Wow,,, Wow,,, Wow,,,,, DownT,, you make me proud.

I do believe I saw a twist Wing in that ...................... The double headed dragon is very cool indeed.

Prophanger, I have the GP Ultimate Bipe 40, it was a fun build for sure, and it flys awesome, but there were a few things you would like to do different during the build to make life a little easier, I posted some Tips on the ultimate Bipe page, The 4 star 40 was a very easy build and I loved that plane for 7 years or so, a little more basic though, not really 3D, but highly acrobatic if you like to push the envelope, And I don't care how much time I put in a bird, I know its going to be planted into something at one time or another, but remember, the rebuild is ALWAYS a lot quicker then the original build.

I like to call the Sig Kadet the original first 3D plane, I know what your all thinking (he's out of his mind) but that plane on a good 20 MPH windy day would harrier and hang right in front of you at full bore going into the wind, you can fly that plane like a kite,,,, I have landed that plane like a helicopter countless times, of course I have seen them hit the ground too, and there is a lot of sticks to that plane, and they all come out at impact. [X(]

My next project after the US 1000 I'm finishing up will hopefully be a Cardinal Edge or a Cap 580, I think they are the best choices for a Highly acrobatic 3D adventure, I have to save lots of pennies for that though, so for now I've seen the Ucan do, the Matrix, Katana, & Funtana in action, but for the buck and the glory, I have to say the Twist has it, in my eye anyway, there is not a plane that can compare to the action of a Twist at our field anyway.

Tim, Waldo, Gary, Ernie, Dean, Jim... you heard him. DownTrodden needs help cleaning out his shop of all his RC stuff. Now I KNOW he has one flyable .61 Twist, a so-so UCD .60 with a new Super Tigre G-2300 (16x4w APC prop), at least two transmitters, oodles of receivers and servos, the Spad, a fast Sea Bee, a Funtana that needs help, TWO unflown Goldberg Ex-Treme 540s, one still in the box, like the trainer in the pic, and about 2000 bucks worth of Li-Po, Ni-Cad, and NiMH bats in there, plus gosh knows how many engines, electric and glo. I say we round up a couple of U-Hauls and help him. His wife and kids will assist with loading, too. We don't have to worry about the toothless, but noisy, poodle (small). But DO watch out for the coo-coo clock. It's got a sharp beak and a very long reach--every half hour.

What say you? [He "knows" he needs help--and that's a first.]

J

Waldo, you really have to see someone good fly the OMP Katana V2 .46. I fly it with an OS .50SX. I didn't like it for the first 15 flights or so, then it began to demand my time--and teach me. Now I'm teaching IT. I've mistreated it (since Jan. 17, 2006) more than my Twists (and I've bought THREE Twists since that time). I don't wish to touch your love of the Twist. I still love mine, have two flyable, but that Katana gets more flight time now. I reckon I have about 60+ flight hours on it, giving it a 4 cent/minute cost--and it's still going.

When I put the Kat in, I'll buy another. Consider the Goldberg 330 Edge--unless you REALLY want a bigger plane.

Oh, I forgot Down's Sig Kadet. The last time I saw it we were doing an autopsy on it at Ewert's field. The RX bat soured; Down lost control; the Kadet (meant to be Down's camera platform, built of the finest of everything) augured in at 90+ mph, straight down. The wings came off before it hit--and I saw the number of sticks it made, Waldo. Wow. The cause was a bad NiMH battery, a crossed wire somewhere--Down discovered later, a pinhole burned in the covering.

J

No problem! I'll even bring my trailer. We probably shouldn't tell him we're coming though. It'd ruin the surprise.[X(]

Jack,
You are correct, always to the right. It's not too awful bad because at least it's predictable. I can't quite picture how you tried the carbon fiber rods. Is it the flex of the stab/elevator? Definitely something to ponder. I guess I'll turn down the rates a little, because I know I can't make my thumb behave.

Waldo,
Thanks for the info. I'll have to check out the thread. I've been thinking about it for quite some time.

Dean, that snap is as predictable as anything the Twist does. The problem, and please don't forget, are in those moments of angst, when the bird is coming down from something you tried to do that didn't work--or DID work and you forgot about altitude, mesmerized watching it. You yank in desperation at the elevator to get her up and BLAM! she snaps right--then down--faster than you know. I've had two pretty good crashes doing exactly that--in the snow.

I know what you mean about the flexibility of the elevator. I FIRST thought maybe the control wire was bending--hence the carbon fiber idea. I suspect the reason the U Can Dos have TWO servos, each driving a separate side of the elevator, was designed to prevent that snap problem. I've been thinking of a dual drive system that goes THROUGH the fuse to drive both elevators with the same servo.

OR... you simply educate your thumbs. I love to do a rectangle with all my birds: 10 feet altitude into the wind, hard up (but not TOO hard) on the ele to vertical, then hard up to put her on her back for a bit, then hard down toward the ground, then hard up to put her, at 10 feet, straight and level, right over the field again. Impressive, fast or slow, keeping the lines straight. The Twist does it, but the Katana does it better--and no propensity to snap.

Worst thing, with the Twist, is all is going so fine, confidence up, Twist performing at peak, then you don't. That moment comes at the most unpredictable times.

J.

I was worried about the control wires being so small, so when I built this one, I slid carbon fiber tubing over them and glued them in place to keep the wires from flexing. I just went out to the shop and looked at the elevator rod and the carbon fiber is cracked the full length. So...I guess I'll be replacing that this week. My Harmon Rocket has dual elevator servos, and I do not see the same problem, however it is not nearly as acrobatic as the twist. Nowhere near the amount of control surface or throws. I too thought about the dual elevator servos. With the saito 82 weight up front I could probably do it pretty easy, but I'm still seriously considering the OS .61 which you and Down have been speaking so highly of. Could it still balance with the OS and an additional servo in the tail?

Also, what prop are you all using on your OS .61?

Yeah, Dean, nobody warned me, either, about the expansion of JB Weld, which I suspect you used between the rod and the carbon fiber. You DON'T have to remover the carbon fiber. Just make a fly fisherman's coil on both ends and the center, CA them, and it will hold--keep the rod from bending, DESPITE the crack. You may not even have to use the fly fisherman's coil since the rod is really doing the work anyway--and JB Weld is strong. If you see something black fall off the Twist, you'll know the JB Weld didn't hold, but the ROD will still be there--and not endanger the plane or anyone else.

Ah, I ALSO have a Saito 82 on a Twist. It's become a hangar queen, since the .61 (with an APC 13x4 (summer) or Master Airscrew 13x5 (winter) prop, is such a more versitile, economical, and accomplished bird. I'm STILL running a 13x5 on my .61 Goldberg 540--engine managing okay, not overheating... yet.

I asked Down about his bird tonight, too--and that snap. His does, too. He just doesn't hit the rudder hard, ever. I asked a pro, Mike Lucier, Weak Signals, Toledo, (which club hosts the Toledo Exposition every year), about the snap problem. HE is the one told me to reduce the throw on the ele. I believe he said most airframes have the same problem--too much wind moving over weak balsa.

Try this with your 82: going horizontal at full throttle, execute a roll, full stick throw, either direction. Then go at half throttle and execute the same maneuver. You'll see at full throttle the bird will roll about HALF as fast as at half throttle: too much pressure on those huge surfaces. Something's got to give. With the elevator at full throw up, you get a snap right.

Somebody, please, explain that to me. Since the horn is on the LEFT side, making it LESS flexible, WHY does the plane snap to the RIGHT? Intuitively, it SHOULD snap to the left, the strong, inflexible side.

J

I was able to maiden a plane this evening for an audience of 30 girl scouts. The plane.........EP Flatana.........how was it? Good for confined spaces, but a delicate design. Ony the lightest of landings and those would have to be harriered or the plane's fuse will be in pieces. $150 worth of LiPo's gets you almost 45 minutes of flight. You be the judge. (I had the girls complete attention for all of four or five minutes) lol GIRLS!!! Now if that was boyscouts.........lol.......maybe ten?

Peace.

Downtrodden.

I hope you were promised some good GS cookies when their out next season for supplying the entertainment.
I have a Huge band Trailer that can handle your whole shop DownT you just let me know when

A friend of mine does have a Kat, and maybe I was just being harsh earlier, but it does compare a lot like the Twist in its performance. and I was thinking of the 330 edge, I really want the 40 something % Cardinal edge, But I don't have $8,000.00 for the kit I wanted, I don't think i would be married either after that purchase, completed is only $13,000.00 I really don't see the problem

Jack I meant to tell you , you see that little pic to the left of this post, that was a duel system for the elevateor with one servo, I believe thats why that pic had originated,

you have one push rod hooked to the servo and goes back to the ele. then the other side comes in to almost where the servo is and attaches to the beginning of the other control rod before the servo arm, using 2 wheel collers to hold her together, hence 2 rods being pushed by one servo, maybe I should have soldered them. I think this is what failed on my US 40 to cause Homers almost terrible death, luckily he was able to eject on impact before the rubble burried him in. so if it wasn't for the US 40 duel pushrod 1 servo elevator system, I would never have bought the Twist, funny how fate works, taint it...

Fellas I think Jack is out to get me! Get this. I ask everyone there if it's ok if I cross the field and get some head-on shots with Jack's camera as he wanted some of him with his bird close in, right? After receiving their ok I walk to the swale and crouch for the shots as Jack comes in for a fast inverted fly by. As I'm thinking to myself that I'll never be able to focus fast enough, I peek my head out from behind the lens just in time to dive for cover! Jacks flying his 540 wide open right at me! Thank goodness Jack is a terrible shot, otherwise my new name would be Gashes. Less than 5 paces away lies his mangled plane. Needless to say, I took cover under my table the next time he went into the air, but I'm home safe now!

There were just too many variables at the field for me to put up my Hirundo, namely inexperienced flyers, multiple birds in the air and of course Jack! Could you imagine what an easy target I would make as I focused on a bird many hundred feet away? No Thanks!

Then............Rick and Kevin take to the air and experience a midair. Kevins Fazer goes in with minimal damage (detached and broken horizontal stabilizer) and Rick hastily lands his 540 and flattens the landing gear.

It must have been over 70 degrees today as I had to switch the 13x5 MAS for a 13x4 APC....much improved performance with a marked decrease in vertical thrust....it'll have to do. I got spoiled using the MAS since October...it sure is a great prop when it's cool.

I'll be watching my back from now on. We even had one guy who laughed as he straiffed the pit area, but I think Jack was giving him pointers as I saw him talking to him a number of times in hushed tones.

Peace.

Downtrodden.

I'm afraid that I have no idea what a fly fishermans coil is. I live in Oklahoma, the only fly's we fish with are swarming around our heads. The carbon rods I used fit perfectly over the wires, so I just tacked them there with CA. No JB weld. All the others are fine except for the elevator one.

It's interesting about the full throttle rolls versus the half throttle rolls. I guess maximum deflection is not always best. I'm going to experiment this weekend. I also think that the saito will be coming out as soon as I get another bird that can use all that power. Just not sure what yet. Thanks for the recommendation on prop size. I'll have to check and see what tower coupons I have.

Dean, you didn't use JB Weld, hm? Then I don't understand why the carbon fiber rod split--unless, when you put the rod through, you cut one of the long fibers and weakened it. Can't see how CA would enlarge and break it. That stuff can be fragile if in any way those fibers are clipped--as with sharp threaded rods being pushed through them.

The fisherman's coil: forgive me I don't know the proper name of that knot, but most fly fishing rods have them. I googled "knots" and didn't find it. Maybe you can get luckier.

Here's what to do (if I can do this without graphics): take a 15 inch piece of very tough thread (fishermen use common sewing thread, but you can get thicker stuff, but common thread WILL work). With your left thumb, press one end of the line on the rod, starting where you want the coil and leaving about three inches of line under your left palm. Make a 2 inch loop running along the rod. holding the "top" ends of the loop under your thumb. Squeeze the bottom of the loop so it is very narrow, making two parallel lines. Then you have a thin loop running along the rod with a three inch tail under your left palm and the other, long tail, hanging down from the thumb. With your right hand, starting at your left thumb, wind the LONG tail tightly over the loop and rod time and again, going from left to right. It will look like a spring wound around the rod. Keep the coils reasonably tight so they secure the loop and don't go over one another. When you get about 1/4 inch of coiling along the rod, you'll still have a loop to the right. Take what's left of the long tail and thread it THROUGH the remainder of the loop.

This is tricky. While keeping the coils tight, slide your left thumb over them and press to secure them. Pull the long tail (now considerably shorter) tight. THEN grab both tails and pull. If you've done it right, the thread will look like a tightly wound spring around the rod. Keep pulling (but don't break the line; good luck) The coils will bunch together and the previously LONG tail will actually go under a coil or two, held tight.

Trim off both the long and short tails. Voila, you have what I call a fly fisherman's coil, tight around the rod. CA it. You can make the coil as long as you need... a quarter inch, 3/8ths, 1/2 inch, whatever you think you need and can execute.

[Maybe some good samaritan here can find a link to graphics for this execution. I don't think it's really a "knot."]

It takes some practice to keep the coils adjacent and not falling all over. And if you let the left thumb loose, the whole thing falls apart. You may want to TAPE-tack the bottom of the loop to the rod. It'll help you get started right. But it is a very efficient and super strong way to keep a split rod from splitting more. It's a knot worth some time learning, like the bowline--for other purposes.

My words seem clear to me, but I've done it many times. My wife got it on the second attempt. Try it. You'll hate me--but if you get that coil right, you won't have to worry about the split carbon fiber.

Jack (believe me, I'll hear you cursing me as you try that coil the first couple of times :-) )

Or, he can wind some good carpet thread or kevlar fishing line (spider wire) around each end of the tube and CA it. Small pieces of brass tubing with an I.D. the same as the carbon tube's O.D. and used as ferrells on each end. Peace.

Waldo, thanks for the graphic. Oddly, that's precisely the way the Model Tech 300 is built to put a horn on both sides of the elevator, driven by ONE servo. My Voyager Long E-Z has a different method to control the canard, which is really where the "elevator" is, the trailing edge of the canard. They use a rod (imagine the wing rod for the Twist, but longer) but in the middle of the rod they've soldered or brazed an arm, to which a servo in the center of the forward section is connected. That arm drives the elevator on the canard.

Guys, I really blew it. I had a chance to help my best bud lose some weight (like his head) and missed the opportunity. I will NEVER let a man get opposite me on the field again. Breaks all the AMA rules, anyway. We had three of us up at once: mistake #1 if I'm going to do some chancy maneuvers. Then, mistake #2, Down said he was going into the swale so he could get "better" pictures. See the way he lined up me, the bird, and the camera. Would have been really great if I hadn't lost focus, got really scared with Down in the background; engines and birds all over the air. Discombobulation and dumb thumb followed. Result: crash, at speed!--within 15 feet of Down.

I have never seen a big man move so fast--from sitting on his butt. Whoa!

We can laugh now, but I'll never do that again. Stupidity from arrogance/overconfidence. Familiarity breeds contempt.

Great day of flying otherwise: great weather; 5 pilots, 13 birds; 11 birds home safe, 1 virtually destroyed (my 540 Edge), one fixable.

Waldo, I'm ordering the Goldberg 330 Extreme today, 3.5 lbs. It's lighter than the 540 and cheap at 80 bucks. I think I'll put an OS 50SX on her. I'm not willing to invest money in the really big birds yet--and might face divorce, like you, if I did.

[Gary the pic of Down's foamy pross with The Lady is for you. Yeck.]

Fly on,
J

Addendum: I added a picture of Down's foamy "prostitute" next to The Lady, his Twist. I am convinced putting the Lady next to the pross is why The Lady gave him so much trouble he had to change her prop. Paybacks are hell, Down.

Vitually Destroyed? Obliterated, trashed, wasted, kaput! More like!

Jack. The 540 is still yours if you want it.....good plane to put together on a rainy day. I'll be home for an hour or so.


Oh, the T_ _ _ T didn't give me any trouble,but it did take a well-trained ear to hear the subtleties of pitch the engine was producing, which had me replacing the prop. Unlike Jack, I don't attribute superstition as being the force that necessitates change, but rather sound logic based on a wealth of experience. mmmmmmmboy As for the foamie, I admit she's a delicate bird, but did you notice how Carl's wife put her crosswords down and so visibly enjoyed her flight? After each flight I can handle her and not be covered in a slimy residue, and you have the audacity to call her a harlet? Look at your hands after you handle that worn-out old broad you call the Katana! You might want to wear some latex protection (gloves......what were you thinking) the next time you handle her....that way you won't catch something.

Peace.

Downtrodden

All my birds made it home safe that day........'nough said? *whistling merrily*

Now that sounds like an adventurous day,

Good moves there DownT, Maybe Next Time Jack...

I've only encountered a near face chopped up experience once, I called "I'm out on the runway" to go and retreive my plane after dead sticking in, another friend obviously didn't hear me and proceded to land his plane, A friend of mine was standing next to me and said very calmly,, "Joe Duck" I looked up and a 40 sized plane was right at my head, all I could do was drop straight to the ground from a kneeling position. I don't know how it missed me. I was a little freaked out and yelled at my friend for a few minutes, then immediatly apologized to him and said sorry but you just scared the living C$%# out of me.. and yes we laughed about that for years, and still do actually.

Jack,
The instructions you gave me were great. I understood everything up to "take a 15 inch piece of thread. I did print the instructions and will give them to a friend who may be able to translate, as he was in the navy. I will get if figured out. Thanks for the help. I think you'll like the Extreme 330. Built one for a friend and have flown it several times. It handles really well. You may need to do some trimming to get the 50 in there. We did on his model.

I still have about 3 feet of carbon fiber tubing left so I'll probably just replace it, wrap it, and CA it (thanks Down) for now and see how it holds up to that.

Here's a drawing of the whipping used to keep the end of a rope from horse tailing. I think the same technique is used on fishing rod eyes.

Prop,
Jack sat on my couch this afternoon and was trying to pry from my lips the name of this elusive knot. After questioning him it turns out that what he was trying to describe was not really a knot at all, but rather a wrapping technique used in flyrod/fishing rod building. (Attaching the line guides to the rod blank as well as producing an asthetically pleasing transition to the ferule at the joining ends of the rod blank.) To his credit it would strengthen the carbon tube, but since it required that the material pass underneath itself it would not be in as close contact with the carbon fiber tube as if you simply wrapped it, as I previously mentioned.

You can gauge for yourself the cleavability of the carbon tubing, by taking a scrap of it and splitting it with an knife blade. Although it makes sense to create the tube by alternating the direction of helically laid carbon fibers, this turns out not to be the case in the carbon tube I've used. All of it has been laid down parallel to the length of the tube....ridiculously weak for some applications. I still haven't figured out the genius behind that decision with regards to using it in the hobby industry. It should also be mentioned that carbon fiber should be cut with a high speed cutoff wheel to ensure the integrity of the ends, which are the most vulnerable to the initiation of splitting. I did exactly what you did, only I wrapped the ends and CA'd them with fantastic results. I hope this is of some help. As with all things...technology doesn't always trasition well between applications, and by all means consider this one man's opinion.

Peace.

Downtrodden.

Dean, you "understood everything up to 'take a 15 inch piece of thread....'" That far, huh?

Thanks, Tim, for the graphics, rope whipping, indeed, and I have used it for that purpose, too. "Whipping" is a kinda anti-intuitive name. Now I don't feel so bad not recalling it.

Jack, you should have seen what I turned up with a Google Image Search for "whipping". There might be a change in life style in my future.

Tim, I don't think we want to go there--"whipping" on google. HmmmHMM! And don't change an IOTA of who you are. We like you fine just that way. :-D