If you built it from plans, it would be a plans-built project. Scratch-built is without plans from someone else.

Bob

Oh, my bad.  I was joking anyway.  

I'm kind of a stickler for things like that, especially when I see articles pertaining to a "build" and all that is being done is assembling an ARF.

Bob

Not to beat a dead horse but if I buy a set of plans then make all the parts and build it then would that not still be ascratch build? Since it's not a kit or an arf then what would it be? You would still want a set of plans to build from whether they be your own or anothers. Just saying.

<p class="MsoNormal" style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; FONT-SIZE: 9pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"">Oh boy.  I’ve seen this debate a number of times.   The guys who design and build want to, and should be recognized for the extra skill and effort required.  I have scratch built a number of planes from plans and built many kits with instructions that vary in quality.  Never designed and built.  The design aspect alone requires an additional level of knowledge, skill, and dedication that not everyone has.   

So the designations are: 
<u>Flyer</u> - Flies stuff other people sell, or RTF.  Likes flying but not working on models. 
<u>Assembler</u> - Assemble and fly ARF or similar
<u>Builder</u> - Builds kits with plans and instructions developed by someone else (keeps folks like me on the correct path and from going crazy <span style="mso-no-proof: yes"><shapetype coordsize="21600,21600" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f" id="_x0000_t75"><stroke joinstyle="miter"></stroke><formulas><f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"></f><f eqn="sum @0 1 0"></f><f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"></f><f eqn="prod @2 1 2"></f><f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"></f><f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"></f><f eqn="sum @0 0 1"></f><f eqn="prod @6 1 2"></f><f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"></f><f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"></f><f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"></f><f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"></f></formulas><path gradientshapeok="t"></path><lock aspectratio="t"></lock></shapetype><shape type="#_x0000_t75" alt="http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/punymce/plugins/emoticons/img/trans.gif" id="Picture_x0020_1" style="WIDTH: 0.75pt; HEIGHT: 0.75pt; VISIBILITY: visible; mso-wrap-style: square"><imagedata src="file:///C:\Users\ccorne10\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\ 01\clip_image001.gif"></imagedata></shape></span>)
<u>Scratch Builder</u> - Builds from plans with limited or no instructions (A cake baked from scratch still uses a recipe).
<u>Designer Builder</u> - Designs a model from pictures or 3 view drawings and then works through the process of making components and assembling them into a model.

</p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; FONT-SIZE: 9pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"">For some reason people leave of the last category of designer builder and call them scratch builders.  They truely deserve their own catagory for the dedicated modeler with the skills and patience to go through the process of designing and creating a unique model.  Wish I had the skills but not yet.  After viewing this amazing build it looks like I have a ways to go shoring up my building skills also! </span><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">

</p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">

It should be noted that nothing is wrong with any of these catagories.  We all like working, flying, RC models.  


 
</p></span></p>

>It should be noted that nothing is wrong with any of these catagories. We all like working, flying, RC models.



</p></span></p>
[/quote]


Amen to that!

Jaybird

+1

I will refrain from comment and just sit here muching popcorn at this point .............

Ditto...Ditto...Ditto...et. el.....

How about if we skip the debate and go straight to flying which is why we all do what we do the way we do it in the first place.

Jaybird

Sorry, I can't hold back. I'll repeat myself:

If you build something from scratch that means you have drawn a set of plans or construction drawings to allow you to build the model.

If you obtain a set of plans or construction drawings from other sources to help with the build of the model, that is a plans-built project.

This is not my idea nor anything new, but something I was exposed to some 55 years ago when I started building flying models.

Bob

Pass the popcorn will you Dave...

Hey VJ,

Did your kit come with a wind screen? I've seen a few kit built Ryans and the Great Planes ARFs and they have short wind screen for the pilot. Please don't take this question as criticism of your AMAZING Ryan, I was just curious.........

Take care,
David

Unsubscribing until I hear of a flight report on Private Ryan. Good Luck!

My second hand, mostly built Sig Ryan is next up on the table to see if I can get it air worthy for this summer.

Jaybird

I'm sorry too.
If I aquire a set of plans , cut my own wing ribs and fuselage formers, manufacture my own landing gear, control horns, etc. all from just a set of plans, you, better believe I am going to tell everyone it is scratch built!

But what I really don't get is why it matters to some in such a serious way? Why is it even being discussed in this perticular thread? This build thread is one of the finest I have seen in a long time. Very nice job!

All don't pollute and degrade VJ's thread with a bunch of bickering that has nothing to do with the subject matter of this thread. If you want to argue about this and that take it somewhere else.

There " I am a Stickler for things like that"

Now pass me the popcorn
Anthony

Hey David, the Ryan kit I just got has a clear piece of plastic for the shield, and a template to cut it out. I am sure it could be made larger if you wanted it to be....

Dave

I opened my box up and numbered the ABS. How 'my doing so far? Sorry no photos....it's scary to to anything more at this point. After veiwing and sharing the most perfect build I could imagine here, I'll really need to take my time.

What an inspiration this has been and how exciting it'd be to see it in person. Thanks again for sharing your experience with us here.

Ryans Forever,

Dick

Hey Dick,

If you need any reference photos, I have a whole bunch I took of the Temora Aviation Museum's Ryan STM-S2 here in Australia. It is the military trainer version of the STA. I am in the slow process of converting an old Sig Ryan STA into the STM-S2. I have an old thread over on RCSB, which reminds me, I must update it some time!

James.

Ok I hope that's out of everybodys system so we can move forward...and Anthony's right, it's OK that we may have a differencein opinions, but here's not the place or proving ground for this particular debate!

David, to anwser your question about the windscreen, yes it did come with one that you have to cutfrom some sheet plastic. It's not installed as of yet because I don't want to work around it and possiibly damage it until I get the instrument panel installed. I think I am going tomake awooden mold and use some heat to get the windscreen to get to fit the way I want it to.

I did however get to spend a bit of time in the workshop to makeand install the headrest for Private Ryan. This is my busy time at work as I have been spending stupid hours after work training students for upcoming automotive competitions, so for the next two weeks work will progress slowly. The headrest was made from scrap balsa trimmed to sizeand covered in leather. The last photo shows where I got the leather from...LOL

Dick, you're on the right track. Spending some time labeling and sorting your wood pile will make the build go that much smoother for you. Take your time, ask questions when you need help, and above all enjoy your build...

Garage sales are an excellent source for leather. I pick up the occasional women's purse. I do get some strange looks, though.

I am sure you do!
<br type="_moz" />

Vincent,

OJ called. He wants his glove back.

Mikey

I just finished a reply thanking you guys for the tips and added additional tech notes with photos but the session timed out and deleted everything.....frustrating.
Dick