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Old 05-15-2013, 08:26 AM
  #24826  
Quikturn
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

If castor is a concern for long term storage how about running all synthetic for the last flight of the season?
Old 05-15-2013, 09:02 AM
  #24827  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !



New to this Saito club, even though I did have a .45 on my Sig Kadet Senior about 15 years ago. 
  I just bought a FA 45 for $33 that needs some work.  The cylinder hold down tab on the left front is broken off and it was welded to the block.  The prop drive washer has a crack through it, so I'll probably just replace that.
  I'm planning to use this on an airboat I bought for $40.  So this should be a cheap, fun boat!



Any tips for checking out a used motor, to make sure it's good to go?

Old 05-15-2013, 11:12 AM
  #24828  
SrTelemaster150
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


ORIGINAL: Quikturn

If castor is a concern for long term storage how about running all synthetic for the last flight of the season?

Why not run synthetic all the time?
Old 05-15-2013, 12:33 PM
  #24829  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Hey, everytime there is an argument about oil, somebody posts the video with the deer chomping on popcorn. Does somebody have it and post it here? It is getting entertaining with the oil.
Old 05-15-2013, 12:47 PM
  #24830  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

When one guy tries to go backward from the crowd he soon disappears and is not even noticed.


H-man, you think we discuss oil here you should see the oil discussions over at the Sportster section of the HDFora, they are wars. There is much more agreement here. Just a dissenter or two.
Old 05-15-2013, 02:33 PM
  #24831  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I followed a discussion (argument) about oil in another thread and it ended up having several animals chomping on popcorn, deer, panda, I think a chimp too. Keeps it entertaining.

Just to throw fuel to the fire, (this probably belongs to another thread), but as far as synthetics go, isn't PAG used in the USA? How about the new Ester oils that are now being sold in auto stores? Would they work on a Saito (and other hobby engines)? I think the Esters are sometimes used in Europe.
Old 05-15-2013, 02:54 PM
  #24832  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150


ORIGINAL: Quikturn

If castor is a concern for long term storage how about running all synthetic for the last flight of the season?

Why not run synthetic all the time?
I see what you're saying but for those who insist on using castor for extra protection or whatever can clear it out with a tank of full synthetic before storage to avoid the gumming issue.
Old 05-15-2013, 03:08 PM
  #24833  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

When one guy tries to go backward from the crowd he soon disappears and is not even noticed.
It's not surprising to see a post like that from you.

Just because someone doesn't go W/"the crowd" doesn't mean he is going backwards.

If you "follow" the crowd, you'll be just that, a follower. And furthermore, like my posts or not, I doubt I am disappearing & not being noticed. Unless of course I am banned (as has been threatened) for "not going along with the crowd".

That's something that I've noticed about this forum. (Club Saito) If your ideas differ from "the crowd" they are frowned upon.

Kinda like the Saito valve lash subject.

If people want to run castor oil in their Saitos then fine. They might never have an issue. Point is, symthetics work just as well under adult, competant use W/O the gunmmy mess in the engine.

Fact is, except for the allowance (not recommendation) for small percentages of castor oil in Horizon's spec's, Castor is not recommended by the Saito factory & when I bought my FA 150 back in '97, castor was specifically not recommended.

Everytime the subject of Cool Power comes up there are posts about how "Cruel Power" damages engines by folks that proably never ran it for any length of time. Last time I looked in my Saito manual Cool Power was recommended by name.

So if people will kindly refrain from jumping on the "how much better castor oil is than synthetic for Saitos" bandwagon everytime I mention my dislike for the side affects of castor use, I will refrain from pointing out the facts.
Old 05-15-2013, 04:52 PM
  #24834  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

To add a small thing here.  As you all probably I am a competition freek, I like to extract the most from my engines.  I use synthetic oils because they are the most suitable for my applications.  Cost doesn't enter into the equation..  I use high performance synthetic oils in my model engines the same as I use similar type in my racing care engines. 
The point I would like to make here is that what ever the "lubricant" I usually use 20% oil nitro to be negotiated (depending on the use intended for the engine) and I do not run the engine on te screaming side of lean.  Most of then "lubrication problems I have come across have been from lean runs with standard oil levels (20$ or less).  If I am going to the extreme I invest in the high viscosity synthetic oils and up the oil content to approx 25%.  Its all about the oil that actually gets to the bearings etc and then stays ther after the days flying.
Please consider these points in your on going discussins
Old 05-15-2013, 05:56 PM
  #24835  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I don't jump on the pro castor bandwagon, I've been on it since 1989. It has never been a problem of any kind.
Old 05-15-2013, 08:57 PM
  #24836  
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Is it just me or are the HorizonHobby's Saito specs Re; RPM grossly exaggerated?

I have been told that the APC composite props turn faster than the MAS or Zinger wood props, but I can't believe that there is as HUGE of a difference as I am experiencing.

I just finished breaking in a NIB FA-200ti per Hobbsy's method, as I have with all of my Saitos. Now I am only getting peaks of 7900-8100 rpm on a Zinger 16x8 or 7200-7300 on a MAS 17x8. HH specs this engine at 8900 with an APC 17x8. Is this what I should expect?

It has MONSTER compression on both cylinders now compared to before break-in(as expected) and the valves have been properly re-adjusted. Using fresh gallon of 10% nitro with 18% synth/castor blend. Running H9 4c Super Plugs in all four holes. LS has been adjusted and transition is good. Gets a 1900 +/-rpm consistant and dependable idle with no dropped cylinder or flame-outs.

I also popped the rod covers off the bottom to check out the bearings for any corrosion that may have happened since purchasing it a few years back. Looked good, as expected, since I nearly drowned the thing with SeaFoam ARO and put it in a ziplok bag with a dessicant pack before shelving it over the past couple years.

Does this sound right?

Thanks Guys!

BTW...I like castor too[&:]



Club Saito Member #770


edit; grammer and sp
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:03 PM
  #24837  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Dessicant pack in with the engine drowned with ARO will be interesting,
I have found APC props generally turn faster than MAS etc.  Don't use wooden props they break easy and don't give fly wheel effect when needed.  Compression build up after run in normal, is desired situation.  Why don't you run Saito plugs??
Old 05-15-2013, 10:12 PM
  #24838  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

The d-pac usually gets oil soaked after a while, but at that point it has already done it's job and locked up any humidity sealed in the bag. I just recently took this engine out for breakin; purchased in 2011. Wood props do break a lot easier and on the warbirds it's easier to replace a few $20 props than it is to repair a torn up firewall after a few nose overs at our rough field.

Yes, the Hobbsy method really does a good job on seating the rings well and all of my Saitos have great compression. I mentioned that the compression was good to rule out leaking valves or scored piston/cyl issues. Came with the H9 plugs from the LHS and they have always seemed to do fine in the past. Some of the other Saitos came with the Saito plug and they do good as well.

Just really concerned that this particular engine seems really doggy compared to the specs. Or I may just have had an unrealistic expectation of high mid 8K with the 17x8 MAS or Zinger. Low 8k on the 161x8 is terrible, I think...or am I expecting too much?
Old 05-16-2013, 04:03 AM
  #24839  
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Horizon typically runs their engines on 30% nitro fuel. They used to recommend it but few people actually used it.

Here is a test by Clarence Lee http://sceptreflight.net/Model%20Eng...0FA-200Ti.html

I tried to copy and paste the prop numbers but they are protected.

15x10===9.000
16x6====9.400
16x8====8.700
16x10===8,300
18x6====7,700
18x8====7,100

These numbers were obtained using 15% Omega with 4 oz castor added.
Old 05-16-2013, 04:46 AM
  #24840  
SrTelemaster150
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

ORIGINAL: frets24

Is it just me or are the HorizonHobby's Saito specs Re; RPM grossly exaggerated?

I have been told that the APC composite props turn faster than the MAS or Zinger wood props, but I can't believe that there is as HUGE of a difference as I am experiencing.

I just finished breaking in a NIB FA-200ti per Hobbsy's method, as I have with all of my Saitos. Now I am only getting peaks of 7900-8100 rpm on a Zinger 16x8 or 7200-7300 on a MAS 17x8. HH specs this engine at 8900 with an APC 17x8. Is this what I should expect?

It has MONSTER compression on both cylinders now compared to before break-in(as expected) and the valves have been properly re-adjusted. Using fresh gallon of 10% nitro with 18% synth/castor blend. Running H9 4c Super Plugs in all four holes. LS has been adjusted and transition is good. Gets a 1900 +/-rpm consistant and dependable idle with no dropped cylinder or flame-outs.

I also popped the rod covers off the bottom to check out the bearings for any corrosion that may have happened since purchasing it a few years back. Looked good, as expected, since I nearly drowned the thing with SeaFoam ARO and put it in a ziplok bag with a dessicant pack before shelving it over the past couple years.

Does this sound right?

Thanks Guys!

BTW...I like castor too[&:]



Club Saito Member #770


edit; grammer and sp
I'm a bit disappointed in the numbers I am seeing for the 200Ti.

The FA200Ti is supposed to meke 3 HP, a bit more than an FA180.

My stock FA180 spun an 18 X 8 Dynathrust prop @ 8000 RPM.

Your numbers are relecting less than 2HP.

Unfortunately, that seems to be the norm.

Since the CR on that engine is very high, I susoect that it need more carbutetor.

I am planning on powering an 83" Brian Taylor MK-II Spitfire W/my FA200Ti & I am starting to wonder if it will be adequate.
Old 05-16-2013, 04:52 AM
  #24841  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


ORIGINAL: frets24

Is it just me or are the HorizonHobby's Saito specs Re; RPM grossly exaggerated?

I have been told that the APC composite props turn faster than the MAS or Zinger wood props, but I can't believe that there is as HUGE of a difference as I am experiencing.

I just finished breaking in a NIB FA-200ti per Hobbsy's method, as I have with all of my Saitos. Now I am only getting peaks of 7900-8100 rpm on a Zinger 16x8 or 7200-7300 on a MAS 17x8. HH specs this engine at 8900 with an APC 17x8. Is this what I should expect?

It has MONSTER compression on both cylinders now compared to before break-in(as expected) and the valves have been properly re-adjusted. Using fresh gallon of 10% nitro with 18% synth/castor blend. Running H9 4c Super Plugs in all four holes. LS has been adjusted and transition is good. Gets a 1900 +/-rpm consistant and dependable idle with no dropped cylinder or flame-outs.

I also popped the rod covers off the bottom to check out the bearings for any corrosion that may have happened since purchasing it a few years back. Looked good, as expected, since I nearly drowned the thing with SeaFoam ARO and put it in a ziplok bag with a dessicant pack before shelving it over the past couple years.

Does this sound right?

Thanks Guys!

BTW...I like castor too[&:]



Club Saito Member #770


edit; grammer and sp

How about a video with audio with the FA-200 Ti running? It must be an awesome sound with the offset cylinders. What is the firing sequence? Is it an alternate firing twin, or a double hit and then 540 degrees of just rotation? Thanks.

Richard/Club Saito #635/FA-100/120/130T/180

Old 05-16-2013, 04:58 AM
  #24842  
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Here ya go Richard, this should splain it all.

http://sceptreflight.net/Model%20Eng...0FA-200Ti.html

Let me know when you're coming back down to Va. for a few days, we can try to squeeze in a visit.
Old 05-16-2013, 05:29 AM
  #24843  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Hi mate thats why i run less oil in mine and castor helps.The higher percentage oil ratio you run causes more drag internally so less performance.
Old 05-16-2013, 05:38 AM
  #24844  
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Dan my man get out of the house for a bit and get a good whiif of fresh air into your lungs,failing that at least a hint of arkansis(sp) polio weed,do you the world of good.
Old 05-16-2013, 05:55 AM
  #24845  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

ORIGINAL: spaceworm


How about a video with audio with the FA-200 Ti running? It must be an awesome sound with the offset cylinders. What is the firing sequence? Is it an alternate firing twin, or a double hit and then 540 degrees of just rotation? Thanks.

Richard/Club Saito #635/FA-100/120/130T/180

The FA200Ti is even firing. The crankthrows are offset 30° so both cylinders are @ TDC @ the same time.

The cams are timed so that the compression strokes are 360° apart.

That is why it will be so easy to convert to CDI.

A standard twin cylinder module W/a single hall sensor/magnet will fire both plugs once every 360°.

I've already checked this out & it was one of the reasons that I chose this engine. I was able to confirm all this when I got one of my own.
Old 05-16-2013, 05:57 AM
  #24846  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


ORIGINAL: SrTelemaster150

ORIGINAL: frets24

Is it just me or are the HorizonHobby's Saito specs Re; RPM grossly exaggerated?

I have been told that the APC composite props turn faster than the MAS or Zinger wood props, but I can't believe that there is as HUGE of a difference as I am experiencing.

I just finished breaking in a NIB FA-200ti per Hobbsy's method, as I have with all of my Saitos. Now I am only getting peaks of 7900-8100 rpm on a Zinger 16x8 or 7200-7300 on a MAS 17x8. HH specs this engine at 8900 with an APC 17x8. Is this what I should expect?

It has MONSTER compression on both cylinders now compared to before break-in(as expected) and the valves have been properly re-adjusted. Using fresh gallon of 10% nitro with 18% synth/castor blend. Running H9 4c Super Plugs in all four holes. LS has been adjusted and transition is good. Gets a 1900 +/-rpm consistant and dependable idle with no dropped cylinder or flame-outs.

I also popped the rod covers off the bottom to check out the bearings for any corrosion that may have happened since purchasing it a few years back. Looked good, as expected, since I nearly drowned the thing with SeaFoam ARO and put it in a ziplok bag with a dessicant pack before shelving it over the past couple years.

Does this sound right?

Thanks Guys!

BTW...I like castor too[&:]



Club Saito Member #770


edit; grammer and sp
I'm a bit disappointed in the numbers I am seeing for the 200Ti.

The FA200Ti is supposed to make 3 HP, a bit more than an FA180.

My stock FA180 spun an 18 X 8 Dynathrust prop @ 8000 RPM.

Your numbers are relecting less than 2HP.

Unfortunately, that seems to be the norm.

Since the CR on that engine is very high, I susoect that it need more carbutetor.

I am planning on powering an 83'' Brian Taylor MK-II Spitfire W/my FA200Ti & I am starting to wonder if it will be adequate.
Old 05-16-2013, 02:07 PM
  #24847  
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Old fart did you note that I said I up the oil content with a lower viscosity oil, this reduces the drag co efficient of the increased oil  percentage.  It is all  a balancing act really and for all practical purpose I use the you beaut heli oil put out by Knlotz (used in 30$ Powermaster) and vary the nitro content according to what performance.  Both my old flying mate and I don't keep much "go juice" around preferring to mix either on the day or day before what we expect to use for a days flying, putting te residual aside for another day, use as weed killer or just running engines.  This move is really showing up my hoarding habits.  I have just filled another 50 Litre storage box with Dubro style hardware.  I have 8 of those boxes full of boxed engines with a few more to pack and I have found at least 10 unfinished projects (Engines and a/frames) that will travel south.  Shed is a mess but we are getting there
Old 05-16-2013, 02:13 PM
  #24848  
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FNQ, I was just reading the Clarence Lee test of my old Saito .80, he noted that the piston to wall clearance is .001" when in many other brands it is as high as .004". He thinks its because the cylinder and the piston are made from aluminum of the same recipe. Thin oil would actually be an advantage in a tight situation. Thick oil would shear down and leave bare spots.
Old 05-16-2013, 02:26 PM
  #24849  
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ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

Here ya go Richard, this should splain it all.

http://sceptreflight.net/Model%20Eng...0FA-200Ti.html

Let me know when you're coming back down to Va. for a few days, we can try to squeeze in a visit.

Hi Dave, Thanks for the link. The 130T is still in VA so you may see it yet. Maybe end of May early June.
Old 05-16-2013, 02:46 PM
  #24850  
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Sounds great. Thanks

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