Nitro models pusher Bobcat?
10-13-2007 | 11:11 AM
#2352
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From: Boynton Beach,
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RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat?
Hey guys - just got back from the field. They put a new battery and had the radar gun calibrated. I was the king of the field today by a .2 mph margin.... 133.7 MPH!!!!
Woooooo-hoooooooooo!
That was on a downwind pass 10-12 mph downwind, leveled off from a split-s. As fast as I can make it go, basically...
OS 55 AX, Jett Pipe, 30% cool power, APC 11x7 pusher
Post your high speeds!
Woooooo-hoooooooooo!
That was on a downwind pass 10-12 mph downwind, leveled off from a split-s. As fast as I can make it go, basically...
OS 55 AX, Jett Pipe, 30% cool power, APC 11x7 pusher
Post your high speeds!
10-13-2007 | 01:01 PM
#2353
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From: Poolesville, MD
RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat?
Damn I wish I had a radar gun...
If you're getting that with the AX and an 11x7 prop,....
Impressive never the less.
What RPM's do you get on the ground at WOT?
If you're getting that with the AX and an 11x7 prop,....
Impressive never the less.
What RPM's do you get on the ground at WOT?
10-14-2007 | 07:28 AM
#2355
My Feedback: (151)
RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat?
ORIGINAL: opjose
Check out the "quick release" canopy mount I made for the Bobcat .25. Very easy to do.
You could use two instead of one like I did.
The magnets are totally unnecessary.
ORIGINAL: thebluemax
The canopy looks to be another problem. I trimmed it along the lines they had marked on there. When it sits on the fuse there is not much room on the side of the fuse underneath the canopy to secure it witth screws. I can do one on the top front and top rear but the sides do not have much to grab.
The canopy looks to be another problem. I trimmed it along the lines they had marked on there. When it sits on the fuse there is not much room on the side of the fuse underneath the canopy to secure it witth screws. I can do one on the top front and top rear but the sides do not have much to grab.
You could use two instead of one like I did.
The magnets are totally unnecessary.
ORIGINAL: Flyboy Dave
....I'm old fashoned.....I use small screws and some automotive trim tape
to seal the deal.....It keeps air from getting under the canopy and working
it loose. It peels right off if you need to get beck inside later.
FBD.
....I'm old fashoned.....I use small screws and some automotive trim tape
to seal the deal.....It keeps air from getting under the canopy and working
it loose. It peels right off if you need to get beck inside later.
FBD.
10-14-2007 | 08:38 AM
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From: swindon, UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat?
ORIGINAL: marktur
Blue - you need to use the fuel tank the same way everyone else does, and also the way it was designed for - clunk towards the REAR of the plane. The inside plumbing - clunk should come about 1/8 - 1/4 to the end, but not touch - it should flop around to the "bottom" of whatever angle you're holding the tank. There's no other correct way to do it without using a pump.
If you're not just leaning out the motor too much - this is easy to do with a pusher, BTW, because you're not getting the prop-blast you're used to with a tractor setup. You can't tweak it to "max rpm" on the ground - you have to find that spot, then open the needle a bit more. When it's in the air, it will be moving forward, thus creating less resistance on the prop, allowing it to "unload" and acheive higher RPM. This is when it heats up and you get into trouble. The fact that sometimes when you throttle back you can save it is another BIG hint - you throttle back, the motor cools and begins to run properly again.
If you cannot get it to quick going dead stick even with a rich ground setting, I'd look into the following things:
1. Make sure all the head bolts are tiight.
2. Make sure there's no fuel leaking out under compression around the glow plug
3. Use an external fuel tank - just for testing - to verify it's not a fuel tank or line issue
4. When you're testing for a good setting, have your helper hold the plane vertically, with the nose DOWN (leanest cast conditions) and re-tune.
5. Change to brand new fuel, and put in a GOOD recommended glow plug.
6. When it's running, if you tap on the needle valve, and the motor changes, it may be that you have a bad 0-ring in the needle, or the o-ring sealing the carb to the motor. Unscrew the needle valve and try to see if the o-ring is damaged, and also try blowing fuel backwards from the exhaust feed, fuel should come out of the needle valve.
If none of these work, I'd say it's time to get a new piston and sleeve for the motor, or perhaps just get a new motor. It's not worth risking a nice plane for an unruly motor. Spend $90 and get the Tower - that's the deal according to some of the guys posting here. I'm running the OS 55AX, and I love the motor, but I've paid probably $150+ for it. (Can't remember now - but it's RELIABLE and has excellent power).
Whatever you do - don't fly it unless it will idle for a good 30 seconds without shutting down, and can also run at full throttle for 30 seconds without slowing down RPM's.
Finally, I do the "pinch test" when I think it's tuned properly - while at full throttle, I pinch the fuel line to the needle valve. It should make the engine INCREASE in RPM, if it sags or shuts off, you're too lean - open the needle a few clicks, and try again.
Hope that helps
Mark
Blue - you need to use the fuel tank the same way everyone else does, and also the way it was designed for - clunk towards the REAR of the plane. The inside plumbing - clunk should come about 1/8 - 1/4 to the end, but not touch - it should flop around to the "bottom" of whatever angle you're holding the tank. There's no other correct way to do it without using a pump.
If you're not just leaning out the motor too much - this is easy to do with a pusher, BTW, because you're not getting the prop-blast you're used to with a tractor setup. You can't tweak it to "max rpm" on the ground - you have to find that spot, then open the needle a bit more. When it's in the air, it will be moving forward, thus creating less resistance on the prop, allowing it to "unload" and acheive higher RPM. This is when it heats up and you get into trouble. The fact that sometimes when you throttle back you can save it is another BIG hint - you throttle back, the motor cools and begins to run properly again.
If you cannot get it to quick going dead stick even with a rich ground setting, I'd look into the following things:
1. Make sure all the head bolts are tiight.
2. Make sure there's no fuel leaking out under compression around the glow plug
3. Use an external fuel tank - just for testing - to verify it's not a fuel tank or line issue
4. When you're testing for a good setting, have your helper hold the plane vertically, with the nose DOWN (leanest cast conditions) and re-tune.
5. Change to brand new fuel, and put in a GOOD recommended glow plug.
6. When it's running, if you tap on the needle valve, and the motor changes, it may be that you have a bad 0-ring in the needle, or the o-ring sealing the carb to the motor. Unscrew the needle valve and try to see if the o-ring is damaged, and also try blowing fuel backwards from the exhaust feed, fuel should come out of the needle valve.
If none of these work, I'd say it's time to get a new piston and sleeve for the motor, or perhaps just get a new motor. It's not worth risking a nice plane for an unruly motor. Spend $90 and get the Tower - that's the deal according to some of the guys posting here. I'm running the OS 55AX, and I love the motor, but I've paid probably $150+ for it. (Can't remember now - but it's RELIABLE and has excellent power).
Whatever you do - don't fly it unless it will idle for a good 30 seconds without shutting down, and can also run at full throttle for 30 seconds without slowing down RPM's.
Finally, I do the "pinch test" when I think it's tuned properly - while at full throttle, I pinch the fuel line to the needle valve. It should make the engine INCREASE in RPM, if it sags or shuts off, you're too lean - open the needle a few clicks, and try again.
Hope that helps
Mark
i have tried all these things including the pinch test and tuning with the nose down, but i am still losing it after about 5mins in the air, i have a second engine today which i have taken out of my wot4 so will try changing it as i feel that the engine is not sucking the fuel through for some reason, if all else fails i may just buy the 0S 55 AX
i will be leaving for the field at about 4 today, so will let you know how it goes
steve
10-14-2007 | 07:23 PM
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From: Boynton Beach,
FL
RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat?
OK so we're all not paying attention at the field. Everyone's so excited to be running these high numbers on the radar, and then someone notices that it's on KPH not MPH!
Dammit!
So I think the run we had recorded before, into the wind at 101.6 (level flight from a split-s) will have to stand for my top speed until next weekend. I think with no wind I'll do a little better.
I will also try out the Zinger 11x8 prop (wood) - I have a feeling that it will do well, too.
************************
Steve - if you're getting 4-5 minutes consistently at this point, it's not your motor. It's something else - and my next suggestion is to replace the fuel tank and hoses. I had the same crap with my T-Maxx - it would run like a champ for 3/4 of a tank, and then just quit. It's literally OUT OF GAS!
This sounds like it also might be too short of a clunk in the tank, and on an attitude greater than straight and level flight, you may be missing the last ounce or two of fuel? It shoud almost touch, but be able to flop from top to bottom when you shake it and roll it.
BTW: I ran out of fuel for the first time on the weekend in about 5 minutes from doing nothing but speed runs. Do you have fuel left when you come in? (Silly question, but we're trying to systematically solve a problem)
I went Dead stick 4 feet off the deck - downwind - doing about 100! Made it in safely - dropped the retracts and deployed the spoilers, grabbed some altitude, whipped it around and floated her in like I been doing it like that all my life! Too cool in front of my buddies - smooth! I love my Bobcat!
Dammit!
So I think the run we had recorded before, into the wind at 101.6 (level flight from a split-s) will have to stand for my top speed until next weekend. I think with no wind I'll do a little better.
I will also try out the Zinger 11x8 prop (wood) - I have a feeling that it will do well, too.
************************
Steve - if you're getting 4-5 minutes consistently at this point, it's not your motor. It's something else - and my next suggestion is to replace the fuel tank and hoses. I had the same crap with my T-Maxx - it would run like a champ for 3/4 of a tank, and then just quit. It's literally OUT OF GAS!
This sounds like it also might be too short of a clunk in the tank, and on an attitude greater than straight and level flight, you may be missing the last ounce or two of fuel? It shoud almost touch, but be able to flop from top to bottom when you shake it and roll it.
BTW: I ran out of fuel for the first time on the weekend in about 5 minutes from doing nothing but speed runs. Do you have fuel left when you come in? (Silly question, but we're trying to systematically solve a problem)
I went Dead stick 4 feet off the deck - downwind - doing about 100! Made it in safely - dropped the retracts and deployed the spoilers, grabbed some altitude, whipped it around and floated her in like I been doing it like that all my life! Too cool in front of my buddies - smooth!
I love my Bobcat!
10-14-2007 | 11:27 PM
#2360
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RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat?
Mark,
Are you using a switch and / or knob to deploy the spoilers and how much deflection are you using?
I just set mine up mixing it with my throttle and activated with the landing switch. I have an offset set at half throttle. When I turn my landing switch on, once the throttle gets to half the spoilers start to come up and continue to come up as the throttle goes down. When the throttle is all the way down they are fully deployed around 15 - 20 %. Which should work out really nice for landing.
As you accelerate they start to go back down to normal and once you get above half throttle they no longer work. Even when they are fully deployed I still have full aileron control. So if you do touch and goes or you have to go around again as you increase the throttle they will return to normal. Of course you can still turn off the landing switch.
I got the canopy on. Using a little elbow grease to hold it down I was able to get it screwed on. It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. The air lines are on the retracts, the receiver is in place. I just need to finish up by running the antenna wire, and balance it. Looks like she may fly either next weekend or the following week when I am on vacation.
Also, forgot to thank you for the idea of the stinger mod on the Jettstream muffler.
Are you using a switch and / or knob to deploy the spoilers and how much deflection are you using?
I just set mine up mixing it with my throttle and activated with the landing switch. I have an offset set at half throttle. When I turn my landing switch on, once the throttle gets to half the spoilers start to come up and continue to come up as the throttle goes down. When the throttle is all the way down they are fully deployed around 15 - 20 %. Which should work out really nice for landing.
As you accelerate they start to go back down to normal and once you get above half throttle they no longer work. Even when they are fully deployed I still have full aileron control. So if you do touch and goes or you have to go around again as you increase the throttle they will return to normal. Of course you can still turn off the landing switch.
I got the canopy on. Using a little elbow grease to hold it down I was able to get it screwed on. It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. The air lines are on the retracts, the receiver is in place. I just need to finish up by running the antenna wire, and balance it. Looks like she may fly either next weekend or the following week when I am on vacation.
Also, forgot to thank you for the idea of the stinger mod on the Jettstream muffler.
10-15-2007 | 07:34 AM
#2361
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From: Boynton Beach,
FL
RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat?
This is dissapointing: 133.7 kilometer/hour = 83.077 328 402 mile/hour (mph)
Bluemax - I'm flying using the Spektrum HELI version (I hate the ratcheting throttle of airplane radios)....anyway, this puts the idle-up switch (3 position) on the top left. This is what I'm using. I did not invoke the "landing" stuff. Switch all the way back: Normal flight, 1 click towards me, 50% of the spoilers, second click, fully deployed. I actually took the elevator mixing out, if I slow it down properly before I deploy, it just "slows down"....so I throttle back a bit, drop the wheels, then add in spoilers on downwind, and full spoilers on final.
I guess I like doing it manually
I'm going to really bolt on the weston pipe next weekend. My buddy at the field, Jim, has his setup with the GMS 76 and Weston, and we're about the same speed, although he's about 1 lb heavieer than me, needing extra weight to balance the heavier motor.
Bluemax - I'm flying using the Spektrum HELI version (I hate the ratcheting throttle of airplane radios)....anyway, this puts the idle-up switch (3 position) on the top left. This is what I'm using. I did not invoke the "landing" stuff. Switch all the way back: Normal flight, 1 click towards me, 50% of the spoilers, second click, fully deployed. I actually took the elevator mixing out, if I slow it down properly before I deploy, it just "slows down"....so I throttle back a bit, drop the wheels, then add in spoilers on downwind, and full spoilers on final.
I guess I like doing it manually
I'm going to really bolt on the weston pipe next weekend. My buddy at the field, Jim, has his setup with the GMS 76 and Weston, and we're about the same speed, although he's about 1 lb heavieer than me, needing extra weight to balance the heavier motor.
10-15-2007 | 10:57 AM
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From: Poolesville, MD
RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat?
ORIGINAL: thebluemax
Mark,
Are you using a switch and / or knob to deploy the spoilers and how much deflection are you using?
Mark,
Are you using a switch and / or knob to deploy the spoilers and how much deflection are you using?
More and the plane wallows around too much.
10-15-2007 | 11:08 AM
#2363
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From: Boynton Beach,
FL
RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat?
Yeah, I'm about the same (measuring aileron movement at the wingtips). I took the elevator mixing out...it flies straight and level at lower speeds...use the throttle to manage altitude. With your setup, I'm guessing that you hit the switch and the plane "slows" down without pitching, but then you're constantly holding in up elevator during descent...I'm the other way...I push the nose a bit downward, but then when I slow down, I'm not working the elevator hardly at all (until I flare for landing). I feel "safer" that way, as I think holding elevator constantly will give me a false sense of security, and I'll end up stalling it if it goes too slow.
There's no right and wrong, I guess it's what makes you more comfortable flying.
Man, I'm bummed out...I wanna go faster!
The consensus at the field is we're pretty much going as fast as a prop is going to push it. Too much drag. Waiting for Jack to bring his turbine version out next week! (Then I'll be taking out a second mortgage on the house for a real Jet, eh???)
There's no right and wrong, I guess it's what makes you more comfortable flying.
Man, I'm bummed out...I wanna go faster!
The consensus at the field is we're pretty much going as fast as a prop is going to push it. Too much drag. Waiting for Jack to bring his turbine version out next week! (Then I'll be taking out a second mortgage on the house for a real Jet, eh???)
10-15-2007 | 11:31 AM
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From: Poolesville, MD
RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat?
Yeah it otherwise balloons a lot when you hit the spoilerons.
I have it flying level when I hit the switch, but I am going to set it to lower the ballooning just a bit, but not eliminate it as a compromise.
As you've said I find that I'm fighting the elevator too much.
Since I have the nose gear on a seperate channel, I've been contemplating throwing in an "airbrake" switch that throws both rudders outward and pushes the nose down ( throwing the rudders "out" causes the nose to come up!!! ) to help slow the plane down when it is on the ground.
I'm often running the full length of our 600 foor field getting this thing stopped.
I have it flying level when I hit the switch, but I am going to set it to lower the ballooning just a bit, but not eliminate it as a compromise.
As you've said I find that I'm fighting the elevator too much.
Since I have the nose gear on a seperate channel, I've been contemplating throwing in an "airbrake" switch that throws both rudders outward and pushes the nose down ( throwing the rudders "out" causes the nose to come up!!! ) to help slow the plane down when it is on the ground.
I'm often running the full length of our 600 foor field getting this thing stopped.
10-15-2007 | 11:49 AM
#2365
RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat?
I need to get mine back in the air. I tore out the gear on a belly flop from about 8' up on a dead stick landing. Broke off the pin in nose gear. I subscribed to this thread so I would keep getting a nudge to repair it. The Revver Bro meet is this weekend so I had better get it fixed.
I'm hoping someone has an OS 55 equipped Bobcat out there so I can race him. I just can't believe that it will be as fast as the Tower 75. I'm sure I'm a little heavier but I'm turning a bunch more R's.
Blessings, Terry
I'm hoping someone has an OS 55 equipped Bobcat out there so I can race him. I just can't believe that it will be as fast as the Tower 75. I'm sure I'm a little heavier but I'm turning a bunch more R's.
Blessings, Terry
10-15-2007 | 12:20 PM
#2366
My Feedback: (21)
RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat?
....I'm going back to the Bobcat propjet thread....
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_45...19/key_/tm.htm
I actually got here by balance c/g specs.....
FBD.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_45...19/key_/tm.htm
I actually got here by balance c/g specs.....
FBD.
10-15-2007 | 01:57 PM
#2367
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From: Boynton Beach,
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RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat?
When I tried to participate in the other Bobcat thread, they directed me to this one...is that one still active?
OPJose, I'm surprised to hear that...mine comes in slow now, with plenty of runway to take off again. We're 600' too.... (Thanks to your good advice on the spoilerons) With your G3 model, I keep the spoilers fully deployed, and I do landing after landing without letting the nose down...practice that, and you'll quickly be able to spot-land at the field. It's all about throttle control - the plane actually moves slower and more stable with a notch or two above idle in my experience, because you can create tons of drag by coming in nose-high.
BTW: If you haven't seen this, watch it: http://www.filippo-materazzi.it/seba-mig.wmv
Talk about slow landings! This guy is my new hero!
OPJose, I'm surprised to hear that...mine comes in slow now, with plenty of runway to take off again. We're 600' too....
(Thanks to your good advice on the spoilerons) With your G3 model, I keep the spoilers fully deployed, and I do landing after landing without letting the nose down...practice that, and you'll quickly be able to spot-land at the field. It's all about throttle control - the plane actually moves slower and more stable with a notch or two above idle in my experience, because you can create tons of drag by coming in nose-high.BTW: If you haven't seen this, watch it: http://www.filippo-materazzi.it/seba-mig.wmv
Talk about slow landings! This guy is my new hero!
10-15-2007 | 07:55 PM
#2368
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From: Cavan, IRELAND
RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat?
Has anyone tried sheeting the whole wing etc and glassing this aircraft for longevity?
My non retract version has the retracts done now and I'm seriously considering doing this and including the addition of flaps. I know the sheeting, retracts and flap addition have been done but I see no mention of glassing and painted finish anywhere. I've now made the wings removable for fitting into the car using the BVM method. ( a siimple job 1 hour tops)
It's all for a Wren MW 44 gold turbine: I wouldn't bother with all this if it was for i.c.
My non retract version has the retracts done now and I'm seriously considering doing this and including the addition of flaps. I know the sheeting, retracts and flap addition have been done but I see no mention of glassing and painted finish anywhere. I've now made the wings removable for fitting into the car using the BVM method. ( a siimple job 1 hour tops)
It's all for a Wren MW 44 gold turbine: I wouldn't bother with all this if it was for i.c.
10-15-2007 | 11:57 PM
#2369
My Feedback: (151)
RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat?
Pretty impressive video. Acts like he has thrurst vectoring in it.
Based off of both of your comments I will lower the spoilers so they are close to 1/4 inch when fully deployed.
All that is left now is to balance it.
Getting conflicting weather reports for the weekend. TV says maybe some rain, the web says sunny.
Based off of both of your comments I will lower the spoilers so they are close to 1/4 inch when fully deployed.
All that is left now is to balance it.
Getting conflicting weather reports for the weekend. TV says maybe some rain, the web says sunny.
10-16-2007 | 08:34 AM
#2371
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From: Boynton Beach,
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RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat?
Bluemax - sounds like normal daily Florida weather. Unfortunately, I know up North the clouds form, and hang around....at least here they pass thru, and the sun comes back out.
Can't think of a better place to live! I surfed until dark last night....pretty good for an old guy!
Unfortunately, I know up North the clouds form, and hang around....at least here they pass thru, and the sun comes back out. Can't think of a better place to live! I surfed until dark last night....pretty good for an old guy!
10-16-2007 | 10:55 AM
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From: Poolesville, MD
RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat?
ORIGINAL: marktur
OPJose, I'm surprised to hear that...mine comes in slow now, with plenty of runway to take off again. We're 600' too.... (Thanks to your good advice on the spoilerons) With your G3 model, I keep the spoilers fully deployed, and I do landing after landing without letting the nose down...practice that, and you'll quickly be able to spot-land at the field. It's all about throttle control - the plane actually moves slower and more stable with a notch or two above idle in my experience, because you can create tons of drag by coming in nose-high.
BTW: If you haven't seen this, watch it: http://www.filippo-materazzi.it/seba-mig.wmv
Talk about slow landings! This guy is my new hero!
OPJose, I'm surprised to hear that...mine comes in slow now, with plenty of runway to take off again. We're 600' too....
(Thanks to your good advice on the spoilerons) With your G3 model, I keep the spoilers fully deployed, and I do landing after landing without letting the nose down...practice that, and you'll quickly be able to spot-land at the field. It's all about throttle control - the plane actually moves slower and more stable with a notch or two above idle in my experience, because you can create tons of drag by coming in nose-high.BTW: If you haven't seen this, watch it: http://www.filippo-materazzi.it/seba-mig.wmv
Talk about slow landings! This guy is my new hero!
Yeah I seem to be fighting it all the way in... it may be "pilot error"...
I'm a bit too afraid that I'll get into a wallowing situation as it starts to stall.
It is certainly a much different beast to land isn't it?
10-17-2007 | 10:02 AM
#2373
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From: Houston,
TX
RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat?
I am building a 'retract ready' B50. I have been sifting through this thread for days and can't seem to find a definitive recommendation for retracts and their installation. Here is my thinking...Springair 305 mains with Robart 607 nose (I hate pull/pull). Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
George
Thanks,
George
10-17-2007 | 10:45 AM
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From: Poolesville, MD
RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat?
As long as it fits the existing wheel wells you'll have no problems.
At worst only slight modifications may be necessary.
To be safe compare these pictures with the dimensions of the LG mounts...
At worst only slight modifications may be necessary.
To be safe compare these pictures with the dimensions of the LG mounts...
10-17-2007 | 11:02 AM
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From: Houston,
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RE: Nitro models pusher Bobcat?
Thanks Opjose. I see you built up the previously installed rails to bring the retracts up to the surface.
Also...I plan to mount an AXI 4130/16 motor. Any suggestions on a motor mount would also be helpful.
Thanks,
George
Also...I plan to mount an AXI 4130/16 motor. Any suggestions on a motor mount would also be helpful.
Thanks,
George
