knucklebutt

Thats kinda why I was asking

I have the 170 in a Waco UPF 7 I use the Maxx products on board glow. Not so much to keep the plugs lit but for starting purposes. Mine ran well for over a year but lately its been in the shop 3 times in the last three months when they work their great !!!



Denis

njmheli

Hi Paul.

Many thanks for your comments.........she should be ready for her maiden in a couple of weeks,will post some photos of her being completed and I hope flying.I am just finishing off the last gear door,awaiting the "N" numbers from Charles at CFC Graphics for the wings,then the all important C of G.........!!!!! ( have ordered a GP C of G balancer.........hope that will be good for it !!! )
As said in my post above,the FA 200 R3 should have more power that the 170,I hoping that the 17 x 8 prop will work very well........
We have a small club ( only 10 of us ),and we are very lucky to fly off a disused airfield ( 1 1/4 mile long strip ).........so shouldn't be a problem with take off length I hope !!!
I read your posts on the weight problem..........I have 3 x 5 cell Nimh battery packs,packed right up against the firewall,they fit in a treat in the structure on the inside of the fuzz,two of these supply the powersafe spektrum Rx,the other pack suppling volts to the "down and locked" electrics ( decided to use a stand alone battery set up for the U/C ) and tail wheel servo.......making good use of all that battery weight.
I hoping that I won't need too much additional nose weight...........if any??? ( not too much room left to put any in !!! )

Having read all the Staggerwing treads.............and obviously your flying experience..........how does she fly and any do's or dont's that you can tell me about.From the U tube vids,looks like she flies well and landing looks to be quite fast,any trends to drop a wing on slowing.......?Does she have the usual Bi-plane drag problems ( I havn't flown bipe's before ).

Your answers will be greatly appreciated.........

Many thanks

Nick (UK)

mobyal

Paul -
Doesn't look like I'm going to make Perry this Spring, but a couple of us are still talking about coming down, so you never know.
Best
Al

kochj

I believe the saito 325 radial is the only saito radial, that has a Tubinator. This looks like a flywheel, and flings the fuel around, so it disperses better...
I believe this one runs well w/o on-board glow power....
It also has twin plugs....10-glow plugs in total...

Not sure if the saito 200 triple, has this or not....
Looks like a fantastic engine....I think it is perfect for this plane....


Also.....
The syssa Sap 180 will be Perfect for this plane.....
Should give great power, with just a little extra, to get you out of trouble, if need be...

GaGeeBees

My Feedback: (23)

Nick,

Sorry for the delayed reply. I agree with you that the new 2.00 radial will be a better fit both in terms of power and weight. 17x8 sounds about right for the prop but you may want to experiment to find the optimum. I have no experience with that engine yet. The plane flies very well and I haven't noticed any bad habits. It "feels" a little heavy in terms of wing loading so I've never let it get very slow for landing. It's got plenty of drag - like most biplanes do - and slows down pretty quickly when you back off on the throttle, so the flaps aren't absolutely necessary, but I do use them. I've not seen it drop a wing at stall speed, it just mushes along and wants to drop the nose. I prefer to keep a little speed and fly it all the way to touchdown and let it roll out on the mains. Looking forward to hearing about your maiden. Do a thorough ground test of that engine before you go up! Good luck.

Paul

rslstft

My Feedback: (10)

Nick,
I agree with Paul, mine flies "heavy" also. I prefer to keep the speed up and in the landings too as she does slow down quickly. The flaps work well, with very little elevator coupling needed. Mine seems to need quite a bit of rudder in the turns to make them look good, I'm not sure about others. Paul? I have the Robart retracts in mine and haven't had even 1 little problem with them in over 100 flights, and they seem to make a good bit of speed difference when retracted. I've heard one of the local hobby shops has one in stock, may check into it as this is one of my favorite planes. Good luck and keep us informed.

GaGeeBees

My Feedback: (23)

Re: needing rudder in turns. Yes, a little rudder helps. I have 30% mixed in with the ailerons.

njmheli

Hi Paul / Russ

Many thanks for your comments,all noted and very much appreciated...............Maiden is coming up very soon now,just got to wait for the weather here in the UK to get a bit better in the way of seeing some sushine and puffy white clouds !!!

I have finished the Staggerwing now................flying weight is a hefty 21lbs,I needed to add 13oz of lead to the nose ( nice,neat little square of it all wrapped up in black insulation tape and mounted with a hole through it and tapped a tread into the firewall and used a M3 bolt plus double sided foam mounting tape ),this fitted very nicely behind and between the Saito engine mounting.

Charles at CFC supplied me with the "N" numbers and I have to say his work is FIRST CLASS,they finish off the Staggerwing a treat !!!

I balanced the Staggerwing at 5 1/2" as per what people have done according to the threads,used my Great Planes balancer ( bowed a bit under the weight !!! ),but found this device to be very easy to use and accurate in setting up the distance from the leading edge.

Paul............you may be pleased to hear ( so far ),that the Saito 200 R3 started very easily and is very,very smooth...............and no on board glow used !!!I have decided to change the prop to 17 x 6 and try that,although I will be doing more ground runs ( with the cowl off..........to aid cooling ),before she takes to the air.I would like to get at least two tanks through her first.

couple more questions for you and Russ ;.........are you flying with the advised throws,elevator throw appears as advised not alot !!! The ailerons,have you used EXPO on these as they appear to be quite "sharpe"..........I have set at the moment about 40%,but I will not use rates as I prefer to just have max travel set all the time.

Russ............your Staggerwing looks great in the air,many thanks for showing the photo's of her........

I will post some pics of the Staggerwing as finished and try to get some "vid" of the DOWN and LOCKED gear posted for you to see.........

Many thanks again for your advise..........will keep you updated !!

PS : Russ,was that a complete kit you heard was for sale ...?


Cheers..........Nick (UK)

knucklebutt

Nick I agree with all the others, mine came out at 20 lbs power is a O.S. 160 twin, plenty of power for me, (I do tend to fly at scale speeds) although I do fly off an asphalt runway. Full power for take off (slowly as torque will pull this short nosed plane to the left, back to 2/3 on climb out. Landing typical for a 20 lb, a click or two of power untill about 2 feet off the runway. I have been doing 3 point but will be practicing wheel landings as the short nose moment make for a very bouncy landing at time.

Elevator Note !!!! I tested mine with high rates on the elevator !!! what a ride, very pitch sensitive !!!!!!! I quickly switched to low rates (probably between 10 & 15 deg) thats all it needs. Interesting airplane tracks very well, you can just tell its not that light trainer type flying.


Denis

njmheli

Hi Denis.

Thanks for your note on the elevator................will look at that to see what I am getting at around 10 / 15 degrees.See you went to Charles aswell !!! looks like we have put the "N" numbers on the lower wing in exactly the same position !!!

Your staggerwing looks great aswell....................like the "rigging wires",will have alook to see how you have done this ( think it was in a post a few clicks back ).

So if all is balanced at the 5 1/2" position,with a reliable engine (!! ) and all the very kind "pointers" from Paul,Russ and yourself,I should be ok !!!

I too have removed the "dummy" cylinders in the cowl,but I have left the "push rod tubes",still think plenty of cooling air can get in and get out...............

Thanks again for your help.

Cheers..........Nick (UK)

kochj

Yo Knuckle...

You have the os1.60 twin in the staggerwing right??

I have my 1.60 twin in a Gp superchipmunk, and didn't think it had all that great of power...
Loops a very scale..It seems to not have enough grunt though...
I am wondering if I hadn't enough pitch on prop?
17x6 APC...
I think it is reving to high...
Going to try 19x8 this spring, and place my Telemitry on it...inflight data will be shared....

kochj

Good to hear about the saito radial....Nice engine for sure...

I haven't decided how I will place this 5-cyl radial in the cowl, as of yet...

There isn't enough room to have the valve covers, and even with them off, the valves hit the sides enough to cause concern....

Will have to figure it out.....

Any Ideas??
I don't want to make a new cowl...
Could I somehow make this one work?

I could shorten up the cowl, as it constricts at the entrance...???

teamscalepilot

My Feedback: (2)

I would like to try the DLE 30 in the Staggerwing it seems to have more power than the Fuji.

Ken41

kochj,

I have an ASP FS400AR that I just tried in my cowl. If the prop shaft was about 1 1/8" longer, I think it would work with the rocker box covers in place. They would touch the cowl, but with some teflon tape it would probably work.
I am not sure if the Saito is larger in diameter than the ASP. I think that the cowl entry diameter probably would be okay, depending on the cowl outlet size. I have not started on the Staggerwing yet, too many other projects.

Ken

kochj

I would have to some how get the front of the cowl to be a larger radius, or cut off the front, and then add, a new tip...
Essentially making the constricted part gone.. and End the cowl earlier, so it will fit...

I guess, I could cut out the valve covers (stick thorough the cowl) but that isn't something I want to do right now...

njmheli

Hi to all in this "Thread".

This is the "link" to the video of my "DOWN and LOCKED" retract conversion on my T/F Staggerwing.Still awaiyng good weather to maiden her.............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVm7P98gLqE

Cheers..............Nick (UK)

GaGeeBees

My Feedback: (23)

Hi Nick - Thanks for posting. The gear looks like it works really well. Hope your weather lets you do the maiden soon!

njmheli

Hi Paul.

Weather still not too good,but have run the Saito again,still running very rich and NO on-board glow needed..............here is a link to the vid I took from my phone today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YRqt4ITiNU

Cheers..............Nick (UK)

GaGeeBees

My Feedback: (23)

Sounds fantastic! Nothing quite like a radial engine . Idle and transition are very good for only your second run. Does this engine have two glow plies per cylinder? Thanks for posting the video! The bird looks, sounds and runs great! I'm sure you're going to like how it flies as well.

njmheli

Hi Paul.

The Saito only has one plug per cylinder,but they state that due to some "re-working" of the intake design,this has made all the difference to the even running,it does not have a "turbinator" as such fitted...well there's nothing like it in the "exploded" diagram / spares listings !!!

So far very pleased with the set up,I think that the prop change from a APC 17 x 8 to a 17 x 6 has made a difference,well at least on the "ground running".Once the engine has been "primed"and the correct throttle opening selected for start,it fires up very easily............in fact to my amazement,I just grabbed the spinner and it started with a quick flick of my wrist.I dwon't use an electric starter on this Saito....no need for it !!

Thanks again for your comment.............just got to wait for the good weather and my nerves on the maiden day to behave themselves......[]

Nick............(UK)

mobyal

Nick
Very nice. Thanks for posting!
I have the Down and Locked-converted Robarts in my H9 B-25 and there was no modification required after conversion. They just bolted righ back into the airplane. I'm getting ready to send my Staggerwing gear to D&L for conversion, and I note you said you had to do some clearance work w/ these. Was it anything significant, and was it to the fuse where the retract mounts or to the wing panel, or both?
Thanks
Al

njmheli

Hi Al.


DOWN and LOCKED conversion...........Not too much had to be done,with respect to modifying,I just made sure that there was enough clearence ( by using the "dremel" ) for the "modified and extended Robarts"all around the actuator.This is because the "wires" from the electric motors have to move backwards and forwards as the motor runs back and forth as the screw jack turns.........Don't want any rubbing here on the fibreglass in the fuzz or on the plywood in the wings !!!! The "pocket" in each wing that the "Robarts" protrude into are deep enough as standard to allow the "extended Robarts" to fit easily.Mitch of D & L,made me aware of the extra depth that would be needed when I sent him the photos of the STD pnuematic set up.

I assume that you have seen my earlier posting of the D & L in action on my Staggerwing........for an idea of the clearance look back to my posting # 1445,last pic and "enlarge" it to normal size.

The other thing you may have to do is to ensure that the "wires" coming out of the electric motor ate "bonded" flat to the motorcasing ( this will give you a good chance to get the clearance you need for the movement of the motor.

Another good thing about this conversion.............the screw jack is nicely "tucked" away in a clean pocket in the wing...therefore well away from all that runway dust and dirt !!! ( that could foul things up if not cleaned and lubricated on a regular basis )

I use a seperate stand alone battery for my retracts,so no relying on the RX power.

Hope this helps.

Nick..................(UK)

mobyal

Thanks, Nick
I use a separate battery for the D&Ls on my B-25, too. Cheap insurance and the extra weight in the nose is nice too.
Mine for the Staggerwing are off to Mitch in the next couple of days.
I had looked pretty carefully at your video and pics, so w/ your description I feeel good about it.
Good luck w/ your maiden.
Al

njmheli

Hi Al.

Your D & L conversion on your SW will be ok,do you use a voltage regulator on the B-25 for your retracts?.....Mitch / instructions state not to allow more than 6 volts into the control box,hence I'm using a reg for volts ( battery is a 6volt,but as charged can do up to 7 + volts ).
Mitc / Ron at D & L were hoping to introduce a "new" control box with a regulator already built in it..............do you know about this...?

I think that the speed of the retracts after the conversion are not too far from the full size "speed / operation ",having see a cilp on You-Tube.........!!! The motors sound a little strained as they reach the end of the UP cycle,but the speed doesn't appear to slow and I think this is due to Mr Gravity and Mr Geometry doing their thing..........!!!!

Let me know when you have the retracts back and up and running...........post a vid, would be good to see?

I have attached a pic of my "control box" position,just held in place with very good double sided tap ( used for holding car number plates on...much better than the stuff to get in hobby stores )

Cheers..................Nick (UK)

mobyal

Hey Nick
I'm not using a voltage regulator on the B-25. I'm aware of what D&L says about the voltage, so I'm using a 2400mAh 4 cell 4.8 volt battery on the retracts, same as I'm using for the flight pack. Wasn't aware that D&L was thinking of a "built-in" regulator. Sounds like a good idea, though. On your video, the cycle time for the Staggerwing looks pretty close to scale. The time on the B-25 is slower, but again it looks pretty close to scale as thay operate. I too have noticed a change in the sound of the motors when the gear get close to the full up and locked position but as they don't slow and lock solidly in the up position I haven't worried about it.
The B-25's in pieces right now and I'm finishing up a couple of other projects. When I get it put back together I'll take a video of the gear cycling and post it.
Stay warm and dry.
Al