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MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Old 10-30-2010, 04:21 PM
  #1026  
Scott Prossen
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Worth a try. Try everything you can think of that you're capable of doing yourself. Keep it simple and give it a shot! Why not. If all else fails then send it off and let the pros diagnose it!

Good luck,
Scott
Old 11-01-2010, 07:53 AM
  #1027  
Der Goetz
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence


ORIGINAL: JPate147

Thanks for the tip, but which cylinder are you refering to as number 3?

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Old 11-01-2010, 07:56 AM
  #1028  
Der Goetz
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Dear Jerry,

Please try leaning out your L needle. Whith the pump installed I end up at around 1.1 out on L on most engines. That is what keeps the cylinder from firing, not the H (in my case).

Best regards,

Gotz
Old 11-01-2010, 08:10 AM
  #1029  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Gotz:

Do you recommend break-in with non-synthetic oil and if so why or why not? How could a lubrcant be to good? ( as proposed by others)

I have been running synthetic (Redline 50:1) from day one because the factory instructions advised to.

I got tired of the smell and mess of unleaded and switched to avgas a couple years ago. The Moki seems to love the avgas.

Looking forward to trying your pump.......

Paul Eagon
Old 11-01-2010, 12:41 PM
  #1030  
Der Goetz
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Hello Paul,

I personally run full-synthetic exclusively, even for break in (at a 1:40 mix).
For me personally the risk of stuck valves outweighs the risk of "not breaking in gently".
Moki is one of the few companies that can afford a Nicasil treatment by Mahle and others, a process that leads to well known results of the highest grade.

As for oils, we recommend the Castrol RS 2T and do not recommend any other brand. But not because all other oils are poor. The reason why I am not an expert on AvGas or Yamalube or Redline is because we found something that is safe and we personally have no reason to leave the safe and beaten path. [sm=thumbs_up.gif]

Of course it is up to every owner to experiment, if they feel the need to do so, but be aware that you do so at your own risk. The same is true for turbines and 2-cycle engines, of course one can experiment, but results can and will vary.
You can spot a good lubricant both by the exhaust fumes (Bell Ray will look like a speeding MACK truck on I-5), the valves themselves of course and the way your sparkplug looks (you need to stop engine on a full throttle run with the engine being hot).

And please remember, forget about all of your 2-cycle experience when it comes to oiles and additives, this is a different beast and we all start from scratch once we get our first Moki or Valach.

Best regards,

-Goetz
Old 11-14-2010, 07:28 AM
  #1031  
rcwarbirdbuilder
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

I have a question on the Moki radial engines not related to maintenece, what are some of the warbirds which the Moki 150, 215 annd 250 can fit into and be used. Also how about maybe something like a BSU 1/3 size biplane like a Nieuport, thanks.
Old 11-14-2010, 08:16 AM
  #1032  
Scott Prossen
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

The 150 fits into one of your personal favorites....a Meister P47! There's about 5 or 6 of us in the SE with that combo and it's a beautiful thing! I had the 150 in a 1/4 scale YAK11 (Jak11), fit great and plenty of power.

The 1/3 to 40% Warbird Bi-Planes work great too. Usually they run a 215 to 250 in them because they need the mass up front and to swing a scale size prop. Rarely fly at more than 1/3 to 1/2 throttle. There are lots to pick from out there. CARF Corsair/250 another good combo. Then again if I'm not mistaken you're a big time builder (box of sticks guy) so the Meister type choices probably interest you more???

Think of it this way. As long as the engine fits you're golden. The 150 will fly a 35 - 50ish lbs bird. The 215, 45 to 55 lbs. 250....maybe somewhere in the 50 to 70lbs bird. In general terms I think that's close. Depends on how you want to fly them and what type of airframe. Seen Corsairs, Hellcats, Wildcats, FW190's, La-7's and 9's, Yak 11's, T6's and so on. Those are the fly fast and mean types. Then there's the Stearmans, Wacos, Buckers, Nieports and so on. They can fly so realistic with that radial just chugging along...it's a beautiful thing!!!

Good luck with your choice of project. Let us know what you pick.

Scott
Old 11-14-2010, 08:32 AM
  #1033  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Thank you for the info, when it comes to Quadra 50, 75 or 100 I know which airplanes to install them and what to expect in the air, when it comes to radials I am totaly lost... I am thinking of Vogelsang AT-6 with 134" span with 215 or 250?, I am not that crazy about the At-6 airplane though. I think my first choice would be something like a composite FW190 with a radial, is there anything like that out there?.. I may decide to install a radial in latter in my 1/3 Nieuport, what would be a better choice the 215 or 250 on it if I decide on that.
Old 11-14-2010, 08:51 AM
  #1034  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Go with a Meister, you can't lose. I've seen the P47 fly with a 150 and I was hooked. If you like to build it seems pretty straight foward. Plenty of room for any equipment you want to install. I will be starting mine soon, just waiting on the wood. Can't wait. Be one member of the growing Meister Air Force. Good luck with your choice.
Old 11-14-2010, 08:54 AM
  #1035  
Scott Prossen
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Vogelsang is the only choice for the MOKI radials and what a great guy/enthusiast to deal with. I also have been eyeing the AT6 he sells. I would go with the 250 for sure. In fact, since there is only 35cc's difference I would always choose the 250 as opposed to the 215. It can be used in a greater range of aircraft!

I just sold a Airworld FW190, all Composite with a 215 in it. Great airplane, sweet flyer, and Vogelsang stocks the kit too. Be aware that thhe airframe is not super scale as it was designed to fly well not score high in Top Gun static judging. Also if you go that route again I would opt for the 250.

Call Gotz at Vogelsang and talk to him. He's a pleasant enough fella and a wealth of info.

Not sure exactly about the Nieuport. I would choose the 150 or 250 based soley on which best filled the cowl in that case. I would think that both engines would fly the plane with ease. Personally, I would want something that barely chugged along and flew the plane in a scale like manner. Just my two cents!

Scott
Old 11-14-2010, 09:04 AM
  #1036  
Scott Prossen
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence


ORIGINAL: rcwarbirdbuilder

I have a question on the Moki radial engines not related to maintenece, what are some of the warbirds which the Moki 150, 215 annd 250 can fit into and be used. Also how about maybe something like a BSU 1/3 size biplane like a Nieuport, thanks.
Opps......I left one out George! Here's the P47 I'm working on and will be housing a MOKI 400. Should be three of them flying at the next Monster Planes! 143" WS. 10" tires. 110 lbs.
Old 11-14-2010, 10:17 AM
  #1037  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Thatone your working on would just about take up my intire trailer if I could even fit it in!,. I was told that Composite was comming out with a 110" P-47 that I could better fit into my 6x12 trailer along with couple other planes. I am going to look a little closer at the Vogelsang AT-6 with a 250 for it, thanks George.
Old 11-14-2010, 12:36 PM
  #1038  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Its so beautiful.. it makes me wanna cry!.. Damn Scott.. those three in the air with 400s is gonna sound SOsweet.. and MASSIVE 4bladers up front to really set it off.. but only if they are razorbacks
Old 11-15-2010, 04:36 PM
  #1039  
Brian Rawcliffe
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence


Hi Scott,i have just joined the forum,and the name is Brian.If you recall i met yourself and Greg last August at the Cosford LMA.show in the UKi was the pilot flying the Hawker Tempest mk11with the 150cc radial,that's another model for rcwarbirdbuilder to build.
I hope to contribute to the care and maintenence of that engine and my installation in due course,many thanks Brian.
ps.picture taken by Neil Huchinson.
Old 11-15-2010, 05:03 PM
  #1040  
Scott Prossen
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

I so remember you Brian! That was a great time and meeting you and the rest of the bunch made it even better. I love that plane of yours too! Steve Thomas know you right off the bat when I described you. Of course he passed on a big hello to his fellow English men! Can't wait to hear your future contributions. We need them all so please do when you can and spread the word over there to the others that might not already be aware of the site!

Thanks Brian,

Scott
Old 11-27-2010, 11:01 AM
  #1041  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Scott

I would like to thank you for this thread. Last summer I removed a DA 150 from an Aeroworks Yak 54 and installed a Moki 215 radial. I have read this thread from the beginning and it has been very hepful. I have not experienced any engine problems and the engine has performed right out of the box with no modifications such as the turbolator or fuel pump. I am recieving a Moki 250 from Vogelsang next week, which will be put in a CARF SU 31. In one of the posts on this thread, someone has attached a mounting template for the Moki 150. Do you know if anyone has a template for the 215/250? From reading this thread, the 250 will have the turbolator and the electric fuel pump.

I also have a building question regarding determining the proper amount of right thrust. Do you have a method or do you decide on an angle and then fly the plane and change the right thrust as needed?

Without this thread, I would not have came in contact with Goetz Vogelsang who in my opinion is one of the finest idividuals I have had the pleasure to talk to and do business with. I fully intend to give him all the word of mouth advertising I can.

Best regards,

Bruce Opsta
Williston, North Dakota
Old 11-27-2010, 02:34 PM
  #1042  
Jaketab
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Bruce,

I too have a new Moki 250 that I purchased last month from Vogelsang. I'll decide within the next month which airplane to pair with the engine.
The thurst angle for this engine is also a question I need resolved. I'm just guessing to start with 2 degrees, but would like to get it right the first time.

The attached spreadsheet file is an engine offset and thrust angle calculator that I made. You only need enter engine length, thrust angle in degrees, and width distance of the mounting holes at the firewall. Hope someone can test and confirm it's accuracy.
If the file doesn't upload with this post, send me a PM and I'll email it.

Lesson I learned when running-in the Moki on the bench stand. I used Yamalube for the 1st 3/4 gallon before switching to Castrol Power RS TT synthetic. The Yamalube gummed up 2 of the exhaust valves. After a good cleaning with a product called "Sea Foam," the engine is running well. Running the engine too rich on the low carb needle may also have contributed.

Lesson - run the oil recommended by Vogelsang from day one.
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/secti...tentId=7040552

Jaketab
Old 11-27-2010, 06:03 PM
  #1043  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Jale,
Got the file and saved it to my desktop. Many thanks.

I hear you on getting it right the first time. I hate do-overs. I don't know how many variables determine thrust angle for any given aircraft. The comp super extra I had listed 3.5 degrees in the manual and the manual also gave the exact measurement for the correct offset from the actual firewall verticle centerline and everything turned out perfect. Another example I have experienced was in my Aerworks 40% Yak 54. The right thrust was already built into the firewall at the factory and I do not know what the angle was. I had a Da 150 on it and then switched to the Moki 215. When pulling into verticle with the plane, it tracked straight up with both the engines and I would think the Moki would be putting out more torque than the DA 150. The comp su 31 is a fairly new addition to comp's line of aircraft so there isn't a lot of info out there for it. As soon as I get the Moki 250 and can get some measurements I will plug some numbers into the spreadsheet and see what happnes. I have a long winter to get it sorted out.

Thanks again,

Bruce
Old 11-28-2010, 10:10 AM
  #1044  
jeff naul
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Goetz, Well since there is a new company in the moki game maybe i can finally get some help.

Last week i got my 150 back on the engine stand and started going over things....first thing wrong was the same valve that has always stuck was of course STUCK!!
Second, the new hall sensor is hitting the cam still... this is the third one!! (there is .025 clearance without the o-ring.)

Troy built was saying that i must of had metal pieces that are going around the camshaft and thats what is wearing out the hall sensor. so i tore down the engine and of course found nothing. re-assemled and ran.. once the hall sensor wears down i start getting the hard miss and losing power.. Its to the point it's embarassing to fly because of the questions of why is it missing so bad!

Please help!! i have not been able to enjoy this engine after three seasons...these problems have been since the engine was in warranty. I asked troy built if i could write Moki a letter for help and of course got a NO! Serial # 150106
Old 11-28-2010, 10:22 AM
  #1045  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Shame you where not able to get it serviced long ago, I have been looking at the carf Corsair and the same story there about airlon and wing flutter, I was in the market for a Moki 150 as well, makes me just stand back and wait awhile before I buy, thanks for your disclosure.
Old 11-28-2010, 10:29 AM
  #1046  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Bruce,

Assuming the RCS is same as Moki, the attached is a measurement chart. For the 250, length = 8.1" and width of the mounting plate = 3.94".
However, if you use stand-offs or a spacer to get the engine hub past the cowl opening, you will add that dimension to the length.

Jaketab
Old 11-28-2010, 12:25 PM
  #1047  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Jeff, Goetz may or may not answer on the forum. Why not give him a call. He's great to talk to and knows more about these engines than anyone I've met. He'll probably want you to send the engine to him. He'll charge less than any other repair facility too. Good luck, Mitch
Old 11-28-2010, 12:52 PM
  #1048  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Jake,

I ran the numbers on your spreadsheet using 8.1" length plus 2.5" standoff and 3.5 degree angle. The numbers look reasonable.

Just curious if the Moke 250 you have is your first. If so, I will relate my first time with the Moki 215. First of all it ran right out of the box with the factory needle settings. I made the mistake of idling it too much on the first run and ended up with fouled plugs, however it turned a biela 32 x 12 three blade prop at 4650 rpm on the ground. I only have 6 flights on it as of now. It takes a lot of propping to start and I noticed the top cylinder is running 40 degrees hotter than the others so after landing I shut it down as soon as I can. I have not had any missing problems with it yet.

The new Moki 250 I have comming will be installed with the addition of the electric fuel pump from Goetz as well as the turbolator in front of the carb. The fuel pump should eliminate the hard starting and also allow cutting and plugging the clear plastic line going to the carb. This will eliminate a deadstick due to the plastic line being plugged with grease. The turbolator should help with getting a more even fuel mixture which hopefully result in a more even cylinder temp between all cylinders.

I used flex pipe from B&B specialties for routing the exhaust on the 215. It serves the purpose but kind a reminds me of having a Rolex watch and putting a Walmart wristband on it so the 250 will be getting the Zimmerman exhaust from Goetz.

Bruce
Old 11-28-2010, 07:06 PM
  #1049  
Jaketab
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Bruce,

Tested the calculator with drawings. On paper it's on the money.
Yes, this is my first radial engine.
I have the APS pump but not the Turbulator. Starts easy with or without the pump. The #3 cylinder is running much cooler as reported by others in this thread. After runnng several minutes the cylinder begins to pick up temp, but still runs cooler. Max rpm just after warm up is 4450 with a 32x18 SEP Prop. Rpm's decrease slightly with heat build up. When choking the carb there is some fuel that drips out. A velocity stack may help???
I have about 1-3/4 gallon through engine on bench and am satisfied with it's reliability. Ready to build. Only thing missing is a plane.

Hope others will comment on how much thrust angle they are using on the Moki 250.

Thanks - Jaketab
Old 11-28-2010, 09:39 PM
  #1050  
jeff naul
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence


ORIGINAL: nine o nine

Jeff, Goetz may or may not answer on the forum. Why not give him a call. He's great to talk to and knows more about these engines than anyone I've met. He'll probably want you to send the engine to him. He'll charge less than any other repair facility too. Good luck, Mitch
hey mitch I will call... but I hope somebody will nut up to Moki and say "hey we sent him a sensor in 08' while the engine was in warranty and two years later it's still tearing up sensors" Of course they want to charge me but what pisses me off is that this problem has been since the engine came out of the box. It's not about the money, I WANT MOKI TO FIX IT!!!!!! I got the b.s. lines from r/c showcase then passed on to troy built... always your battery or oil is the problem. Hell i had to figure out on my own how to time it because nobody on this continent knew anything about it. Everytime "I talked to these guy's I talked WAAYYYYY over their heads. But they would say send it in and we'll have a look....It would of sat over there for month's with them scratching their heads and I would of got some b.s. and a bill and a motor still not wright. This year it flew top gun, Mac's, Atlanta and one flight at home. The last day it flew I put a new hall sensor new plugs and it ran good for a few minutes till the sensor started coming apart then the missing and loss of power came. anyway I'm done ranting.

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