Well put, Tim. You hit the nail square on.

Why thank you Bob.

I belong to the Galveston and the Kokomo club. I usually make it to your fly-in every year (except last year - rain out as I recall). I look forward to it again this year.

Mike

Thank you very much for purchasing the engine from us but I would like to ask you not to go to 80/85 to 1 on your oil mixture. 40 to 1 or maybe 50 to 1 is the most I would go. Oil doesn't cost much and your engine will last much longer if you stay at 40 to 1. I think Bob will agree with me that anything over 50 to 1 you are asking for trouble with any engine.
Tom
Valley View RC

Uh oh, what engine are we talking about here?

If it's the DL, doesn't everybody go 80:1 Amsoil after two gallons of break-in on the Lawnboy Ashless @32:1? I believe even the instructions recommend 80:1 for this engine.

Please clarify.

mine manual says 45 to 1 after run in I just cant figure out how to get 45 to 1 with 4 gallons of gas

There's a chart on my website, linked from my main page.

Tim - the Bob that Tom Denney is referring to is Bob Kramer, DL USA. I think he is running synthetic at 60:1 or something like that, call or email him to find out.

My preference, and many agree, is to keep lubrication up on this engine. It's the "safe" approach to ensure long life as possible.

I will not go leaner than 45 : 1, and have been happiest at 40:1 after break in of 32:1. I use non-synthetic Pennzoil Air-Cooled.

THe oil wars will never end, and each brand and ratio has it's "champions" that recommend a particular setup. Without getting into the wars, the REAL issue is how accurately the carb is adjusted, and how well air flow is provided in the installation.

Regardless of oil brand or mix, what kills engines is poor airflow, overloading prop size, and overleaning of high speed needle.

Guys, when I bought my DL, I spoke with Bob Kramer and he told me he is using Amsoil at 100:1, and has been flying the same engines for a good long time. I was afraid that I would not be able to mix as precisely as would be required for 100:1 so I chose the Bell Ray at 50:1. Only got a couple of gallons thru, but it's running great.

[sm=71_71.gif][sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

THAT is really a surprise!!!!!!

Below is taken from the DL-50cc manual on oil mixture:

Requirements...
Fuel: 2C Regular Gas mixed 30:1 - 45:1 (petroleum based
for break in, synthetic thereafter)
Propeller: 22×8; 22×10; 23×8
Ignition Battery: 4.8 to 6.0 Volts >=1200Mah
Replacement Spark plug: NGK CM6 or equivalent
Gap: 0.018" to 0.020"

Tom
Valley View RC

Tom
I got the idea of 85:1 oil mixture directly from DLUSA.NET. It is listed in the FAQ section of the website. His personal breakin procedure is 2 gallons of 32:1 petroleum based oil and then Amsoil Saber Professional 100 mixed at 85:1 afterwards. He states it keeps the engine very well lubricated and keeps the inside of the engine clean and running great. I have used Amsoil in my Brison 52 and find it to work well. At one time I believe I read that Brison would not honor the warranty if a lower ratio of oil was used. I guess that's not the question here but just thought I'd throw in another point of using high oil ratios.
Paul

Though this is yet another oil debate....I have to speak up and agree with Bob. Good oil, mixed 32-40:1 tuned properly and you will have a clean, happy and good performing engine. After all I have learned and seen regarding the hype over oils, their brands, types and mixtures, there isn't one I would dare mix at a ratio leaner than 50:1.

Some 'popular' oils really leave a lot of carbon deposits, especially when improperly tuned, which happens all too often.

I burn Pennzoil 40:1 in all the garden equipment and hobby engines...tearing em down to inspect em at season's end reminds me why I do.

Chad

Oops - sorry. Didn't mean to start an "oil war." But that's probably why I almost killed my Fuji. Probably could have used more cooling, but probably too much prop (Mezjlik 20 x 10). I was running Klotz 40:1 and after about eight - ten gallons she started loosing power. I removed the cylinder and there was LOTS of carbon deposited on top of the piston and in the combustion chamber. For the most part, the cylinder walls were just fine. New piston and rings and 20 x 8 prop and she seems to be happier (but I still need more power, thus the swap to the DL).

Okay then, I'll go with the Lawnboy Ashless @ 30:1 for two gallons, then Amsoil @ 45:1.

Tim,

If you take an oil designed to run at 80:1 - 100:1 and run it at 40:1 you will have problems. If you want to run an Amsoil product at these lower ratios us Dominator instead of Saber.

GENERAL STATEMENT, not directed at anybody: I generally recommend people run the oil recommended by the person supporting their warranty. If you bought from Bob at DLUSA then I guess you could use the Saber at 80:1 per his recommendation, but if you bought from Tom at Valleyview then honor his recommendation if you expect him to honor your warranty.

Another consideration: IN MY OPINION I believe the Walbro carbs better run with a slightly more viscous fuel/oil mixture up to a point. My engines run just fine and I seem to have better mixture control than some friends who run the thinner oils.

I use Pennzoil at around 40:1, Honda Racing at 32:1 (designed for this ratio), Belray at 40:1, Redline Racing or Stihl Synthetic at 50:1, depending on which bottle I grab when I reload the gas can. All work very well. In fact, these go into our DL-50, ZDZ 80's, DA-100's, and DA-50 with excellent results.

PS, Tim you do a FABULOUS job on the Great Planes manuals. I love the "Pro Tips" contained therein. They remind me of the things I would learn reading RCM when I was a kid in the 70's.

Just bought a DL 50 . There is a small plastic bag that contains a Phenolic arm and a spring. What are these for? Tks

The phenolic arm attaches to the throdel arm and the extra spring goes in the sparkplug cap you will find that one is in the cap and the other spring is a spare,

Thanks for the compliments on the instruction manuals BTerry. Some of my most recent projects/instruction manuals have been the GP EP Seawind, Top Flite B-25, GP 38% and 27% Extra 330S (all ARFs). I've also done some of the Top Flite kits back in the "good ole days" (.60 and giant P-47, .60 Sea Fury, Piper Arrow, DC-3, Stinson, etc.). But of course, there are several others in the "shop" who also develop models and write manuals too.

Thanks for your tips on the oils too. I'll take all of that into consideration. If I decide to go nearer the 40:1 route I'll visit my local motorcycle shop and see what oils they have that you mentioned (Bel Ray, Honda). I should have my engine up-and-running tomorrow. I'm going to post some pics of my install on my Extra.

By the way, I'm going to be selling my J-Tech Pitts and the stock DL mufflers that I got with the engine (I'm using the Slimline muffler for the DA). Neither of these mufflers have even been mounted. I'll post in the "for sale" section soon.

Tim

You may want to reconsider selling the Jtec pitts, it is the best for this engine the slimline will rob the engine of some rpm, but the Jtec will not.

I think the Brison muffler is best it has baffles in it and the quality craftman ship is superb,

Don't you mean *BISSON* ?
Have you had one apart? All of them I have ever seen have no baffles in the canister.... that would be good, though!

Thanks for the correction Bob,

No I havent taken mine appart, When I look threw the hole in the side of the can whare it attaches to the head I thought I saw what look to me as baffles, One thing for sure my engine never ran so good and it has a strong sound to it,

I know they do work better than the Slimline, a lot less restrictive, and produce mellower tone. If I get another Pitts I'll probably try one, but right now the J'Tec Pitts is pretty sweet. And DL USA sells them, so it's "one stop", a little easier to get.
I'm glad we have options on this engine, for sure!

I was disappointed with the J-Tec that I got when I purchased the engine because it looks a little "cobbed together." The welds aren't "pretty" and the part of the muffler that bolts onto the engine is so huge I had to cut away part of the cowl for it. It kinda looks like it was made from leftover parts found in a high-school metals shop. To be fair, I'm sure the J-Tec performs well and there are many people who are just fine with it, but the Slimline looks like a much better-made piece and is more compact. (I know the muffler is hidden (mostly!) inside the cowl, but I'm one of those guys who can't sleep at night knowing any part of the model is "ugly." ) And inside the smaller confines of the Extra cowl the smaller Slimline just fits better. Finally, I'm not worried about extracting every last bit of power from the engine because it's flying about a 14.5 - 15 lb plane (at least it was 14.5 lbs with the Fuji).

Pics tonight I promise - I made a real sweet extended carb arm out of carbon fiber and have a pretty sweet choke setup too. I can also show the cowl cutout in-case anybody else is mounting one of these engines on the 27% GP Extra (330S ARF).