Let me start by saying I think the definition of extreme 3D is subjective some guys are using the OS 160, which flies it like a foamy, or more of an engine with wings...

So instead of saying buy this engine or buy that one I will just give a performance report. Can this plane with the 120AX combo do any maneuver traditional or 3D? Yes, absolutely without question. Pullout power is great, I can hover/torque roll with the 120 at about 1/3 throttle spinning an APC 17x6, (peak RPM with this combo is about 9000 at about sea level). Since the RPM max is 9500 I am going to try an APC 16.5x5 to see if I can gain a few more RPMs and improve throttle response. It takes just a hair longer to spool up than I like for super low 3D so I'm hoping this is an improvement in that area (I am pickier than most guys though). Overall this engine has amazing power, it is ported differently than the older 108, which had a higher RPM but less torque. I hear it was built to be a newer generation 2 stroke designed for today's flying styles (3D High Alpha) and to give the 4 strokes a run for their money. From my experience this has been the case plus the added benefit of fewer internal moving parts on a 2 stroker and it burns cheaper fuel; I use 15/15 PowerMaster.

You can also see pictures of how well this engine fits in the ST in my post on page 65 post number 1622. I love the fact that the lines are still clean and I don't have a huge muffler hanging out the bottom (except my rubber deflector).

As noted, both the 27% Extra 260 and the ShowTime come with the same tail wheel unit. I wasn't too impressed with quality of either, and after reading about the lack of durability on other threads, I replaced both during the respective builds; the Extra with an Ohio Products Haigh unit, and the ST with a home-made rig using some of the supplied pieces/parts.

I used the supplied H9 springs on the home-made ST job; they finally failed last week-end. The supplied springs lasted about a dozen flights on the Extra; makes sense it is a heavier model. But I'm done with tail wheel springs. Its worth the extra bit of time to fabricate a workable solid pushrod during the build, which saves aggravation later when you're trying to fly.

thanks

Guys:

I have spent the last few days dremmelling out the tail area and gluing in my stabs and checking and rechecking the incidences. I have every surface within about .4 degrees of eachother and that will do for me. I wanted to point out something that I realized when adjusting and measuring these things. I have not had an elevator this big before and the moving surface (elevator) seems about twice or greater than the area of the non-moving surface (stabilizer) -- therefore, I noticed that the largest changes in incidence were produced by the smallest movement of the elevator -- not the larger movement of the stabilizer -- eg: I would move the stabilizer pin location up by 1/8 of an inch and produce something like .5 degree difference and would have the elevator off by a hairline -- I mean hairline and it would produce the same .5 degree difference -- those who are doing this mod should measure about 25 times before mixing the epoxy together -- I scared myself pretty bad when I checked the tail after it dried and found to my horror I was off by 1.8 degrees on the other side -- I just didn't have the elevator perfectly aligned.

Maiden flight will be tomorrow if I can balance the plane without incident.

Steve
Could you post a picture of that second tailwheel more from the back? I was looking at it and I don't understand the pushrod to the rudder. I may be looking at it wrong. Just curious. Thanks

Here ya go, Nate.

The tail wheel was turned by a machinist buddy with too much time on his hands... the "tire" is an O-ring.

The same guy made the yoke, after I discussed the problem with him. He's a freakin' magician a far as I'm concerned.

The rest of the rig was cobbled together from stuff out of my junk box and the kit-supplied c/f bracket and steering tiller arm. The yoke rides on dual ball bearings, little tiny suckers (3mm i.d.) that came out of a helicopter rotor head mixing base. The ball link pushrod and balls are spares that I had lying around from another helicopter. I was into helis strong for a long time, and accumulated quite a bit of exotic small goodies like this that have come in handy on airplanes.

This rig has worked like a champ, and held up very well. As noted, at first I used the kit-supplied springs for connecting the rudder to the assembly, and they did fine; right up until one broke. I really dislike the spring idea; I realize it is to prevent damage to the rudder servo, but in the first place I wonder just how big of a deal that is (as long as you land properly, anyway); and in the second, I have a very powerful digital rudder servo on this model (and the Extra). I dislike even more having to rig up some Rube Goldberg arrangement at the field, so I can still fly after something has failed. These are not the first models I've put solid tail wheel steering pushrods on; I can only wonder why I didn't do it on these to begin with...

While most of the hardware that comes with these two H9 offerings is usable, and in some cases even pretty good, they really missed the boat with that tail wheel assembly, IMO.

I like that. Looks like you shouldn't have any problems with it breaking the wheel off. And your steering should definitely be controllable.

Hello I just ordered a S.T with a Saito 125 and Hitec 645's all around. I was just wondering if some one could summerise this thread for me cause Its 68 pages and im not about to read it lol . Just any bad habbits or any thing I should do or know before building or flying.

Thanks alot

Matt

Reinforce firewall. That's about it. It has neutral handling, and with a 125 put the rudder servo in the fuse as pull pull.

I got mine last summer, over 40 flights on it so far. I made no modifications. Didn;t touch the firewall. I used a single servo mounted in the tail for the rudder.
I am using the TT120 2 stroke. I have experienced the issue where the plane does not leave the ground even at full throttle it hugs the ground. I compensate for that with about 20 degrees of flaprons on takeoff. and it takes off at 1/3rd throttle. other than that the plane is a Gem. flies really nice pattern.

I'm running mine with a Saito 150, it flys great but yes I did notice this tendancy to hug the ground... Doesn't seem to want to lift off as early as you would think so be careful with that at first.

I have a YS 110/APC 17X4W with no mods, built to the plans... I did change the tank, and
stretched the tail wheel springs to reduce the tension at full rudder... Also glued in the stab..
and as I always do, I added C.A. to exposed and stress areas of the plane.. I was going to
check the incidence... But it was a no go, So she just got glued together... No problems to
date... I really do not notice any problems on T.O., I guess it does have a bit longer T.O.
run?? But... It flys really nice and lands great so far(65+ flts) it's done all I can make her
do and she does it well.. She does show your "not so smooth moves" [>:]

Hello all I just got mine last Friday, I already have a YS 110 so I still need the rest. I do like Steve Campbell tail wheel setup <You Da Man> so I will work on something alike, sure I don't have a Wiz like your friend [8D] but I'll find something that work. I was looking to have this plane since last year so I did read the 68 pages a few time, I understand you Matt, now my mind is overload lol [sm=spinnyeyes.gif] I do have a few questions but I'll ask them as I go, my first, is there any reason other than pressure issue to not use the fuel tank that came with the ST and using the YS? That's for now, Im working on finishing a room on the house to be my work area and hangar so I whon't be able to start the building part for a few more weeks, hope to soon be active in the forum.

Fernando

Including myself my club has 5 St's and all of run the same setup on the tailwheel. We all used the tailwheel provided and have no problems. We used the pull pull rudder bolt with the servo in the rear, first we reduced the tension on the springs by stretching them and then secured them by wrapping them around the bolt and added a nut to make sure they stayed. The fellows that are flying the 110 used the stock tank with any any incident.

This was discussed last year, possibly farther back in this thread; don't remember.

The reason the airplane tends to "stick" on take-off is due to the nearly flat angle of attack caused by the tall tailwheel. With hardly any positive angle of attack on the take-off run you have to coax it off the deck. No big deal, as long as you're aware of it. There were lots of complaints about "jumping jack take-offs" (caused by guys getting alarmed and snatching a lot of up elevator near the end of the runway), but it can be dealt with with.

Another advantage of my lowered tail wheel is I don't see this; the model lifts off as smoothly and gently as a real airplane.

Matt, I think we're running the same setup. I have the 125 w/ 645 servos. I bought my airframe used so it saved me some build time and since it was set up for rudder servo in the tail, I just left it there. It didn't have wheel pants which didn't matter because I fly from grass alot so I put 3.5 lite wheels on it and pants to fit them (they look more scale on it). It added a little dead weight, but not enough to matter with the 125. It balanced spot on with the battery by the fuel tank. I just switched from a 16X4W to a 17X4W. The 16 revved too high on level flight and the 17 seems to load it better. It's my favorite plane to fly. I did crank the throws down a bit from the book as they were way too high for me. Up until yesterday, I hadn't messed with the throws but I wanted to add a little rudder for a knife edge loop and a cranked the elevator up too. I will say it definitaly made it snap more, so I think I gave it too much. I backed it down a little and it's fine now.

Alright now fellas:

My maiden flight and I will first say that I brought the Showtime home with the correct number of pieces. Now, with that said, I must tell you guys that I subscribe to the 3d forum and have a 3d (or 4d if you prefer) airplane not because I am a 3d pilot -- I just want to be. I am not a very good pilot -- just alright -- I don't crash the airplanes, but have not had one yet that is capable of 3d maneuvers. Anyways, I think I will use an incidence meter to set throws from now on -- the plane needed one click of right and two clicks up and was perfect -- I was kind of nervous about that because of the large surfaces. I had the high rates set at the recommended "low rates" and had the low rates on my transmitter set to what amounts to 25% of the 3-d rates per the manual with 60% expo. It was pretty challenging for me to control the plane on high and I was much more comfortable on my home-brew low rates. I beleive that my cg is too rearward -- when I roll inverted it loses altitude and requires a firm down elevator to maintain level. Weird though, because on landing it seemed a bit tail heavy -- what do you guys think?

The YS is now tuned to perfection and was awesome

I would think that if it requires firm down elevator for level flight inverted then the plane is nose heavy and the CG needs to be moved aft.

Thanks a lot guys ! What is this talk about the tail wheel and the springs I didnt really understand that?

Thanks Matt

Some folks have had issues with the kit-supplied tail wheel unit; others have not.

Some of us who either had issues, or believed what they read about other's issues, replaced and/or modified the supplied unit.

How is the method of mounting the stabs with the 4-40 bolts holding up for people who are really throwing the plane around?

overnout... My bolts were holding good ( but I never removed them after install) But my
tube started getting some play at the fuse, (the pins looked good and tight) I would say
at 15 or so flts... I don't think others has had that problem?? I even added some glue inside
on the fuse/tube holder during the build.. And it was never hit??? So I ended up glueing
mine in.. No more problems to date..

Sime pics of mine:

HoverLoW...

Nice pictures...How do you take those while you are flying? I always crash while focusing the camera.

Thanks
Barry

LOL!!

I have a friend how toke this pics!!

He have a Nikon and always catch nice moments with it!!!