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Welcome to Club SAITO !

Old 03-10-2006, 11:17 PM
  #2051  
William Robison
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Gary:

Yes, you want the double seal. The FA-100 still has the vent in the back of the case, not a lot of oil goes up front

Paul convinced me to try the front bearing with both seals, he said the factory grease would outlast anything else that could be out in it. I've done quite a few now that way, and have had no problems at all.

Remember, the only thing that closes the front of the case is the seals in the front bearing. You have noticed how much clearance the shaft has in the forward part of the case, or you will soon.

Bill.

>>EIIT to add picture. wr.
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Old 03-11-2006, 11:34 AM
  #2052  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

quote from your earlier instructions

"There will be either plastic or steel thrust washers on the inner side of the rockers. No mistake, the load pushes them to the center".

Bill,i could not find any on my 100, is thiss a prob, wear around the rockers seemed normal, but there is a little slop left to right
Old 03-11-2006, 12:51 PM
  #2053  
davcos
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I'm trying to mount a Saito 182 TD in a Monocoupe 90a. The mounting washers were not included in the Saito box from Horizon and are not listed as a part number. I need build up about 5/8" off the firewall to get the prop out of the cowl. My local dealer said to just build up a wooden box to get the required clearence. Do you think it will be OK to just bolt the engine derectly to the firewall without the rubber washers?

btw... four 91's, one 120 and now the 182 twin! Does that qualify me for the club?
Old 03-11-2006, 01:19 PM
  #2054  
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i may have wore Bill out, he may have to wake up from his nap before he answers
Old 03-11-2006, 01:20 PM
  #2055  
w8ye
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I would do like the local dealer said and bolt the engine directly to the built up box with blind nuts on the back side.

Enjoy,

Jim
Old 03-11-2006, 01:25 PM
  #2056  
davcos
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Thanks guys, I'll give it a shot and post a picture here to show you how it works out. It might be an easy spot to add a little "right thrust" eh? The plans only call for 1° so that should be fairly easy.
Old 03-11-2006, 01:31 PM
  #2057  
William Robison
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Gary:

I am shocked. I wondered who had left the thrust washers off your rockers, and opened a pretty new FA-100 here, that has been serviced but never pulled down. Didn't believe what I saw so I pulled the rocker off all the way. No thrust washers. Checked the parts listing, found the washers for the cam but none for the rockers.

Went to the FA-82 which I also have, and mine does have the tabbed washers. None listed there either. Checked some others, both mid block and big block, didn't find any at all.

Makes me think Saito has discontinued using them. I have had some earlier engines that had been assembled without them, never saw any excess wear.

Loks like the elimination of the rocker thrust washers is a production change.
------------------------------------
davcos:

you are in as number 227. We, the elite of engine lovers, welcome you to our midst.

As I read your post you are asking if a vibration damping mount is required for the FA-180. The answer is no, it's not. it is a good idea however. Many isolating mounts are available, ranging from about $30 to well over $100, as in the Hyde mounts.

If your planes last longer than a few years a soft mount is indicated, if they are all destroyed within a year or two then it's your option. Not meaning you can't keep a plane for ten years without the soft mount, just that you are less likely to have vibration damage using one.

As I said, your option.

Bill.
Old 03-11-2006, 01:35 PM
  #2058  
William Robison
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Gary:

Sometimes it is a nap, but as I said in the last post, this time the delay was searching parts lists.

It does look like Horizon is doing their best to make a parts search a real PTA, doesn't it?

Bill.
Old 03-11-2006, 01:42 PM
  #2059  
davcos
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Actually I called Horizon, hoping they would just pull some washers out of another box and send them to me! They've been good in the past and I still like the fact that you can talk to a real person, fairly easily. I also received a 91 with no rocker arms, at all. For some reason I can't resist turning the engine over by hand when I take it out the box. It was obvious that something was wrong. They replaced it, no problem.
Old 03-11-2006, 01:54 PM
  #2060  
William Robison
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All:

When I said "It does look like Horizon is doing their best to make a parts search a real PTA, doesn't it?" I did not intend to disparage Horizon as a whole, only the *^&% webmaster who keeps changing things.

Phone service at Horizon can not be bettered, Dennis Davenport is one of my favorite people, he has never failed to be very helpful.

It's just that when I'm trying to research a part I don't think it's right to call them about it, 'specially on their nickel.

Bill.
Old 03-11-2006, 02:23 PM
  #2061  
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It's so much fun when you search for parts for a 45 and all you get is 450 parts, I just searched for a Saito .65 and it couldn't find anything until I removed the period from the .65. Can't find an .80 at all.
Old 03-11-2006, 02:24 PM
  #2062  
goneflyin
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William,

I thought you were supposed to run purely 100% Synthetic. So what you are saying is that a fuel Like Omega which contains caster and synthetic would be best? The Omega says that you do not require after run, would you still recommend it.

Thanks.
Old 03-11-2006, 02:40 PM
  #2063  
William Robison
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Gone:

Use all synthetic if you wish. The cam lobes and tappets last a LOT longer with the castor in the blend. Your choice.

And don't believe anyone who says their fuel removes the need for after run oil. Even running the engine dry when finished for the day keaves contaminants in thecrank case - running the top end dry does not run the bottom end dry.
----------------------------
Dave:

When a Saito engine is withdrawn from sales, Horizon's parts listing for it disappears at the same time. The FA-80 listings are gone.

Sad.

Bill.
Old 03-11-2006, 02:55 PM
  #2064  
gjeffers
 
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Gone flying, i will vouch for what Bill is saying about the castor.

a year and a half ago i purchased a saito 100, with out castor it lasted 3 months till it needed bearings from rust, and with castor(powermaster 15% w/18% oil 50% of which is castor) it has lasted till now and i am replacing them with ceramic bearings from rc bearings.these bearings i am replacing now are not totally destroyed yet but i am replacing them because i have over a year of flying at a rate of about 4-8 flights a week, thats a lot of evidence if you ask me in favor of castor, have fun and fly all you can
Old 03-11-2006, 04:23 PM
  #2065  
William Robison
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Gone:

From an older version of the Saito manual. Note it says "Tips For Extended Engine Life."

Bill.

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Old 03-11-2006, 04:43 PM
  #2066  
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Here is my .80 running on Fox 5% nitro/20% castor, it sure smokes, the top rpm with an APC 13x6 is 10,431, idle as you see here, top rpm picture too dark, I'll try again on a cloudy day. That rpm is up from 9,900 wth a Master Airscrew Scimitar 13x6 and WildCat 10%. The rpm you see at idle is doable but 2,500 is better.
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Old 03-11-2006, 04:51 PM
  #2067  
Fred Dings II
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Bill Robison


Nobody really thinks you take a nap. Having spent 5 months working in China, I know that a BIG BAD BUBBA BUDDHA such as yourself needs to take time out from dispensing wisdom to reflect upon the thirst for knowledge of the rest of us coolies.

I am grateful and the masses are grateful...FRED
Old 03-11-2006, 05:06 PM
  #2068  
William Robison
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Fred:

Sometimes it really is a nap.

China? Old home week. Lived in Peking for a couple years back in the 40s, then later lived in T'aiPei, T'aiWan.

Ni hui-fou Chung-wen?

Bill.
Old 03-11-2006, 05:19 PM
  #2069  
rcfury
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

ORIGINAL: jlkonn
Rcfury,
Congrats on your PSP test stand.
Those are VERY nice.
I'm jealous!
JLK
Yeah, i do have a very special girl... Granted she just hates my planes but, if there something that keeps me away from happy hour at the bars she will do anything. HaHA... So when my 27th b-day rolled along and i did start dropping hints, UPS showed up with something from PSP hobbys. hmmmmmmmmm

Now if she will get me a new starter. Dont know if that will fly
Old 03-11-2006, 05:27 PM
  #2070  
Jack211
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Thanks, Fred, for the "good guy" status. I HAVE to be good--just to put up with DownTrodden--whose talents with his planes are an unbearable insult to me, and a constant nudge to be better.

But you raise the question again, fuel types and after run oil or not. After I sent my Saito 82a back to the factory for the SECOND time (first time, they rebuilt the engine, no questions or comments), I called my fuel supplier, Wildcat, and asked them if I should use ARO. They replied, "We don't recommend it." Hm. Well, the good ol' boys at Horizon replaced the bearings in the 82a, no charge, but they warned me the fix was out of warranty because they found rust on the bearings. Hm.

I don't like down time with ANY of my engines, so I'm going with Bill: auto trans fluid for ARO--and run the engine dry before applying ARO.

And if I read Bill correctly, some castor is REQUIRED to keep a sturdy film between slamming cam and valve drives. Can 100% synthetic castor oil provide that film? Since I'm now getting almost 18 minute flights with the 82a, I'll get to 30 hours of service with the engine by June 1, probably before.

This part IS about "the money." I've flown the last 10 days in a row, always using the Saito, a dream just now. Le's see: $255 divided by 30 hours equals $8.50/hour. Worth it? I'm hoping for 100 hours, which would get us down to $2.55/hour. Reasonable, but probably impossible with a Saito. [Bill, does Saito REALLY want me to think like this?]

DownTrodden has the same bird with an unmentionable .61 2 stroke, which he's flown since last October. It's the ONLY plane/engine combo he's flying right now, 20 mins a flight, 5 flights per session, times three sessions per week equals about 60 hours of service for that engine, still going strong. Cost ($170/60) = $2.80/hour--and cost/hr going DOWN every day.

I'm really not trying to downgrade Saitos, believe me. Remember I own TWO! With a desire to justify them. But I'm NOT a Sunday flier, every other Sunday the weather's nice. I'm PASSIONATE about my flying, fly every day I can, and want Saito to build an engine for ME--AND my passion.

I'm not against rebuilding my Saito (putting in ceramic bearings). I don't look forward to it, but it can't be any more difficult than replacing the timing gear chain on a 1950 Olds, which I've done. But I'd rather be flying.

J.
Old 03-11-2006, 05:28 PM
  #2071  
lrr
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

ORIGINAL: torque wrench

It's so much fun when you search for parts for a 45 and all you get is 450 parts, I just searched for a Saito .65 and it couldn't find anything until I removed the period from the .65. Can't find an .80 at all.
I called Horizon yesterday to see if they could track down any parts for a 45MKII. (I had only found one part on my own -- a piston pin, searching using "FA45". Searching "SAI45" did find the piston pin, and also a piston ring -- both marked for the "C" engine, which is the FA-45MK2.) Horizon confirmed my suspicions -- no parts for the FA-45MK2 available.

Looks like the engine gets clamped into the milling machine to open it up for a new intake ... unless anyone out there has the elusive intake manifold they want to sell!

Lee
Old 03-11-2006, 05:39 PM
  #2072  
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Lee, a while back someone posted the web site of a Saito part vendor. It was a quite extensive list of parts. The bad part was that they were not listed in any logical order. The entire list of parts had to be searched to find the one you were looking for. Maybe someone remembers this web site.
Old 03-11-2006, 06:50 PM
  #2073  
lrr
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I just searched on Google, and found this site. If you call up an engine (categories for singles, twins, radials), it shows the parts explosion. When you mouse over the reference, it gives the "SAI" part number. This should help anyone find parts for many current engines (it is missing a number of relatively new engines):



http://h1071118.hobbyshopnow.com/sup...e.asp?tag=hdir[link]http://h1071118.hobbyshopnow.com/support/explode.asp?tag=hdir[/link]
Old 03-11-2006, 07:03 PM
  #2074  
William Robison
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Lee:

That's NICE.

Thank you for finding it. I wentto that site in search of parts listings, but I missed that page. Those pages.

Would be nice to be able to go straight to an order form. Or maybe a left click? Have to play with it some more.

Again, thank you.

Bill.
Old 03-11-2006, 07:10 PM
  #2075  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

ORIGINAL: lrr

ORIGINAL: torque wrench

It's so much fun when you search for parts for a 45 and all you get is 450 parts, I just searched for a Saito .65 and it couldn't find anything until I removed the period from the .65. Can't find an .80 at all.
I called Horizon yesterday to see if they could track down any parts for a 45MKII. (I had only found one part on my own -- a piston pin, searching using "FA45". Searching "SAI45" did find the piston pin, and also a piston ring -- both marked for the "C" engine, which is the FA-45MK2.) Horizon confirmed my suspicions -- no parts for the FA-45MK2 available.

Looks like the engine gets clamped into the milling machine to open it up for a new intake ... unless anyone out there has the elusive intake manifold they want to sell!

Lee
I just checked at Just Engines and they still list the .45. There is a link at Just Engines to the UK importer. At this link is a page where you type in a part # number or description and it will search for the part. Here is that page: http://www.macgregor.co.uk/stock/stock.htm
I just did a search at MacGreagor and the .45 is not available. Just Engines may have some parts though.

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