Mine also seems to be void of trim tape. Anti-rotation pins for the stabs are also in the wrong place. QA of the stab hardware also leaves a lot to be desired.



Phil

There was an obvious seam along the carbon tube, so I needed to sand it - lots of black mess, yuk. Even then it wouldn't fit.

In the end I got a dremel with a small and very worn 120 grit sander lightly ran it around the inside to take out the imperfections in the tubes in both the fuselage and the stab halves. It probably a bit aggresive so go easy - it makes very light work of it.

Phil

Had my test flight today. Not only is there no way to get to the recommended throws on the Elevators, but nor can you get there on the ailerons. We severely modified the elevators just to get 40 degrees down. Manual says you can get 50 deg. Now I see we need to do the same for the ailerons. This is a serious flaw in the bird. They need to fix this before they ship anymore. But they won’t so I guess it is up to us to come up with modifications. Clearly CA does not care that the model can not deliver anywhere near the throws that the manual says it can without big modifications. Even then it will not fully.
Other then the throw issues, she flies pretty well. Only 1 flight so far, it is was just a shake out. Will know more after this weekend.

I know 1 thing. I am a horsepower junkie, and the DA 50 on this bird is over the top. Love that DA.

If anyone else is that far yet, I sure would like to here what Max throws your getting form El and Ail ?

Hi Jeff

The pics of the pipe are from Maurice's 2x2. It's the 2x2 one the German CA-site. Our rep. Florian Wigger has put them online. There's also a movie of the first testrun with this 2x2.

[link=http://www.composite-arf-world.de/ea2x2-da50.htm]http://www.composite-arf-world.de/ea2x2-da50.htm[/link]

It's also Maurice who came up with the idea of adjusting the header. It's true that the pipe is at an angle, but i think it's acceptable. We noticed the problem when we tried to install the pipe and header so we had to work with what we had, altough we ordered them from MTW via CA....so they knew it was for the 2x2...

First flight has not been made yet, we're still waitin' for some LONGGO batteries, maybe next weekend. Checkout the German CA-site for an update....

Jeff, geuss you didn't try to 3D the 2x2 on first flight. I also hope there's enough throw in the elevator & ailerons to do some FunFly. For now i only got 30° down on the elevators. Should be enough for first flight, we'll just have to see how she flies...let us know what you think!

1 Q, did you you use some sort of silent blocks with the DA50, or did you mount it straight onto the firewall?

Gr Gaaaz

Well we had a full day of flying the 2X2 yesterday. Plan to do the same today. On the bright side, this thing actually weighs just a bit less then 15 pounds. I can’t believe it. We even used some pretty heavy 4 inch air filled Dubro main wheels, and a heavy duty tail wheel. (be careful putting a tail gear control spring in the rudder. It will split, we control ours from the rudder pull pull couplings). We also use a pretty heavy battery setup ( 2 x 1950 NM, plus a 1 x 1100 on eng). Anyway it is indeed light.

It flies very true. Not one bit of trim anywhere. It is going to be a great IMAC and Pattern ship.

Regarding 3D, well it has enough power. It is light enough, wing loading is low. But the Throws ??? Not enough. At least for all out 3D. Needs more down on Elv and more down on Ail. On the Elv, we have already modified the El to get more down. We are getting about 60 mm down. 85 mm would be 45 deg and that is what we need. Not having enough down on the el only effects a few 3D moves, like forward tumbles and waterfalls. It will do inverted flat spins but even that move would benefit from more down elv.

For the ail throws, we can only get 50 mm down (up is fine on both ail and elv). For most moves it is fine. But for you hovering freaks out there, it takes full ail to stop the torque roll.

We will keep looking for a solution for the throws.

On the exhaust, we have the can resting on that bulkhead cutout. Put some fuel tubing on it to rest on. It is a bit loose so we then put a U bolt over the top of the can, just behind the bulkhead and ran the bolts through the landing gear. It’s tight. Now I am still running the header they (CA) sent us. There is no drop so there is an angle at the Teflon tube. As the folks at DA warned about, any angle on the tubing can be a problem. I am already getting some leakage. I am going to try and get a 3 piece header, get the drop without an angle, then have it soldered.

Question ??? Do there composite fuselages cause radio interference ? I have my antenna inside a plastic tube running down the inside of the fuse. My rang check is a bit short and I am have some radio reception issues. Transmitting and Receiver where just fully checked out by Futaba. (actually Radio South).

Oh yea, the settings in the book are a bit high for low rates. Too high for landings. I adjusted the ails to Low, Med, High, 30mm, 40mm, 50mm. (again 50 mm was the most we could get Down from the ails). For Elv, Low, Med, High, 20mm, 40mm, 60mm. (again 60 mm was the most we could get Down from the elv).

Even at med, with full elv, it does snap.

But landings a easy. Floats great. Has not wanted to snap or tip stall on landings yet. Biggest problem on landing so far is slowing it down. Need to start approached lower. Not much drag I guess. Something about this bird it just time for it to slow down.

I can’t say enough for the DA. We have not touched the stock carb settings yet. Starts and Runs GREAT !

Overall flight rating, Great IMAC and Pattern. Good for basic and Medium 3D. Extreme 3D undetermined. Will require significant throw modifications. Not sure it is possible but still working. If anyone gets 45 Degrees down from Elv and Ail, please let me know how.

Jeff
Thanks for the news on your first flights, what CG position are you using ?


Tony

At the Tail heavy end of the range given in the book. Once I get a few more flights with low fuel to see how it handels witht the tank empty, then I will start move the CG to make it more tail heavy. I was surprized that to get the CG in the range of what the book says, you have to put the batteries up front. Ours are in front on the fuel tank. Even as we move the CG back, I am sure it will still be in front of the tank. We made a platform on the top of the fuse and strapped them down. Plaform is large enough to let us move the batts about 6 inches as needed.

I may have to reconsider using Li-Po's if you need a fair amount of weight up front.

Tony

Jeff, from your description it sounds like the 2x2 flies just like its larger brothers. You definately have to use a pattern landing technique if you have no headwind. Regarding the CG, the world's top pilots fly the best 3D with pattern balance. The secret is skill and practice. A couple years ago I tried to find the "secret" CG spot - further back I went, the less stable the plane was with little improvement in 3D. However, everyone has to learn for himself.
Composite/fibergalss fuse's have little effect on radio reception. Most guys I see use the same antenna-in-tube technique you describe.
Keep the reports up - my 2x2 should be in the air next weekend.

If it flys like my old EXCESS - it should be really super - it sure looks familiar.
That design was an orphan - neither scale or pattern.
No one gives a f--- about that anymore .
If I was to do one again I would make huge ailerons and elevetar and cut in more rudder
Also make it so things swing 45 degrees each way .
Bring it along next time you get a chance to come up .
At the moment , we are flying Knuffels ---good model for cold weather .
no assembly required--------

Hey Dick. The 2.3's really track and lock like the Excess. With the stretch the 2X2 should be even getter - that's why it chose it over the Wild Hare - another locked on flier. Anyway, gunna be fun watching the 3D jockys trying to deal with the stretch.
I'll bite - what's a Knuffel?

I got it landing great. No problem. Just have to trust it will will fly slow. And dah, high / low fuel CG the same. Tank near CG. Today we gang banged the 2x2. One of the best pilots I know. Any heli heads out there know Erik Larson. He is the best Heli and Plank Pilot I know. He flew and had the same opinion. Great but needs more Elv and Ail Deflection. I will work on that this week and try again next weekend.

Knuffel is a small foamie design by a German kid - really a great setup -
we use 25 buck CD rewinds and all up are under 6 ounces inc batts- they are the best 3D foamies we have tried -

By the way, bravo to my builder, Serge Lavigne. He did a great job. This build job was not straight forward. Several modifications required. If anyone needs a good builder let me know. I will put you in contact with Serge. We are just north of Atlanta. Members of CCRC. Serge is the President.

Correction.

I previously stated that my 2X2 with the DA 50 came in at a total 15 lbs. Well I was wrong. After recalculating the weight of the fuel that was in it, the plane actually weighs right at 16 lbs (without fuel).

So with a wing area of 1140 (assuming that is correct, someone in this forum said that is what it is) that puts the wing loading at 32.36 oz per SF ? I think this is correct.

Again this is with 2 X 1950 main batts, 1 eng batt, heavy 4 inch dubro main tires and a heavy tail wheel setup.

With the CG just behind the rear most recommended CG, it does not fly heavy. Just needs lots more Elv and Ail throws.

I'm going to be moving to Cartersville Ga in a couple of months. I have a 1/3 scale pitts that I need someone to test fly. Is Serge available for that sort of thing?

Jeff, sounds like tpyical CA weights and loading - appear overweight but fly beautiful, but not floaters like Dick Hanson's planes. Mine is 8lb 4oz without motor, batteries and elevator/rudder servos.
Looking at the stab, I can see how to increase down throws. One of the guys here experimented with a spare 2.6 wing just to see what he could accomplish. He cut back the trailing edge of the lower wing surface so there was no interference with down travel - ended up with more throw than you could access with normal CA control horns. The gap is easily sealed with mylar gap seal the sail planes use. You would also need to cut a notch for the elevator control horn.

Extra Pilot

Come on out to CCRC. Serge probably would. I do more then my share as well as many others, It is a big club, about 300 members. Plenty of help.

On the Elv throw, That is all we could think of as well. Going to try it.

Thanks

300 members??!!! That's not a club, that's an army, or air force. You must have quite an annual budget. I suppost guys with odd and even AMA numbers fly on alternating days? Would think you would need a field like the old Mile Square in LA for that size crowd.

It is the nicest facility I have ever seen, and I have seen alot.

Finished! 14lbs 11oz with ZDZ 40, Bisson pitts, 9oz of batteries. Balanced at back of range with batteries just ahead of gear mount, but flies tail heavy in a 10mph breeze. Performance beyond unlimited even with questionable prop and burning about .5 oz a minute so I can easily cut 8oz off the CG by lowering the vent line in the tank. A floater - dead sticked first flight! Going to be a winner for us IMAC/pattern types.[

Building pics of the 2x2 now online under the REVIEW section of the German Composite Website !!!
Also a video of the First flight under the DOWNLOAD section.

[link=http://www.composite-arf-world.de/]http://www.composite-arf-world.de/[/link]

Enjoy

Gaaaz

Swwwwwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeett new scheme!!!...

Rgds,
Mark

I saw at the www.composite-arf-world.de video of Jason Shulman flying 2.3 Extra with g62 on canister. G62 seems to be really powerful engine and a good choice for 2.3 Extra.