Especially EdwardB, Cybertom and John (but any and all ideas welcomed from anyone):

Specific numbered questions follow below, after "Background".

BACKGROUND

Am considering a Flair Moth build and my first engine choice is the Desert Air DA 50 R (50 cc) gas engine rather than the Laser 150 or 180 glow for several reasons.

DA-50-R is newer, computer designed, spark ignition (better reliability), recommended by Toni-Clark.com models in Germany, produces much less fuel residue, eliminates hgroscopic and toxicity fuel issues, and probably would eliminate the need to add much if any nose weight (more below on weight). My philosophy for the "big moth" is to put the "added nose weight" into engine power if possible.

Other issue is my 9750 foot above sea level Nordic ski center parking lot, my flying site (in summer and fall) 10 minutes from my home (live to Nordic ski).

According to Richard Shelquist's website

http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_da_rh.htm

this Nordic flying site has about 26% less density altitude and produces 29% less relative horsepower for a normally aspirated engine than Cybertom, EdwardB and other fellows who fly more or less at sea level. These numbers come from a typical summer day basis Gainesville, Florida, the Spring site my son and I fly at. The huge bipe wing area of the Flair Moth, light construction and wing loading make the plane a strong candidate for my altitude up here.

Lift is proportional to density altitude, but proportional to the square of velocity. For example, if moth stall speed is 25 MPH in Ohio, it's 28 MPH (3 MPH of additional speed) up here, which is a negligible increase. But my engine power rating has to be 29% higher than sea level fliers. Another good reason for the DA-50-R, which Desert Air says is for a 14 to 18 pound aircraft.

Need to know if the DA - 50 R will fit under the Moth's fiber-glass cowl.

Height from crankshaft center to top of head for the DA 50 R is 5.49 inches or 139.4 mm.

Width of DA 50 R cylinder is 3.77 inches or 96 mm.

Length, distance from thrust washer to back edge of engine mount is 6.7 inches or 170mm.

Unfortunately, for Laser 150 I could only find height (from crankshaft center to cylinder head top): 3.97 inches or 101 mm.

QUESTIONS

1) Given the numbers above, would the DA 50 R (inverted) fit within the Moth fiber- glass cowl? The biggest concern is whether the width of the DA 50 R head is too large.

2) The Laser 150 weighs 29.5 Oz, and the DA 50 R (with mounts) weighs 50 Oz, a difference of 20 .5 Oz or 1.28 Lbs. EdwardB, can you tell me fairly precisely how much lead weight you had to add to the nose of your Moth (with Laser 150 in place) to get proper CG, and whether it was close to 21 Oz?

3) I gather that there are "engine bearers", wooden rails installed for the Laser 150 crank-case side lug mounts. The firewall is probably not adjustable for the Moth. The DA 50 R mounts flat against the firewall, and the wooden rails would have to be cut off flush to the Flair Moth firewall in my case. Can you envision a problem with DA 50 R length (above) of 6.7 inches (170 mm) for a "flush to the firewall" installation?

4) Recommended props are 22X12 or 24X8. Up here, a 22X16 or 24X10. EdwardB noted the “tip over” taxi issue during his maiden. Would a 22 or 24 inch prop exacerbate ground handling or ground clearance problems?

5) Since gas runs hotter than glow, might have to enlarge vents in the cowl for cooling. Can you for-see any engine cooling issues with the Moth cowl?

Thanks fellows for your help and any other ideas/suggestions/criticisms.

Phoon, your questions are more suited for Cybertom and Ed at this point. I just began going through my kit box last night. One issue that I believe may be a problem is the width of the DA. I'm not real familiar with the engine but most gassers I've seen have the muffler on the side, which adds considerably to the width. The cowl on the "Tiggie" is rather narrow. Certainly less than 6". Your need for more power is evident. Have you considered the Laser 180? From what I have learned - dimensions in a previous post - the engine will fit the scale cowl. As for mounting the engine, you are correct in assuming the engine mounts on rails. A firewall mount is do-able with an increase in the thickness of the firewall and strengthening the firewall mount structure - more weight. The current mount rails pass through and secure to the front 3 bulkheads in the nose. The additional weight with the DA sounds to me like you will be needing tail weight. Not something you want to do with your flying site situation. I believe Ed stated that he used less than a pound of nose weight to get the CG at the recommended location. More power with more weight will be a wash out.

Phoon -- John answered a couple of your questions. I'll try to add a little.

1) Would the DA 50 R (inverted) fit within the Moth fiberglass cowl? The biggest concern is whether the width of the DA 50 R head is too large.

Answer: I didn't take mine apart, so these measurements aren't 100% exact, but reasonably right for inside the cowl:
5.75 inches from firewall to prop drive washer
5.25 inches from engine center line to inside of cowl bottom
3 - 3.5 inches wide at cowl location of cylinder head

Conclusion: All of these dimensions are less than the dimensions of the DA 50 R, minus the muffler. I personally don't see how it could fit.

2) The Laser 150 weighs 29.5 Oz, and the DA 50 R (with mounts) weighs 50 Oz, a difference of 20 .5 Oz or 1.28 Lbs. EdwardB, can you tell me fairly precisely how much lead weight you had to add to the nose of your Moth (with Laser 150 in place) to get proper CG, and whether it was close to 21 Oz?

Answer: I added over two pounds of lead to mine, so the weight difference is not an issue. Note that I added a scale tailwheel assembly (not light) and the Flair design, while very strong and sturdy, could be lightened in the back, in my opinion, without sacrificing anything. But mine flies great at 19-20 pounds (still inside the recommended weight) so I'm not worried about it, and won't change anything.

3) I gather that there are "engine bearers", wooden rails installed for the Laser 150 crank-case side lug mounts. The firewall is probably not adjustable for the Moth. The DA 50 R mounts flat against the firewall, and the wooden rails would have to be cut off flush to the Flair Moth firewall in my case. Can you envision a problem with DA 50 R length (above) of 6.7 inches (170 mm) for a "flush to the firewall" installation?

Answer: As John said, the engine beams could be cut off at the firewall, and a radial mount engine used without a problem. You can't remove the engine beams completely. Inside the fuse, they are also the main attachment point for the top wing cabane structure. But, the available length is still nearly an inch less than the DA needs. I don't see how you could move the firewall back that much. I wouldn't try it, anyway.

4) Recommended props are 22X12 or 24X8. Up here, a 22X16 or 24X10. EdwardB noted the “tip over” taxi issue during his maiden. Would a 22 or 24 inch prop exacerbate ground handling or ground clearance problems?

Answer: I measured 14 inches from the center of the prop shaft to the ground, with the tail up in flying position. So, ground clearance with a 22 or 24 inch prop should not be a problem. I don't think that large a prop would change anything regarding nosing over. While I mentioned this issue, don't forget this was on the first or second flight, and I'm not flying from the smoothest field. A change to higher rate elevator, and proper procedure on my part, and I'm expecting this to be a non issue. Certainly I don't consider this to be a design flaw, or anything to be overly concerned about. It's mostly self correction (me...).

5) Since gas runs hotter than glow, might have to enlarge vents in the cowl for cooling. Can you for-see any engine cooling issues with the Moth cowl?

Answer: The scale vents in the cowl are relatively small. I don't know if they would be enough to cool a gasser or not. I kind of doubt it, but that's an opinion without any real world testing. If they had to be bigger, it would certainly change the look of the cowl. As John said, this is a pretty small and narrow cowl. There isn't a lot there to cut out.

Conclusion (my opinions!): The DA 50 R is a nice engine, but I don't think a good fit for this size Tiger Moth. Yes the DA instructions say for a 14 - 16 pound airplane, but don't forget DA engines are mainly marketed for highly aerobatic, 3D style flying, where 2+ engine thrust to airplane weight ratio is common, and certainly not required for the Tiger Moth. Even at altitude, my opinion is that this is way too much engine for this particular model. I agree with John that the Laser 1.80 might be something to consider -- and focus on keeping the airplane at the lower weight range. With a little lightening in the back, 17-18 pounds should be achievable with the 1.80.

As much as I like the Tiger Moth, it may not be the best option for your situation, if you need that much extra power. A scale subject that used a radial engine (like a Sopwith Pup, a Nieuport, just to name a couple), rather than an in-line engine like the Tiger Moth, would have a big enough cowl area to go way oversize with the engine of your choice, with room to spare.

EdwardB and John, thanks for your posts about DA-50-R.

Just called Brian at Desert Air; what a great fellow to work with. Brian gave me more exact measures on the the DA-50-R, which confirm EdwardB's comments above: I'm dead in the water with the DA 50 R. What a shame; The DA is such a beautiful gasser. Here's why:

DA-50-R RULED OUT

1) The DA 50 R length of 6.7 inches from prop washer to back edge of engine mount can be shortened by using 1 and 1/4 inch standoff mounts instead of the standard 2 and 1/4 inch standoffs that come with engine. That would put me at 5.45 inches, within the 5.75 inches EdwardB measured above. Or I could cut down the 2 and 1/4 standoffs to get the exact 5.75 inches. Or, during building, probably could move firewall back in a bit in toward tail.

2) The DA-50-R is 5.5 inches from engine ctr line to top of head, but there is only 5.25 inches available inside the cowl. One could cut the cowl out at the bottom to alow clearance of the head plus the spark plug and plug cap-wire. But there would be at least a half of an inch of head showing, and the spark plug wire. For many, the esthetics of the scale Moth would dictate against this.

3) Initial measurement on the DA-50-R head above was incorrect and oversize, but it is still too much. The widest portion of the DA-50-R head at the top, is 3 and 1/8 inch. With a Pitts Slimline muffler attached to the exhaust flange, one side from cowl center line must be 2.8125, but there really is only 1.75 inches of cowl space on that side available. On the other side, 1.5625 inches is needed, and there is 1.75 inches of cowl space available, which is enough. One could cut the cowl open and make it fit, but there would be at least an inch of slimline muffler hanging outside the cowl on one side.

One idea is to think of the Moth as "sport scale", mount the DA-50-R upright, and showcase the engine at the front of the plane as-is without any cowl instalation. Its a beautiful engine, and the plane would still have that great "antique look". Yet, might as well build a Flair Pt-17 instead if I'm goin' to hang out the entire engine.

Another engine idea for my altitude is the new methanol/nitro YS DZ 160, same weight as the Laser 180, maybe 30% more power than the Laser 150, it's supercharged, has a fuel pump and C and H Ignition's spark could be added. Since a glow driver for idle is needed anyway, maybe a good idea just to add a few needed onces and go all the way with spark. Have to research dimensions...

Rebuilt a YS 120 AC, supercharged, now obsolete, with custom gaskets and a few tweaks, and it flew a quarter scale cub well. About same power as Laser 150, running a Zinger 16 X 8 at 9200 RPM at seal level. But just don't think it would cut it with the Moth up here.

Thanks John for the Laser 180 suggestion. Might consider adding spark to it.

A correction: All the altitude density and relative engine power ratings I posted above are for the true altitude of my flying site at 9350. Above, I mistakenly posted my flying site 400 feet higher than it actually is.

EdwardB, could you post a picture of your laser 150 engine instalation (without cowl) showing how you routed your mufler?

My best, Peter

Hello Peter. Glad to post pictures, but if you don't mind, I'm not going to take the cowl off. I have it all set for flying and would prefer not to take apart right now. I have two pictures that I think will give you the idea though. The single cylinder Lasers, as best I know, are all set up the same way -- with the carb and muffler mounted behind the cylinder, and directly in line with their respective valves. This is one of the reasons a Laser will fit nicely into narrow scale airplanes like the Tiger Moth. The first picture is of the Laser right after I received it from Proctor Enterprises. The other is from a few minutes ago, showing the bottom of the Tiger Moth, and where the exhaust exits the bottom of the cowl. It's very straightforward. If you look closely, you will notice that the carb and exhaust are reversed in the first picture from what they are in the recent picture of the Tiger Moth. This was my mistake. The engine is shipped without them in place, but the instructions clearly show the right positions. It was mounted this way on the Super Cub for test flights. Let's just say it didn't run very well at first, and the test flights didn't start until they were put into the right locations (e.g. carb into intake, muffler on exhaust. duh...). Also note I did put an aluminum extension on the muffler to extend the exhaust past the bottom of the plane. After two flights, there was only a little bit of oil on the bottom of the fuse front and the gear. The rest of the airplane was clean. Not too bad for a greasy glow engine.

I threw in a picture of my just completed pilot. He's from Aces of Iron. I tried to follow the instructions on their website to paint him. I'm no artist, but it turned out pretty well, and looks good sitting in the Tiger Moth.

EdwardB

Thanks - the picts are just fine as is. Both your engine and mounting description was very helpful. From your pictures, can now appreciate the importance of a muffler that is on the rear of the Laser, and can see how it fits the cowl. The Laser 180 is ranking right now as a strong choice.

By luck, got hold of a "Lanzo's Record Breaker" this weekend, and will fit it with a YS 91 AC to get some first hand experience flying at 9350 feet up in the coming months.

EdwardB,

Your pilot looks terrific. When I enlarged all your photos, all I can say is that your detailing, the instruments, the windshield, the cockpit with the pilot look absolutely outstanding, real artistic integrity and beauty, beyond anything I can imagine.

This forum has been such a great opportunity to learn from all of you fellows...coupla more quick quests:

1) Can you tell us what each of the three "tubes exiting from the bottom of the cowl" consist of? It's such a neatly set up system. Are the tubes for fueling the tank, excess oil from Laser crank case, ect? Do I see a dot fueler? Any details you can give us about this are much appreciated.

2) You mentioned that you added an aluminum extension tube onto the Laser muffler to extend through the bottom of the cowl. Can you tell us more about how you did this? For example, did you use a short piece of Teflon tubing with special heat resistant ties to couple to the Laser muffler exit? Or, did the aluminum extension tube fit directly over the Laser muffler exit tube with some special attachment method?

3) Would like details on spray painting of cowl and other silver painted parts. Assuming the silver spray came from a can, what brand was it? Did you spray primer on the parts first? How many coats of primer, what brand, what grit sandpaper did you use to sand primer coats, and how many final coats of silver spray did you use? Any light sanding (grit?) between silver coats?

4) About your Moth maiden landing experiences: My son Robin and I built and flew a bipe years ago. He really loved the flight character. Been flying the Goldberg Ultimate on the simulator. Need to get the GP tiger Moth for the simulator. It seems that a bipe needs to be pointed down on runway approach to counter act the drag to keep up sufficient speed. When you flew the Flair "Tiger Moth, did it also need to be pointed down, maybe even with a little throttle, to counter act drag? Or, was it a real floater on landing, giving you plenty of time to touch down? Not sure I'm expressing myself clearly on this, so I'll try again. For example, the Space-Walker and the Ryan STA, and the Goldberg extra to a large degree, on my simulator are just fabulous floaters on landing. You can take lots of time to set up the landing, and you actually have quite a range of speeds at which you can actually settle the ships down. Ditto for my Astro-Hog in Florida, in the real world, especially with the little bit of flapper-ons we added this last Spring. Was the Flair Moth like this on landing? Any experiences you can relate about the character of your various landings during the maiden days with the Flair Moth are much appreciated.

Thanks in advance, Peter

Hello again Peter. Thank you for your kind words. I enjoy all the detail of this hobby, and appreciate that you noticed. Regarding your questions:

1. The three tubes are (1) crankcase vent from the Laser (there's a nipple on the back cover), (2) fuel tank vent, to top of tank, (3) fuel tank fill, to bottom of tank. There isn't a dot fueler, only a Great Planes fuel line plug in the fuel tank fill line. The vent is left open. The Laser instructions say not to use muffler pressure. It's a real simple setup. Just close the throttle to prevent flooding, remove the fuel line plug, pump until fuel out the vent, replace fuel line plug, and you're ready to go.

2. The aluminum extension tube is directly over the Laser muffler exit tube, and only about 2 inches long. Without it though the exhaust would exit directly onto the firewall, and make a giant mess. I found some .750 OD x .035 wall 2024-T3 tubing (I think at Aircraft Spruce & Specialty) that fit the exit tube on the Laser muffler perfectly after just a couple of passes with a file. I secured with a little J-B Weld epoxy and a 6-32 socket head screw. It flew a number of fights previously on my Super Cub, without any problems.

3. The silver is plain old aerosol can Plasti-Kote body shop paint from the automotive department at Walmart. The color is 1001 bright silver. It matches the silver Solartex perfectly. The black parts are the same brand paint, color 1020 black. I have found that Coverite 21st Century Primer works great, and have been using it as my main primer for several years. It dries fast, sands well, and I haven't found anything yet that didn't go over it fine. The cowl was an excellent layup, with only one tiny blemish that required a little spot filler, and it was ready to paint. I used the Coverite Primer, the Plasti-Kote silver, and then Klasskote clear satin using an HVLP gun. Note the windshield frames, and silver frames around the cockpit openings (pieces of nylon push rod) are painted with the same Plasti-Kote silver. Also FYI, since we're talking about paint, the fuse is Cub yellow Solartex, and oversprayed with Yellow Klasskote with satin catalyst. Out of the package, the yellow Solartex was not very opaque, plus not quite the right color. The little bit of paint worked perfectly. The silver Solartex seems to have a much more substantial finish, and is just like it came out of the package.

4. I can't give a real detailed account of the Tiger Moth's landing characteristic after only two flights. But I too had a Goldberg Ultimate, and later a Dave Patrick Ultimate (similar, just a bit bigger) and the Tiger Moth is definitely more gentle than those. I guess I would have to say I expected it to be more of a floater than it actually is, but it's not a small or necessarily light airplane. Also, there was almost no wind on the only day I've flown it. I'm sure that a little breeze would slow it down quite a bit. In summary, though, it lands gently and easily, and gives you plenty of time to think about what you're doing. Based on the experience you've had, I don't think you would have any problems.

Hope I answered your questions. I'm headed to a scale fly-in this Saturday, and the weather looks like it will be perfect. There will be lots of airplanes, so I don't expect to have more than 2-3 flights, but I should know more about it after flying more. I'm going to try to take pictures, and maybe get a movie clip if I can find someone to point the camera.

This is a little bit off of the current subject but I wanted to share a recent experience I had flying a full scale Tiger Moth while on business in England. I was able to fly her for about 10-minutes on a windy day in Duxford. I laughed when a spectator commented "How crude" when the ground crew started the engine by flipping over the propeller by hand. No electric starts on this airplane.

The Tiger Moth is very nimble and responsive as compared to a Stearman which is heavier on the controls but more stable. You don't need a whole lot of control input on the stick to bank her into a turn. She almost seemed to fly like an oversized ultra light. The wind gusts made me fly her the whole time I was on the stick. You have to get used to the wind if you fly in England or Ohio for that matter. I was getting bounced around quite a bit. As a comparison of trainers the Tiger Moth is more like little light weight sports car while the Stearman is the bigger American Muscle car. I love both aircraft; it’s just two different approaches to the same problem from different cultures.

As I was flying all I could think was "It doesn't get any better than flying a Tiger Moth for the fist time across the English countryside”. I was very fortunate to have this experience. A couple of shots from my flight:

Wow, what an experience! I did not know you flew full scale.

Wow!!! Now there’s an unintentional omission. I only fly full scale when there is an instructor in the back seat! I was not up there all by myself!

That's why it was just a 10-minute flight. They take you up, go over the controls and let you fly for around 10-minutes then they land it. You can get 20-minutes of flying time but it costs twice as much. You get stick time the same way students do.

I have had the opportunity to fly full scale aircraft from time to time. Both the PT-17 Stearman and Tiger Moth experiences were short but very sweet flights. I'll take the wind in my face any day over being cramped up in a fuselage.

From the short experiences I have had, there is a BIG difference flying a PT-17 Stearman and flying a Tiger Moth. I was definitely more comfortable with the Stearman. It was bigger and more stable and slower on the controls. I just felt more at home in the Stearman. Don't get me wrong, I loved flying the Tiger Moth but it took more concentration. I had to be on it the whole time. Also I'm around 6' 2" 225lbs and that little Bipe reminded me of a strap on airplane!

Hey Tom,

Where did you get to Fly the Tiggie over there? I occassionally go over on business also, and that would be something new to do on a weekend!

I was at the "Imperial War Museum Duxford." There are other Imperial war museums in England so Duxford is the one you want. There is a little building to the left of the tower on the runway called "Classic Wings." That's the place to go. They have 2-Tiger Moth's flying a circuit of 15-minutes and 30-minutes. I'm sure you can go longer if you have the cash. Make at least a day of it though because the Imperial War Museum is incredible. You can easily spend the whole day there from 10:00am to 6:00pm and not see everything. There are many hangars and they are filled with what had to be well over a hundred classic aircraft. You can also observe all of the 1st class restoration work that is being done. The American Air Museum was outstanding. It's dominated by a B-52 and they have SR-71 and a U2 spy planes. Its airplane nut HEAVEN!!!

From London Gatwick take the M23 to the M25 (London bypass) to the M11 and head towards Cambridge. The "Imperial War Museum Duxford" is only a 10-minute drive from Cambridge on the M11. There are lots of nice places to eat in Cambridge. Walking downtown to the main campus was very nice. If you feel like some American food while your there try the "Pizza Hut" in Cambridge and get a pint of Carling to go with the pizza.

[link=http://duxford.iwm.org.uk/]Imperial War Museum Duxford Web Link[/link]

PS,
A Spitfire just happened to be flying by when I was waiting for my flight and a B-17 landed. That's me in the last picture standing with a staff member of the "Fighter Collection". I took about 300-photographs of the Gloster Gladiator. I was there for a total of 12-hours over a period of 2-days mostly taking measurements off of the Gloster Gladiator. I'm making my own plans for a 1/4th scale Gladiator.

Ahhh. OK. I have been to the Duxford Museum Twice. The first time, the ride shack wasn't operating, the second time was during one of the fantastic airshows they put on.

I'm glad you reminded me! I will have to remember to get back there on my next trip for ride!!!!!

They should be just about done with the P-51C restoration also, yet another excuse to go back.

Back again to the Flair Tiger Moth. I just started building mine. I'm on sheet 1 and already have a question relating to mounting the engine and the tank position. I don't have the engine yet. Cybertom and/or Ed, where does the engine mount relative to the mount beams? Does the engine hang from the top of the beams or does it bolt to the bottom of the beams. Did you have to use the #16 formers to adjust tank height up or down or is the tank positioned properly relative to the Laser 150 carb with the as supplied formers?

John. The engine bolts to the bottom of the hardwood beams, in an inverted position. The bottom surface of the beams is actually the centerline of the thrust line, if that makes sense. I don't remember completely, but I'm pretty certain I had to modify the bulkheads holding the tank to lower it to meet the carb height. As I recall, I used part of the supplied parts, and made new pieces for the bottom to lower the tank. It was pretty simple. The way the Laser is designed (if that's the engine you're using) the carb is directly behind the intake valve, so when the engine is mounted inverted, the tank center line has to be quite low. I didn't use the supplied tank. A couple of the reviews I read said the supplied tank leaked, so I used a standard Sullivan round tank, and adjusted the bulkheads to fit. My opinion, it's going to be pretty difficult to get this exactly right without the engine while you are building, unless you have the exact measurement of the distance from the center of the engine (mounting beam) to the carb inlet. Definitely you will want the engine before mounting the cowl.

Thanks Ed. After I posted the inquiry I found a sketch in the build instructions that discusses putting a baffle around the engine. In that sketch it showed the engine mounted as you stated. I have an inquiry in to Laser to get the carb to crank shaft center line dimension.
I share your decision about the tank. When I saw the stopper set up on the kit tank, I decided I'd be installing a Sullivan round tank.

Fellows, does anyone know of a Hobby Shop or supplier in the US who has a Flair Tiger Moth kit available? Tried Third Coast Hobbies, but can't get through. Perhaps someone knows of a Hobby Shop in the US that still has an unsold kit, or an individual owner who has made other plans and wants to sell their kit. Thanks, peter at nednet dot net

I can't get to third coast hobbies..all I get is something called VDeck.what's the deal

Hi all.
I bought a Flair Tiger Moth Kit back in Feb 1997. I have just got the fuz built, Rudder, Stab and Elev's to date. After all it has only been 10 yrs 7mths. I bought a Lazer 150 4st for it but I sold that 8yrs ago. Every time I look at the kit I want to get back into it. I will finish it some day but on till then I will keep on flying my ARTF planes.

Keep up the good work.

Adrian.[8D]

Does anyone have a Flair Tigermoth Kit they want to sell. RadicalRC is out of stock and don't know when they will restock.

I have a 1/4 scale tiger moth kit that is made by Duncan hutson (made in england). I bought it used at a auction. Some one had started on it and given up.Its a nice kit and I'm working through it (slowly) The problem is I don't have a parts list to tell what is there and what things are for.And I'm to the point where I need to make up all the guide wires and cabne wires and flying wires and the book or the print doesn't give good detail at all to show how to attach them or where the turn buckles go or what the brackets look like..I have tried to download pictures of some full scales but then I can't open them up after I get them down loaded??[:@]..So i was hoping that one of you that built the flair kit could help me out with some pictures or instructions.
Thanks clocknut

Well guys I still need some help here! I mounted my engine yesterday and fit my cowling I think it turned out great. I'm using a 28cc poulan inverted and running it on the gas /glow fuel so it is going to be lite and it fits great and I can still use the cowling.
Thanks again
clocknut[img][/img]

CYBERTOM'S FLAIR TIGER MOTH UPDATE

Well I finally got back to working on this Tiger Moth kit. I am hoping to keep the pressure on and get it finished before June. So far I have created the main spars and am waiting for a cross slide vice to show up so I can drill accurate holes for the Robart hinges I plan to use. While I was waiting to build the main wings I decided to knock out the stabilizer and rudder assemblies.

About The Stock Hinges
I don't really care for the stock hinges made of metal stampings with a small cotter pin linking them together. The Robart hinges (with hinge pockets) will be lighter and not have the mechanical play of the stock hinges. I'm using Robart hinge pockets so that I can disassemble the rudder, stabilizer, and ailerons from the airplane.

Other Modifications
Another item I am planning to change is the cabane struts. They are BIG heavy solid steel rods bent to shape. I plan to replace these with lighter hardwood struts strengthened with fiberglass. I plan on attaching metal brackets at the ends. These cabane struts will be removable unlike the stock configuration. I had hard landing with my Stearman a few years back and bent the aluminum cabanes. It was a real PAIN to fix because they couldn't be removed.

My goal is a very reliable low maintenance airplane that is lighter and stronger than the stock configuration and can be easily serviced if necessary.

Where can I get an 1/4 scale Tiger Moth kit?
Are there any company in the USA?
Thanks.