Hi Morton
you probably have a second batch ,,,good batch
the third batch was even lighter
they can all make weight But the later models have the lightest stabs and wings
the first batch has a fillet issue along with the weight issue
but they have all been repaired.
Bear in mind this is the largest airplane on the market ,
it matches the 1.6 and 1.7 YS very nicely ,,, but I have no knowledge of an electric setup.

Use a Hyde ar. mount for best vibration free setup
add rear mounting screws to the canopy and it will reduce vibration noise
the BVM Hatch latch will not hold up all season ,,, it`s nifty ,, but not practicle for the full season.
Don`t use the supplied ailr horn setup use a stainless steel stud of equal size,
I`ve broken two different aileron horns on two different models.
If using glow power add wedges to the underneath of the gear mounts to throw the gears down and increase clearance for the 18- 19 inch props.
it likes the 18.1-10 apc.
Drill the axle holes in the gear as far down as you can on the legs for more clearance don`t go by the recomented boss they have predrilled .
I also use 3 inch dubro diamond tred tires,, 12 grams each ,,,,,[the gear are now updated on the latest models}
use the alum axles from Central Hobby they are the lightest out there, nothing else compaires { make sure you use green lock tight or they might back out }
Mount the tank under the wing tube releive the servo plate so you can put the tank towards the rear, it should be centered on the c/g
{1/8 forward of the wing tube }this is the most convenient way,, and out of the way
I will try to post some pictures tonight of my setup



HI Dave,
use these settings,
c/g in front of the wing tube , ail. at 18 deg throw (you can slow this down a little if you like )
elevator at 13-15 deg up
low rate rudder.
The rudder will effect the speed and exit of the snap ... but............... "the C/g is the most important
for exit" and overall snap setup
if it`s tail heavy even a little,, the snaps are hard to handle
if it`s hard to hold inverted{porposes up and down ,,, feels nose heavy ,,,,your tail heavy ,,trust me on this}
you should be able to hold a 45 up/down pos with no elevator input ,,, inverted 45 up and down with very very little input ,,,reguardless of expo, a nose weight forward airplane will do this a tail heavy airplane will not ,,
for spins you use the same set up as you do for pos snaps if spins look odd and exits nose high add or add nose wieght or reduce elevator throw end point ,,, if its hard to stop the spin every time ,,, reduce rudder,, or add nose weight
if it loos like the airplane needs differential in upline rolls and the ailerons are pefectly adjusted ,,, your tail heavy!!
use these standards ,, for setup do not waver from them,

These are my recomended setups for the Shinden
do not disregaurd c/g around 28-30 % mac it is the most important on this model because of the large wings and stabs
it will fly with other settings But what I just gave are the best overall settings
if these setting are used you will acheive NO MIX straight up , strait down and the best inverted feel
witch translates into effortless 4 point ,slow rolls and snaps
after this setup you will be able to wow your FAI buddies with one pos snap rolls on a upline and
1/1/4 down pos snaps with no displacement (although you might have to up your aileron throw a little )
good luck and feel free to ask any questions
Bryan Hebert

Hi Morten,

Thanks for your post.

How did you get on with getting answers out of Throttlestore? their service was good as in getting the kit packed and sent out, but they have never responded to any of my emails!

As for what batch it's from and weight, I will weigh everything when it arrives and post the results - I'm sure that will be a good way to identify if it's come from an early or late batch. I do have a gut feeling that mine may be a heavier one as the Pink version does not seem so popular as the Blue / White, if that is the case the Pink ones most probably sit around for a while thus making it an older one.

Let me know your thoughts on yours when you get it.

Mark.

Bryan,

Reading your reply to Morten, it sounds like I will have prop ( 20'' to 22'' ) clearance issues with my electric set up - what do you think?

Do you think that I may have an older batch Shinden on it's way if it's in the Pink color scheme? I'm on asking as you do seem to have your finger on the pulse with this plane. Would I be able to change it is it has got the early incidence issues?

In my first post I did mention servo's, I only have 11Lb and 15Lb pull servo's for 2mtr 3D stuff - any recomendations? I do like JR gear.

Thanks in advance,

Mark.

THANK CAJUN,I'M REAL CLOSE ON THROWS,I THINK THE CG IS THE CULPRIT .I HAVE MOVED IT FORWARD A LITTLE ,BUT I WILL MOVE A SKITCH MORE.OTHER THAN THAT IT'S THE BEST FLYING PLANE I'VE FLOWN IN 25 YEARS.

Thanks Dave,..
yeah ,, work on C/G, ,,the more forward you go the better it will get ,,

Mark ,, I am the designer of the Shinden so I hope I have my finger on the pulse

I think you have a Early model ,How Early ,,HUM well I don`t know,
They do still have request for the pink version so I won`t go by that
Measure the wings with a Meter and make sure the wings are 1/2 pos with the canopy frame set to ZERO,,
if they match the fillet then it`s prob from batch #2 if not then it is from the #1 batch
I want to say Extreme Composites Build A very good airplane super strong and very well built and have held up perfectly under very hard flying ,,,BY ME on a rough grass runway ,,these are minor issues I`ve had with the models for the last few years and I want to share what I have learned.
they supply Electric Gear ,,,very tall I don`t like um But they will work ,,with the big props

As far as JR well,, I`m a Sponsored FUTABA Pilot and I don`t know anything about JR Servo`s
Troy Newman or Dave Lockhart are the Guys to Ask about this ,hopefully they will read this and respond
as they are the JR Experts in the hobby.
Bryan

Hi Mark,

I sent them an e-mail in Danish (my native language and very similar to Norwegian), and they answered within a day. I sent the mail to "post (at) throttlestore (dot) com"... The kit is at the local post office now, and I expect to pick it up tomorrow. Details will follow.

I have not decided what type of propulsion to install yet, it will depend on the weight of the kit, either a YS-170DZ or a Plettenberg EVO. My C-ARF Integral, which is of similar construction, had a kit weight of 2296 grams (details below) and the finished "dry" weight without battery of that is 3837 grams with a Plettenberg EVO and Schulze 80A ESC. This just gives "room" for a FP5350 F3A LiPo pack that weighs approx. 1160 grams.

Raw weights of my Integral kit was:

Fuselage: 810 Grams
Canopy: 87 Grams
Cowl: 78 Grams
Right wing half: 410 Grams
Left wing half: 420 Grams
Wing tube: 95 Grams
Right stab: 122 Grams
Left stab: 117 Grams
Stab tube: 12 Grams
Fixed gear: 112 Grams
Wheel pants: 33 Grams

Total: 2296 Grams

mola,
as I recall
this is the weight around where the Shinden kits fall
Bryan

Hi Bryan,

Okay thanks for what to check and look for. If it is out, is there a fix for it? does it spoil the lines of such a great looking plane? In a way I wish I had read, asked a few more questions before ordering as the last thing I want is to get dis heartened with a airframe that has not been moulded Accurately. I had similar issues with a Lorenz Rhapsody and ended up scrapping it because of the build quality.

As for the servo's the JR DS9411 seems to be a good choice, I'm sure there will be some feedback to confirm this.

Thanks again for your help so far. Instantly I have had good helpful advise and reply's to my posts - a very friendly bunch you all are. Unfortunately, help / advise in the UK does not come this easy! it would seem if your not in with the ' in crowd ' you're not gonna get much help.

Thank you all, I only signed up yesterday and I already feel part of the family

Mark.

Hi Morten,

I only do English which is probably why I have not had anything back from TS.com

Thanks for the stats on the Integral, that was another one that I did consider. It will be interesting to see how those figures compare with the Shinden - I would be beating down the door at the post office to pick up my new toy

Thanks again for your posts, there is a little 'thank you to all' on the post that I have just sent Bryan.

Mark.

here are a few pics i promissed
hope it works

Mark I use 9411sa's on the ailerons, and ususally an 8411sa on the rudder. You can use an 8411sa on elevator or 8417 if you like a little more speed.

Tim

Hi,

Picked up the Shinden today at the post office, and checked the weight of the different components:

Fuselage with canopy frame, chin cowl and rudder : 1151 Grams
Clear canopy (un-cut): 159 Grams
Right wing half: 408 Grams
Left wing half: 418 Grams
Wing tube: 102 Grams
Right stab, with stab tubes: 152 Grams
Left stab: 127 Grams
Fixed gear: 178 Grams
Wheel pants: 31 Grams

Total: 2726 grams

Glow it is then!

A few photos of the kit. Overall quality seems fine, but the kit is a bit on the heavy side, especially the fuselage when comparing with the Integral.

Next batch of photos...

Thanks for the weights.. Yes, glow it would be if I flew glow still..
That really sucks (for electric) as I believe the Shinden could be the best plane out right now..
I tried to find out the weight from BVM, but they just said about 5 pounds.. They weren't really sure..
Sucks, I wanted one..

Chris

Umm, 430 grams heavier that is quite a bit compared to the Integral. Did the Integral have the same amount of formers / nose ring / servo tray and the release catches for the canopy and chin pre-installed? if not could that be where the extra bit of weight has come from?

Still a fine looking plane though, I will still go electric even if it is a bit on the heavy side - as electric is the only power plants I have now.

I have no idea where my kit is now! I have tried tracking it and I'm still getting the same info now after 3 days - it's sat in a post office in Oslo[] Have just sent a email to Norway Post to see if they can supply me with a more accurate update.

Will post some news on the kit as and when I have some.

Regards,

Mark.

Hi Tim,

Thanks for your post / info. I'm going to wait until the kit arrives and then make a decision on servo's for it. I'm not sure if low profiles are required for the wings or not, I do have quite a few JR8401's laying about, but I feel that the metal gear route may be better.

Regards,

Mark.

Looking at those pictures, the Integral is in a different class in terms of manufacturing. The Integral is a balsa/glass sandwich, with the complete forward section from the gear on layed up with carbon. It also has a kevlar band running the entire length of the fuz on both sides.

This looks lik a foam/glass sandwich and thats about it, which is I understand heavier.

Hi Jaycey,

The Shinden is apparently layed up using Herex and glass, which is not necessarily heavier than a balsa sandwich. The Impact was also done this way.

Hi Mark,

You are correct that the Integral is not quite as "ARF'ed" as the Shinden.

If you like you can find some details here in post 387: [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5004679/mpage_16/key_/tm.htm]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5004679/mpage_16/key_/tm.htm[/link]

The finished product is here in post 534: [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5004679/mpage_22/key_/tm.htm]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5004679/mpage_22/key_/tm.htm[/link]

Hi Morten,

Like the Pics you posted of your Shinden, have you also made the checks that Bryan suggested that I carried out? 'post 122'.

I am having a re think on motor choice and I would be interested on yours and other electric pattern flyers opinion / advice.

I was going to fit my Dualsky 6360 CA12, but it weighs 618gs and likes to throw big props 22 x 12. I also have a Plettenberg Xtra 25-13 which is a lot lighter ( 451gs approx ) and throws a max size of 20 x 10 / 11.

Now I know that the Plettenberg Xtra 30 - 10 now seems to be the motor of choice by many of you! but I would have to bye one and that was not planned for and may not really be an option at this time. I'm not a great fan of the Hacker C50XL motor 'n' gearbox. I have tried them, but have prefered the more raw power of direct drive!

Now if I use the Xtra 25 I have, I may just get away with the stock under cart which is a bonus - plus for practise flights I would use my 3850mah packs which weigh 1007gs and just reduce my flight times abit ( 8 mins? ).

What do you think? will the Xtra 25 be strong enough to carry this model through the up lines etc. I know I need to keep the weight down and this maybe a good combo. I have never used the Xtra in a full 2mtr pattern ship, so I have no idea how it will fair.

Please be honest and if it means a new purchase then so be it, it will mean it will take a bit longer to get her in the air.

Regards,

Mark.

Hi Mark

Having flown an Xtra 25-13 way back when we first started playing with electrics, I don't think you will be pleased with the performance. I was flying with an Enigma at around 10.2 lbs RTF, this plane is a lot smaller and lighter than the Shinden, and even on the Enigma it would struggle in strong winds. It was flyable, but there was no room for error! Plettenberg has a new Xtra 25 Evo line of motors which is probably much more capable than the older Xtra 25 motors were. It may be an option, but I have neither tried nor witnessed one fly, you would be best to speak directly to Plettenberg about that option to see if they have any information of someone using that motor in F3A.

I think you would be best to stick with the Xtra 30-10 Evo for a current 2m model, I realize its expensive to purchase a new motor, but long term it will give you the performance that is needed. Its a proven motor for this application, so there will be no doubt that it will work.

According to the weight chart from Bolly website, their landing gear should yield 50g of weight saving over the stock gear (128g vs 178g). I get to see a glow version fly about two weeks ago, and the owner changed to Bolly gear to gain additional room for running 18.1x10 prop, and this might be necessary running larger electric props.

Hi Chad,

Thanks for your post.

I had a feeling that the Xtra 30 was going to be quick to be recommended! what about the NON evo version - just the std 30-10 as I can get one of those fairly cheap at the moment and what prop size are we looking at?



Hi Elan120,

Thank you for your post as well.

I am expecting to have to upgrade the gear to get the clearence for the bigger props, do you know what Bolly one ( part No ) has been used to good affect?

Thank you both again,

Mark.

Hi Mark,

I recall the gear used was F3A-Long, and it fits the stock landing gear openings on the fuselage perfectly.

Kevin