jlkonn, with the YS 110 I have 4 degrees right thrust. Its off to the side as far as will allow, but there is still a slight angle to my cowl to center the hub. Can't have it all I guess.

Raj, picked them up at the hardware store in the plumbing section. They are to secure 1/4 inch PVC tubing in place. Its what they use on the water line to a refrigerator. They are called P clips. I drill and thread my motor mount and do not pass through the mount arms with long bolts and lock nuts. The bolts bite into the mount arms fast and have never come loose. With the shorter bolts it left a threaded hole opposite the bolts so I just secured the P clips on the other side with short machine screws. Nice and tidy. Joe

Hey all. I also wanted to say that this was my first time to harrier land this plane and we got it on video at

http://www.tulsa3d.com/modules.php?n...wnload&cid=205 .

(videos 4, 5, and 6) I have heard a lot of people saying that this plane won't harrier. I don't even have my cg back on this plane and I am no great pilot. I was driving it all over the place in harrier. It does have wing rock, but, some of that is the pilot. I am getting better at controlling that. The inverted harrier is really pretty.

cumn thru.. so you actually fixed the ke rolling with the rudder mod? Is that hard to do for someone who is not a big builder? I pretty much would rather never build and only fly, but, I do want it to fly right. I coud not find your post on the rudder mods you made.

Here is what mine looks like presently. You could see the slight angle in the cowl and there is a pick of my pull/pull setup. Unfortunately, my library of mod pics is in a landfill somewhere locked in my old puter. Joe

Sorry, thats the old YS muffler on the Hatori header which proved to be restrictive. Here is the new setup with a Saito 180 muffler for better flow. Joe

Here is a fresh pic of the results of the mod. Originally I just peeled back the original covering, removed about 30 sq. in. off the top, added a new top rail and ironed the covering back on. I later refined it with a tapered trailing edge before I recovered the plane. Joe

Colby, what is your engine and prop setup like ? The harrier landing in the middle of video 6 was good.

And the end result was not roll tendency?

Also.. with the removal of surface area.. will it still knife edge loop? Currently.. it will pretty tight.

Nice pics, last time I saw her she was white with the red flames!!

ys 1.10 apc 17x4W on 30% (25% in this video b/c the 30% was sold out.. had castor too.. made a real mess).

Thanks rajul.. non of the video is all that good!! ha. It was my first time out to try most of it. Video 4 was me just forcing it in to get over my nerves of it. I have been able to refine much of this since then. Kind of embarrasing to show, but, I wanted to point out to people that it will harrier much better than you see in these videos even.

I do use a spoileron mix to elev at 100% reflex. I am trying to learn to hover with spoilers on so I can transition from harrier to hover at low altitudes w/o reaching up and hitting a switch.. that is why much of this was so up high and my hovers don't look that great. It takes some getting used to hovering with spoilers on.

Do you all paint out or tint your canopies?
Thanks!
JLK

It did a great job on eliminating roll coupling. Mixing will have the same results. The rudder has an 80+ sq. in. area and you won't notice the 30 sq. removed. I felt that the high profile of the rudder was what caused it to lean or twist.

Yeah Stoney, the flames were cool, but the visibility factor was worse than when it had the blue on it. I struggled with the blue on overcast days. I could see it well now. Joe

Paint. Krylon 'Fusion' specifically for plastic, although other Krylon works as well. I sand or etch the inside of the canopy with 120 grit paper for the paint to bite. The scratches dissapear once painted and resultes in a glossy finish when viewed through the clear exterior. Hold it on with canopy glue Super RC Z56. Takes forever to cure, but holds up very well. Joe

Thanks to ALL of you for the great information the last few days.
You guys are doing a log to ease my hand wringing!
Joe, if you were me, of course you haven't seen my plane, but knowing all you know about UCD's would you leave the 3 sets of washers in, use the Ernst's shim for side thrust only or...?
Thanks again!
JLK

Unfortunately there are no magic numbers with everything being relevant and all models not being equal. Close but not exact. This is how I would approach it, the longest, most tedious route.

#1- build and balance, not forgetting laterally.
#2- set up all control surfaces as mechanically neutral or equal as possible.
#3- take the plane up high and then point it down without throttle. If set up correctly the plane should come straight down. Considering the counter balance on the elevator and rudder, your chances of getting them even are very good, so we move on to the ailerons. If when coming down the plane favors the canopy or looks like it is going to pull out, the ailerons are too low in comparison to the incidence of the wing. Raise the aileron attitude. If on the way down it goes to the wheels, the ailerons are too high. You must make equal adjustments up or down on both sides until the plane comes straight down. Doing so a little at a time.
#4- fly the plane inverted and upright to determine the proper CG. When done correctly it should fly hands free in either attitude. This is not to determine the CG for 3D or anything else. Its the true CG of the plane relevant to your set up and weight distribution.
#5- now that the plane is set up as neutral as possible, from straight and level, add full power into an up line without any other control input. With the top of the plane facing you, watch where it goes. The rest is simple, but time consuming, as it is trial and error. If the plane goes to the left you need right thrust and vice versa. Once sorted out, pull another up line, this time looking at the side of the plane, if it favors the wheels or falls forward in a climb, you need up thrust and again, vice versa if it pulls to the canopy.
#6- with all this done, you should be able to go from level flight, at the slower end of cruising speed to full throttle without the plane pulling up, down, left or right.
Very time consuming, yet completely rewarding if done right. You will see the difference in a plane of any type that is set up properly. This is just the way that I go about it. Good luck, Joe

Here is some stuff I have been looking at:

Comments from Chip Hyde:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_21...tm.htm#2376557
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_16...tm.htm#1722059
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_24...tm.htm#2466612

Mike McConville:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_28...tm.htm#2803775
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_26...tm.htm#2656687

I don't know if there is an advantage for doing some of this built in to the plane as opposed to mixing etc. You have to take the comments in the context they were written too.

The Minister Of Aviation Lives
Thanks for helping him with the setup Joe, I could never have told him that the way you have. B...

It almost sounds like I should wait to drill the cowling mounting holes until after the first flight and some flight trimming.
Everyone's thoughts?
Thanks!
JLK

I think it flys 'dirty' without the cowl, but there are many here that never installed it on theirs with no problems. I think with the 100 it would be safe to start with 3 degree and if you have to add or subtract it will only be within 1 degree so the line up wouldn't be off by much.

I slaved my ailerons to my elevator yesterday 'flaperons'. I found that it was more effective in KE than with the elevator slaved to rudder. Made for some tight loops as well, just like a huge foamie. Joe

So.. with the new rudder design you were doing tight ke loops? I guess you were not dealing with any roll coupling on the high and low end b/c of that new design?

Also.. you were correcting the pitch coupling using just flaperons? I guess so you just would not have to correct as much? It certainly would not do it on it's own as is the idea behind rudder to elevator mix.. right? The rudder to elevator mix however I have never gotten to work for the full loop, but, I have not played with it enough to have it right at every speed either. I suppose I could turn on my flaperons along with my rudder to elev mix so the corrections would not be as large on that side of things.

The elevator would not be such a big problem though if I could get it to quit roll coupling on the top and bottom of the ke loop.

It is like a huge foamie on its rudder.. amazing authority there.

With this rudder size it will high alpha KE on low rates, which is set to about 35%. Not very good at KE loops with the UCD as I've been battling the dive to the wheels. On highrate rudder it will come right around very tight but falls out at the top. With the rudder slaved to the elevator, its speed sensetive, as I have not set all five points on the radio yet. What I'm saying is that with flaperons it was easy. Much less input to keep it from diving. The rudder to elevator mix was set up mainly for cross wind landings to keep it from diving in. The rudder mod was for roll coupling and there isn't any noticible difference in rudder authority.

Unless my plane is too heavy, I've always struggled with the recommended throws for this model, or maybe expecting too much at slightly higher speeds. Unless in a hover, I found that max elevator and rudder will snap this plane out. Rudder, meaning the wheel dive and elevator will snap it on tight loops. I will have to measure my throws, but they are not much. Joe

Yeah.. i have the same problem with ke loops, but, my rudd elevator mix is really close.. I am fighting the roll coupling. Sounds like your rudder mod completely eliminated the roll coupling for the ke loop. I would like to try it, but, I don't really know where to begin. How close is it in fixing roll coupling to just remove the top part of the rudder? Did the taper really do that much or was it mostly removing the top?

I think that I just flattened out the bottom a little. The base of the rudder is still 6-1/2 inches from hinge to trailing edge. At the top of the vertical stab where the rudder counters over the stab, its 6 inches from front to beck, horizontally. I angled the top edge, from front to back to give it a little more on the back side and so it wouldn't look like a 'flat top'. The results are that I do not mix the ailerons and corrections are normal for conditions, read wind direction. I like to tinker and do realize that the mods can be equaled just as well with a 'mix'. Joe

Joe,
Do you have a recommended method for attaching the cowling?
Just sent my radio off...again...after the repair facility missed the stick pot not being "zero'd". When you flip among the 3 aileron rates the ailerons would move from trim.
So...my test flight is postponed a couple more weeks.
Anyway, I would appreciate a durable method for attachement of the cowling.
Thanks!
JLK

As per the instructions in the manual. I go one step further and mark where the cowl mount blocks will go. Then, take a chisel or blade and scrape off the coating of sealant, what ever it may be, that protects the firewall from fuel damage. That way the epoxy is biting to the wood and not just glued on to the sealant. I also sand them to the curve of the cowl in the area where they are to be placed. Once glued and cured, seal them with polyurethane.

The instructions to mark the cowl for cut outs and hole placement of the mounting screws is the slickest trick in print. I often went nuts trying to transfer locations on to the cowl and it took 'Great Planes' to figure it out. I've used that method on every model since. I like to use small dowels around the hub to use as spacers against the inside of the hole of the prop opening.

Last but not least is a little device from PSP manufacturing. Cowl binders, been using these for over two years now and they are great. CNC machined neoprene, mated pieces, one male, one female that snap together and clamp the cowl forming a durable collar for the screw and rubber washer to pass through to secure the cowl fast. Never comes loose and will not chew a big hole around the screw from vibration.

www.pspmfg.com Pack of six for about $3.00 These are a 'must have' item. I tried every trick in the book to hold a cowl on, always with the same results. They would hold for a while, some methods longer than others, but in the end, the fastener would end up eating the holes bigger from vibration. Good luck with your radio, Joe

Ditto on the cowl binders from PSP, Joe told me about them about a year ago and I have since used nothing else. Good stuff!!