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Why not move on to R/C ?

Old 09-26-2003, 11:48 PM
  #26  
littlefly
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Default RE: Why not move on to R/C ?

[8D]
He better not be inferring that 5-man combat is tame. Just like Downunder described, but 5 flyers in the ring at a time! Started flying that with the grown men when I was eight years old. Flying Bill's favorite target--"Slight Freak" with Torpedo 35. Had a damed good time from 1960 to 1970. Got out of hobby, came back in 1988 and went 1/2a control line with my nephew and back into the R/c end.
LOVE IT ALL.... HAVE A BALL...
51 now...STILL LOVE IT ALL!!


littlefly
Old 10-04-2003, 03:18 PM
  #27  
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Default RE: Why not move on to R/C ?

Some of us are "modelers" and enjoy all forms of the hobby, U/C, F/F and R/C. May new modelers miss out on all the fun, going directly into R/C as that's what is the most visiable in the magazines and at the local fields. Afterall, it's a consumer driven business, just look at electric today as compared to one year ago. Many new modelers are sport pilots and not modelers. We have newbies locally that have to get someone else to put their BARFs together for them and fix them when they crash. They miss out on the fun of being creative, solving problems, learning the math of aeronautics, building, designing and dreaming!!!
Old 10-06-2003, 01:41 PM
  #28  
jessiej
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Default RE: Why not move on to R/C ?

Many new modelers are sport pilots and not modelers. We have newbies locally that have to get someone else to put their BARFs together for them and fix them when they crash. They miss out on the fun of being creative, solving problems, learning the math of aeronautics, building, designing and dreaming!!!
The BARF crowd does indeed miss a lot. I suppose we live in the age of instant gratification. It seems that many want an engine that needs no break in or tuning to bolt into their ready-to-fly and go flying with neither effort or learning.

Personally I get a great deal of pleasure from building and tinkering with engines (both model and motorcycle). These activities have the additional advantage of not being hampered by weather or darkness.

I get a lot of satisfaction from seeing my own creation fly. For me a arf would be like displaying a trophy won by someone else.
Old 10-08-2003, 05:30 PM
  #29  
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Default RE: Why not move on to R/C ?

Well,

I guess I'll get in here too, I haven't been here for a long time, don't even remember if I've ever posted here or not.

Anyway, what many of you are saying is so true, I am a scratch builder mainly, a Free Flighter first but have and do enjoy all 3 disciplines. My Free Flight activity has slowed a little over the last few years because I've been enjoying my return to CL Stunt. I can't remember NOT building model airplanes. I learned to fly RC on escapements in the '50's, CL too, on my Dad's shoulders flying a Firebaby. Free Flight was the first I competed in and that started at age 11, CL just in the last few years. I like RC and fly some vintage stuff, but the fact is its not near as much fun for me as FF or Stunt.

Randy
Old 10-09-2003, 10:51 AM
  #30  
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Default RE: Why not move on to R/C ?

Escapements, those were the days. Engine powered models with rubber band powered controls. Some flew pulse, some flew tone. Then there was the compound escapements, and, and, and...sorry.
May those days RIP.

George
Old 10-09-2003, 11:05 AM
  #31  
RRyan
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Default RE: Why not move on to R/C ?

George,

There are some crazies doing it again. Of course their using good radio equipment but modifying to drive escapement relays etc. I thought about it, but I built a Guillows Trixter Beam and try as I may to retrain myself I ended up with 3 channels.

Pulse was fun too, I still have my Min-x gear, the Rand LR-3 (3 function actuator) would work flawlessly on the bench, but once at the field it would strip or rather lose a gear tooth and I'd end up a spectator, there were alot of us then, remember. A good day was only minor damage sustained in 1 flight using an full tank of fuel. Touch and goes?? Ha! touch was more like impact, no more go after that.

Randy
Old 10-10-2003, 12:14 AM
  #32  
kdheath
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Default RE: Why not move on to R/C ?

Lessee. CL stunt and sport 1/2A to 40 size. RC sport, pattern, Q-500, sailplane, contest fun fly. FF HLG, catapault, P-30, indoor peanut, A-6, stick, Phantom Flash. Trains in N, HO including scratch and craftsman kit, and O gauge. Occasional plastic car kit. Occasional rocket for the kid.

Move on to WHAT?
Old 10-10-2003, 05:54 PM
  #33  
Strykaas
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Default RE: Why not move on to R/C ?

Kdeath. It's OK for u
Old 10-11-2003, 01:24 PM
  #34  
Shortman
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Default RE: Why not move on to R/C ?

I have a question for Control Line pilots though, is there a limit though to the flying manuevers one can do. Wouldn't you get bored being able to have such a small envelope of flying manuevers. Seems like its more a precision/combat sport and thats it. I did control line when I was younger but R/C flying seems more involving and more to do.
Old 10-11-2003, 05:46 PM
  #35  
Jim Thomerson
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Default RE: Why not move on to R/C ?

It is true that you can't roll the airplane. Control line racing is great fun, much more exciting than RC Pylon racing because of manditory pit stops, in my opinion. I've been flying CL Precision Aerobatics since my knees told me that I was no longer a racing pitperson. About 25 years now. The Modern Precision Aerobatic pattern is a sequence of 15 maneuvers. I find that the pattern is interesting, not boring, to practice because each maneuver is different and offers different challenges in doing it precicely and correctly. As you said, a precision event. Combat is fun to watch, and takes great skill to fly well. Of course, if you don't wish to compete, you can build an airplane and do whatever you can with it within the limitations of the situation. By the by, I have read an article about flying tethered RC. Not clear why one would want to.

Jim
Old 10-11-2003, 08:39 PM
  #36  
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Default RE: Why not move on to R/C ?

I beleive if you go out to the RC field and watch, you'll find the majority of RC flying is just folks going around in circles with an occasional loop from time to time. Rolls are used to point the airplane in another direction. Aerobatics and 3D guys really are the only ones to use the whole flihgt envelope, that and more advanced sport pilots. Then of course there is RC combat which made the rest of RC flying to mundane for me to worry about.
Old 10-11-2003, 10:08 PM
  #37  
Shortman
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Default RE: Why not move on to R/C ?

Yeah, I like to push the flight envelope you could say with flying such as 3D. One other thing, R/C seems to evolve different planes that are completely different from the next. Like the SPAD/PBF coroplast planes that are really a whole new breed. Profile planes much like the control line planes are mainly used for 3d flying because they excell at it. Has anyone ever done a completely different new thing that changed control line so to speak?
Old 10-12-2003, 03:07 AM
  #38  
Strykaas
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Default RE: Why not move on to R/C ?

I agree Shortman,

As time goes on, R/C offers more and more !

For example 3D flight. Today, an increasing number of 3D aircraft kits are available. It's really trendy...

Old 10-12-2003, 09:36 AM
  #39  
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Default RE: Why not move on to R/C ?

ORIGINAL: shortman
I have a question for Control Line pilots though, is there a limit though to the flying manuevers one can do.
Well, you can't do a four point roll (on purpose ).

Wouldn't you get bored being able to have such a small envelope of flying maneuvers.
Not really. You make up for it with the smaller maneuvers and the instant feedback through the lines.

Seems like its more a precision/combat sport and thats it.
Not exactly. Although most competition oriented people lean toward stunt or combat there are other types of models such as scale, carrier, racing, fun (low key competition) events, and of course, sport.

I did control line when I was younger but R/C flying seems more involving and more to do.
You probably had a minimal involvement with CL because you were more interested in RC...and that's OK. All forms of modeling can be fun and interesting. On my workbench at this time are two 1/2A CL "Scientific" biplanes and a 1/2A Q-Tee (3-channel). I like all forms of modeling but currently only participate in CLPA (stunt) and a little RC. I would like to develop good FF skills eventually.
Of course this is only one person's opinion

George
Old 10-12-2003, 04:58 PM
  #40  
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Default RE: Why not move on to R/C ?

I have a question for Control Line pilots though, is there a limit though to the flying manuevers one can do. Wouldn't you get bored being able to have such a small envelope of flying manuevers.
Perhaps you're encumbered with a severely limited perspective exacerbated by a strong personal preference bias, plus I suspect, influenced by a tinge of irrational R/C elitist nonsense (?).

Or to put it another way to reflect that, don't you think R/C is boring? After all, all R/C pylon pilots do is fly around a rectangular course at full throttle, and your average R/C sport flyer has exhausted his entire envelope with a loop and aileron roll....if in fact he can manage those.

I suspect that most here who fly C/L, and particularly those who fly only C/L take umbridge at the intonation of the original statement veiled as a question that C/L is flown by dinosaurs suffering from dementia or those not bright enough "move on" to R/C.

The question itself is silly, and one doesn't have to look for what the original poster was seeking by how he framed his question.

As for why? Take up the C/L FAI F2D challenge and see how "boring" it is. Compared to flying a FMJ on LJRs or the quest for fastest circuit qualifying lap on a 250GP bike, F2D rates the same pure adrenaline punch compressed into 4 minutes, albeit without the physical danger or expense. Exciting yes. Challenging yes. Boring...well that depends upon each individual's perspective.

Personally I find all model aviation racing events boring be they R/C or C/L, even when participating. Spectating, I'd rather watch grass grow...but there you are. To some, they become so obsessed by their chosen interest that their perspectives are narrowed and their lives become all consumed by it. As for those R/C Pattern or C/L Stunt fliers who become equally fanatical...better we don't even go there.

We're all individuals. There is no inferiority superiority afforded by either R/C or C/L , only a fashionability which affects those same silly people who depend upon their sense of worth and acceptance from others from being seen in the right label clothing, wearing the fashion of the moment shades and displaying all the other status accoutrements endorsed by the 'cool' people pushed by marketing monkeys. The salient question really is why not move on to C/L? [8D]
Old 10-13-2003, 03:18 PM
  #41  
Strykaas
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Default RE: Why not move on to R/C ?

The question itself is silly, and one doesn't have to look for what the original poster was seeking by how he framed his question.

Hum hum ... This does not please me at all [>:]

Where did I say CL was inferior to RC or whatever ? Nowhere !

I launched this thread to understand why, in my early opinion, people flying CL do not move on to RC, because, in my country, CL flyer are not easy to find...

1) I have never flown any CL plane : that's why I CANNOT EVEN DRAW A COMPARISON, RIGHT ? The prupose, among others, what to collect testimonies of both RC and CL pilots.

2) If people started to establish some kind of superiority, it's not my fault. We're reponsible adult people here (well, maybe).

3) Even if I haven't encountered any CL flyer, I'm contemplating trying CL one day.

4) I DO NOT THINK THIS POST IS SILLY CAUSE IT HAS SHED NEW LIGHTS FOR ME ON CL [sm=punching.gif]; NOW I HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION, AND YES THIS THREAD COULD HAVE BEEN :

why not move on to C/L?

5) The point is not to bash one or the other, but to explain to what extent one enjoys his hobby, which has been done by some other CL flyers.


Good grass watching [sm=RAINFRO.gif] !
Old 10-13-2003, 06:44 PM
  #42  
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Default RE: Why not move on to R/C ?

Hello Strykaas

hum ... This does not please me at all
Nor your subject header and subsequent iterations me. But the objective of my post was to answer shortman's question as quoted, using paradoxical example by way of enlightening ignorance. Why should you take offense so easily yet give it so readily?

Where did I say CL was inferior to RC or whatever ? Nowhere !
Au contraire. Excusing the fact that English is not you first language as French isn't mine, the reader can only interpret what you say, not what you might mean to say.
What you said both in your subject header ie: "move on" is an repulsive politically correct contemporary metaphor for "progress" which carries an obvious negative innuendo. The first respondent to your initial post interpreted your expressed attitude exactly as I did. You subsequently reinforced this being your perspective by the sentence in your initial post stating quote: "move on to R/C controlled aircraft, which provide more realistic flight" exacerbating your misconceptions yet again that view of C/L vs R/C in post # 11 where you said of R/C "that's very close to flying a real aircraft". Are you now starting to get the picture?

If you don't mean to offend and don't wish the sort of response given, perhaps you should give more thought to the framing of your question/s?

I launched this thread to understand why, in my early opinion, people flying CL do not move on to RC, because, in my country, CL flyer are not easy to find...
So you say now. Unfortunately for you, language barrier or not, the subliminal slips expressed several times over in your posts reinforcing the viewpoint we interpreted are not supportive of your subsequent vociferous exortations to the contrary.

1) I have never flown any CL plane : that's why I CANNOT EVEN DRAW A COMPARISON, RIGHT ?
Don't shout and stamp your feet. It's boorish. The French aren't representively a boorish people .....are they?

Allow me to explain something to you. R/C flying no more represents the reality of piloting a real plane any more than R/C driving does a real car. They are toys. Expensive but fun toys which present their own set of challenges and a pleasing illusion. Utilising 10 channels may unnecessarily increase complexity offering a feeling of superiority and sophistication to the fragile, but just like using the basic 4 channels, R/C flying shares no more in common with the real world of aviation than primary aspects of low speed aerodynamics. Ersatz adaptations of basic circuit procedure and a minimised and subjectively parochial implementation of what might be broadly considered the model aviation equivalent of "airmanship" complete the illusion. The less informed, immature and unintelligent the participant is, the easier is to become immersed in delusion.

Sans the semi-conventional circuit, ability to roll or by tradition change control throttle setting, C/L is identical with its own set of unique challenges, allowing the same illusion in the mind of the 'willing to believe' participant, albeit without the same snobbery commonly observed afflicting those who get carried away with the R/C illusion allowing it to become delusion. Undoubtedly, C/L would in its heyday before R/C have suffered the same silly snobbery & delusion we frequently observe of some in R/C today.

Personally, having a real basis of comparison, different from the expression of imagination C/L model flying represented to me as a child, I have since returned to enjoy it and R/C for what they are, unaffected by delusion of what I'd like to believe they are.[sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

You present the impression to me at least that C/L won't be your cup of tea, but try it by all means. It's alive and well in Europe with some of the top competitive flyers in its respective disciplines residing there. The 2003 C/L European Championships were held in RouillΓ© - which is where? - France! Have a look at this URL. It'll open up a world of links and information on control line if you genuinely seek to better understand it though only participation can offer a proper appreciation. To reiterate, it assuredly isn't for everyone any more than stamp collecting or R/C.

http://www.plasma.kth.se/~olsson/cl.html

In any case I've answered and explained shortman's question posed in post #34 in my previous post which should simultaneously address several 'concerns' of your own. Logic doesn't dictate that one has to like the facts/truth. Choosing to become informed or remain ignorant is also an individual choice.

Prosit!
Old 10-13-2003, 11:15 PM
  #43  
jessiej
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Default RE: Why not move on to R/C ?

Aw Hell. Just get a Ringmaster or some such and give it a try. That way you dont have to rely on anyones' opinion.
Old 10-14-2003, 06:55 AM
  #44  
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Default RE: Why not move on to R/C ?

Sigrun has a point. Neither CL nor RC offer the same feel as a pilot flying a "real" airplane. RC is more like a video game except you have a real-time oblect you are controlling. The challenge for some is to get your reflexes and equipment to make the object do EXACTLY what you want it to do. On the other end of the spectrum is the guided FF guys who lay the transmitter down and use it merely to keep their plane on the field.
Controlline, although limited to a sphere offers real-time feedback as you control the object.
Some people are limited to one or the other by their environment (available flying site). Others tend to gravitate to a group and are limited to the kind of flying that group does. Still others are flying by themselves.
No group is superior to the other when it comes to fun and comradery.
My suggestion is to try various forms of modeling. You may find that CL is one of the forms that picques your interest.
If you do not have CL flyers near you, may I suggest a video tape of either "Brodak's Fly In" or the "Vintage Stunt Championships". Both offer fun and (mostly low key) competition.

George
Old 10-14-2003, 07:17 AM
  #45  
Old Sourdough
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Default RE: Why not move on to R/C ?

Strykaas,

I have tried to avoid responding to this thread. I can no longer do so. We control line flyers have been asked this question or very similar others (When are you going to graduate to Radio Control? It's more like flying the real thing. There is nothing realistic about control line flying.) for years. Your question, "Why don't we move on to radio control," seems to insinuate that Radio Control flying is a logical, advanced stage of model aviation, and that the person who chooses not to avail himself of the opportunity to do so is less advanced or less skilled than those who do. Most of us are tired of the questions of this ilk.

Whether it was your intent or not, your question did give the impression that you were one of the elitist snobs to which SIGRUN refers. In an attempt to avoid a bit of controversy at this relatively new part of RCUniverse, I did avoid a response until now. I only hope that this post does not stir the pot more thoroughly.

Others have provided reasons why they (primarily) fly Control Line, so I won't add more here. Their reasons are basically my own.
Old 10-14-2003, 09:35 AM
  #46  
Strykaas
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Default RE: Why not move on to R/C ?

Guys,

this is my last post on this thread.

I'm sorry that you felt offended.

Yep, it's true I'm not a native english speaker, so innuendos are possible.

However you're totally wrong when you say I'm one of these "elitist snobs ", but u do not seem to understand.

This post started well, very constructive answers for me, and then it slipped to what we are currently discussing...

Have good RC / CL flights !
Old 10-14-2003, 12:12 PM
  #47  
William Robison
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Default RE: Why not move on to R/C ?

Strykaas:

Don't run away. Chalk it up to experience and the fragile egos of we colonials.

Stick around and enjoy the forum.

Bill.
Old 10-14-2003, 04:34 PM
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Default RE: Why not move on to R/C ?

Strykaas

Though it's ultimately your choice, we don't want you to run away. We would like you to listen to our perspective just as you expected us to listen to yours. That's a reasonable expectation wouldn't you agree? You asked a question and the answer wasn't to your liking. That's life. If you leave, how will you profit by it? Do stay. [:-]

Should you take the time to read again what I wrote in response to you and reflect upon what was said, you'll see that your 'question', unintentionally or not, actually made a statement which was demeaning and offensive to control-liners for the very reason Old Sourdough so succinctly points out. And just like Old Sourdough, until I could bear the platitudes no longer I too declined enter the discussion for fear of causing affront with a truthful answer. When I did, I took considerable time and chose my words deliberately and considerately to explain why I and others perceived your 'question' as we did. And you took umbridge?..!!!

Don't consider yourself the object of ad hominem or persecution. You're not.

If you can identify with the profile illustrated, whenever I've found myself in that sort of situation I've discovered reflection as my servant is preferable to indignation as my master.[sm=idea.gif]

Whether ultimately you choose to remain or leave, in any case all the best and I hope that URL I provided benefits you.

Prosit!
Old 10-14-2003, 07:33 PM
  #49  
Kyle Entzel
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Default RE: Why not move on to R/C ?

I have a Sig Sky-ray with a Black Widow .049 in the front and i LOVE IT!!! I've also flown R/C on a buddy box and thats awsome too. I would like to get into BOTH hobbys. Some people like R/C some like C/L some like BOTH. Just my two cents...
Old 10-15-2003, 08:24 AM
  #50  
Old Sourdough
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Default RE: Why not move on to R/C ?

Strykaas,

I took no real offense. Addressing an offense was not the purpose of my post. I was merely trying to point out that your original question appeared to be one of those demeaning jabs at those of us who fly primarily control line as opposed to those who run headlong into Radio Control.

An elitist snob, in the context of these forums, could be a model airplane hobbyist from any discipline who puts down any other discipline within the hobby while attempting to extol the virtues of his own. Your original post seemed to put you into that category. I apologize for inferring this now disproven fact.

While the Internet can be a fantastic tool for commerce or the exchange of information, one of the big challenges with using this and other electronic forums to share thoughts and opinions with folks who don't know our various perspectives, habits, personalities, etc., is the fact that we often have real trouble comprehending what the other person actually means with a given statement or question. I think that we all need to remember this and be very careful with our posts, at least until we know each other better.

An additional 2ΒΆ worth of clarification and pontification.

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