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150

ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

Castor is not the bad thing people make it out to be.
That's your opinion.

My experience has shown me otherwise.

Would you run an oil in your car engine that left sticky, gummy, varnish deposits?


SAITO DOES NOT RECOMMEND CASTOR! In the USA they say that castor oil is acceptable in small percentages, but no where do they RECOMMEND castor oil.

In Australia they specifically state NOT TO USE CASTOR OIL AT ALL.

I guess they are trying to apease those here in the states that insist on using castor oil even though it has nothing to offer when the engine is tuned properly.

I have had no corrosion problems even in my engines that were stored for 14 years after exclusive use of all synthetic Cool Power glow fuel.

Dan you are being amongst other things,impolite/unreasonable/and downright rude to boot.There's no justification for it so just quit will ya?

Hey guys

Let's try to take it easy. I guess we are all having our strong opinions on this or that what comes to this hobby. Correct me if I'm wrong (I may misunderstand nuances sometimes as English is not my first language) but I think Dan is just having a very strong opinion on what he things is the best oil / lubrucation component in the fuel for Saito engines. I did not notice his intention was being rude or something.


Old Fart, now this all being said I share your opinion that this forum should be a friendly environment. i appreciate that you raised that matter into discussion.

For all of us: Make model flying not war.

Artto

Old 05-15-2013, 04:58 AM
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ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150

ORIGINAL: smkrcflyer

Do we need to use 15% nitro or can we go with 12.5 or 10%? I know the power will drop a bit but will it affect the idle or anything else? The price is not that much different $20.14, 19.90 & 18.67.

Can I use 2 stroke fuel and add oil? My club gets 55 gal drums of 15% 2 stroke fuel for $12.00 a gal.
What's the oil content in the ''2 stroke fuel''?

16% lube will work in Saitos as long as there isn't too much castor content. Thats what Cool Power has & I've been using it form years.

10% nitro will also work.
The oil content in the 2 stroke fuel is 2% castor oil 16% Sny for a total of 18%. So it sounds like I can use this in my Saito engines. The fuel is S&W.
Old 05-15-2013, 05:38 AM
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ORIGINAL: blw

As we've seen here in the U.S., marketing drives engine manual content. The Australian manual was written by those folks for whatever reason. Castor isn't going to harm a Saito unless you do dumb stuff like fill it up and leave for years, etc. Castor will protect better than synthetics. Some varnish isn't a bad thing. There isn't anything good about ash from burnt up synthetic oils.
Castor CAN make valves stick.

The FA450R3D I just bought makes a distinctive "click" as one of the exhaust valves leaves the gummed up seat.

I had a similar "mystery noise" in my 1st Saito, an FA150. I finally surmized that it was the very same issue caused by Byron 4-stroke fuel that had castor content.

Eventually the exhaust lobe was wiped out on the cam. Was that cuased by the castor? Perhaps not, but valves sticking on the seats is not something that I want in my engines.

Horizon sent me a new cam. I have run Cool Power exclusively since & have never had any failures whatsoevr except for crask induced damage.
d
For what it's worth, if I remember correctly the original, circa 1997, Saito manual that came W/my FA150 recommended no castor. Perhaps "marketing" for the American market prompted them to change that secification.

Perhaps castor doen't do any harm, but from my experience, it serves no purpose & I would rather do W/O the gummy mess.

Castor is a good lubricant for ringless ABC engines.
Old 05-15-2013, 05:40 AM
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ORIGINAL: smkrcflyer


ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150

ORIGINAL: smkrcflyer

Do we need to use 15% nitro or can we go with 12.5 or 10%? I know the power will drop a bit but will it affect the idle or anything else? The price is not that much different $20.14, 19.90 & 18.67.

Can I use 2 stroke fuel and add oil? My club gets 55 gal drums of 15% 2 stroke fuel for $12.00 a gal.
What's the oil content in the ''2 stroke fuel''?

16% lube will work in Saitos as long as there isn't too much castor content. Thats what Cool Power has & I've been using it form years.

10% nitro will also work.
The oil content in the 2 stroke fuel is 2% castor oil 16% Sny for a total of 18%. So it sounds like I can use this in my Saito engines. The fuel is S&W.

That fuel will work, but watch your exhaust valves.

Old 05-15-2013, 05:50 AM
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There Helicopter fuels are a blend of two sny oil for a total of 16%.
Old 05-15-2013, 06:11 AM
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There Helicopter fuels are a blend of two sny oil for a total of 16%.
That should work too.
Old 05-15-2013, 06:31 AM
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But the Helicopter fuel cost $8.00 more a gallon because I can get the 2 cycle fuel for $12 from my club that gets a 55 gallon drum.
Old 05-15-2013, 07:13 AM
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ORIGINAL: smkrcflyer

But the Helicopter fuel cost $8.00 more a gallon because I can get the 2 cycle fuel for $12 from my club that gets a 55 gallon drum.

Then use the 2-stroke fuel.

3% castor isn't going to cause drastic problems. Just check the exhuast ports @ the end of the season for excessive carbon build-up & squirt some ATF or other ARO in the ports to prevent valve sticking.

Castor isn't a death sentence or anything, it's just not neccessary IMO & I would rather avoid the sticky, gummy deposits. When there is substatial savings such as in your case, run the $12 a gallon fuel. That is an excellent reason to run 3% castor in your case.
Old 05-15-2013, 07:17 AM
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ORIGINAL: Old Fart


ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150

ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

Castor is not the bad thing people make it out to be.
That's your opinion.

My experience has shown me otherwise.

Would you run an oil in your car engine that left sticky, gummy, varnish deposits?


SAITO DOES NOT RECOMMEND CASTOR! In the USA they say that castor oil is acceptable in small percentages, but no where do they RECOMMEND castor oil.

In Australia they specifically state NOT TO USE CASTOR OIL AT ALL.

I guess they are trying to apease those here in the states that insist on using castor oil even though it has nothing to offer when the engine is tuned properly.

I have had no corrosion problems even in my engines that were stored for 14 years after exclusive use of all synthetic Cool Power glow fuel.

Dan you are being amongst other things,impolite/unreasonable/and downright rude to boot.There's no justification for it so just quit will ya?
I'm just stating facts & my thoughts on why Horizon saw fit to chnge the original lube spec's such as was in my 1997 FA150 Manual.

Just because my opinions/facts don't support yours doesn't make me rude, unreasonable or impolite.
Old 05-15-2013, 08:01 AM
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ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150


ORIGINAL: Old Fart


ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150

ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

Castor is not the bad thing people make it out to be.
That's your opinion.

My experience has shown me otherwise.

Would you run an oil in your car engine that left sticky, gummy, varnish deposits?


SAITO DOES NOT RECOMMEND CASTOR! In the USA they say that castor oil is acceptable in small percentages, but no where do they RECOMMEND castor oil.

In Australia they specifically state NOT TO USE CASTOR OIL AT ALL.

I guess they are trying to apease those here in the states that insist on using castor oil even though it has nothing to offer when the engine is tuned properly.

I have had no corrosion problems even in my engines that were stored for 14 years after exclusive use of all synthetic Cool Power glow fuel.

Dan you are being amongst other things,impolite/unreasonable/and downright rude to boot.There's no justification for it so just quit will ya?
I'm just stating facts & my thoughts on why Horizon saw fit to chnge the original lube spec's such as was in my 1997 FA150 Manual.

Just because my opinions/facts don't support yours doesn't make me rude, unreasonable or impolite.
If all caps is shouting then read what you've capitalized. You've certainly expressed your opinion every time the subject comes up. For what it is worth here is my experiences - I've been running 3% castor for 5 years in my 4 strokes with zero problems.
John

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