am i glad i found this thread! i was so excited about this i just ordered me a kit as well, looking forward to this

about the covering, i was planning on using the 21st century fabric, wouldnt that be ok? i cant take the fumes of the dope

i live up at 8000' msl, so im thinking a hot 2stroke 60 should be ok??

are you guys putting flaps in yours? i will on mine i think

have any of you flown yours yet, fly ok?

also, it looks like the interior would be large enough for a small little camcorder, ??? yes??
thanks

Brian, Welcome to the build. Man you can cover this thing any way you want. I chose Koverall because you can hide the seams and overlaps. When finished it looks like one piece. If you are comfortable using 21 st century cloth then by all means use it. As for engine choice I am sure that any of the ABC schnurl ported 60's will work. The plane builds pretty light so you should be ok. You dont' have much choice about flaps, it comes with them. You would have to modify the wing build to leave them out. All the parts and hardware for their installation comes in the box so its not like you have to do extra work. Follow the plans and they are easy.
Mine has not been flown. It is still awaiting primer and paint. You can contact ken @ mosqitobiteplanes.com and he will be happy to give you all the info you need about the flying charateristics. From what I have seen it flys great.

I hope you enjoy your build as much as I have. Post your progress from time to time and send a picture or two, I'm sure the readers of this thread would like to see them too.

yeah, now that i think about it, im kind of nervous

i have been out of the hobby for the past 8 months or so but have around 8yrs total experience (off and on)....

i havent built anything in years, but i think i will be ok, from the pix of what ive seen here it looks like a very good kit

what about the interior, is it fairly large?

i just bought the Aerofly Professional deluxe flight simulator to help me brush up my thumb skills, - thanks and yes i will post some pix when i get started and probably ask lots of questions

thanks

Brian, You dont have to worry about this plane. It is a snop to build. I had not built a kit in over 10 years when I started this one. As we speak there is a class of 7th and 8th graders building one for a class project. It is not the first kit for many of them but it may be the biggest, and perhaps the most complex. The interior is, eh, spacious? almost 6 inches wide and 10 inches long. When installed a 12 oz tank barely pokes into radio bay. Check ot the photos of my radio box installatin and you will get an idea of its size.
As you start your build you might like to reread the thread and look for my Cautions and Warnings. I made all the mistakes for you and you can learn from my missteps.

great news about interior space, this plane begs for a video camera!!

yes i plan to print out this complete thread before i start to build it

color schemes, .... im thinking .. cream/light tan with red trim - im not to good at covering so i will probably keep it very simple

Wascamp,
Good day building today with the kids. You mentioned 8th graders, unfortunately they are all seventh graders. Only experience in the room is one kid who's brother I taught to build and then later taught to fly his own trainer. Out of the 70 kids I have building 4 planes a year, a handful (maybe 4 or 5) actually ever get their own plane. Last year I gave an RV-4 to one of the kids because it had two hard landings and I was tired of it. Turns out the motor needed a new bearing. But that kid actually has 4 planes now. Best story is a kid who is now attending Purdue for aviation He actually did his Science fair on the pitches of different props. Back to the build. On page 18, the lower picture shows a former that is not yet installed while #4 is being installed. Correct. One of my guys tack glued some CA on the outside to give the wood glue time to bond. Spent quite a bit of time sanding when the class left. Thank you for the tip on the 1/4 square pieces. I'm going to chase a few pieces at the hobby shop tomorrow for the fuse group. Please tell me where I can find that part about the windows not being glued solid? I believe you, I just can't find it. I am a little worried I might make the same mistake later somewhere else. One kid today built part of the flaps and ailerons, then he became a photographer. Photos this evening

Mr. Hill,
The instruction for the fuselage sides is found on page 4. Pre-Assembly. Easy to miss. The plans also show the parts that get pre assembly, they are shown 1/4 size and have the areas to be glued and not glued marked out. Sorry about misrepresenting the skill level of the class. The point was to alay any fears that prospective builders of this kit might have. The fact that your group is made up entirely of novice 13 yearolds should prove how well designed and thoughtout this plane is. All of us make mistakes from time to time, the benifit of this is that we learn to fix things that we goof up. I think any novice builder who finds an experianced mentor at his local club will be able to build this kit without much trouble. It is not as demanding as, say, a Sig Senior. or 1/5 th cub.

No problem with the skill level. I'm just real proud of fact that my builders are 12 going on 13. I hope my tone did not come across negative. You were right about page 4. I have a few more days to figure out what to do. I could cut some relief or hit it with some deponder. What are your thoughts. This plane consumes much of my thoughts. In my head I am already covering this plane. Do you think that I can make that ridge in the fuse look right without dope? Going home now to upload some pictures for you. Hope tone was not taken wrong on grade level. I never flew a plane until I was 31, they get their first shot at 13! Kids today are so spoiled. I don't think they know it sometimes.

Scott,
No, I knew what you ment. The fact that they are noviates is great. I would try to free up the bottom of the window frame part. Debonder might be the best bet. mine was glued per the instructions and even then the wood protested when bent. You might try a little water and amonia on the joint to soften it befor you try to form it to the top. It pulls in at the rear and should be softened a little.
Are you talking about the cabin top with referance to cover? It will cover just fine, you might need to use a little balsarite on it to stick the cover on as you pull the cover over the contours. Ken used plastic on his and it looks super. Post your fotos, I am waiting for them.

Well here is my first attempt to post pics. Thanks for the assistance. One pic is of the student who worked on the flaps and ailerons and then turned into a photographer. I really like the personal service offered by Ken. My missing parts were shipped out today. I will post more pics as we go, the kids are as excited about the RC Forum as they are the build. We DROP, STOP AND READ every morning and I have considered printing these pages off for the kids to read.

Pretty exciting for a rookie to the forum. I can only load one pic at a time from my home computer. Here are the rest of the pics taken today. None of these pictures are going to be attempts to be as descriptive and as helpful as Roger. We just want to be a part of this great thread on what we hope will turn out to be a great plane. One of the pics is the wing in the vise, the fuse (and the premature glued pieces) and two other kids sizing up the fuse. I have another group on the tail and I need more pics of their work. The one pic shows the wing in a vise. My inlaws bought the vise two years ago for my birthday. It has a suction cup activated bottom and I considered it worthless on my particle board shelves in my garage/shop. Now in my classroom it is worth its weight in gold!

MAN! it aint fair[:-]

i think im going back to school, what a great opportunity for these kids

they look really into and lets face it, who wouldn't be

there is still hope for America's future! [8D]

Mr. Hill,
Gosh, with the class reading my posts I will have to watch my language a little closer. Now you all know why I am such an enthusiastic supporter of this kit. The airframe builds very fast indeed. As can be seen in hILLVILLE's fotos two kids can build most of the wing framing in an hour. They still need to do a lot more but it looks like a wing already. Mine took about 8 hours to complete. more if you enclude final sanding. Personally I think Mr Hill should be aplauded for his work with the next generation of R/C modellers. I only wish I could help more. That's a none to subtle hint to the Kit Manufacturers. What a great way to get new customers. Hint,Hint,Hint!!!
N415P goes into primer tomorrow. Anyone want to start a pool on how many coats it takes? My guess is SIX, with all but one sanded off.

More later,

Bad news TriPacer fans. My wife went over the mountian to Wally World to pick up some knitting yarn. I asked her to get me some Rustoleum or Krylon primer. I have been told that both brands will work as a prime coat for the Rustoleum I was going to mix and spray. She comes home with 1 can of krylon and two cans of brand X primer. It was all they had. The brand X paint was acrilic enamal, so I figured I was ok. I had used a similar paint under Formula U and it worked ok. Well, to make a long story longer I have stripped all the cover off the fuselage and control surfaces. Somehow the primer reacted with the nitrate dope and made a mess of the whole thing. I thought I was ok with the Primer, I put it on in several light coats and let it dry for about 24 hours. It appears that the solvents in the spray paint worked on the dope. There were wrinkles in the fabric, small ones. and they would not shrink out. Anywhere the fabric touched the structure there were bumps that looked like thick brush marks. It looked like I covered the plane with a brown paper bag and white glue. SO, I will recover her and go to plan "B". I will be forced to use dope which was plan"A" in the first place. If anyone would like to see the recovering job let me know and I will try to take a lot more fotos this time. If you have seen enough covering jobs tell me now and I will forgo the training exercise.

PS. I know the thing did not look like this before I painted her.

Speaking for those of us without experience with fabric and dope please document the process. Sorry you have to do it again!

Let me know if you break any part in the process... I think I have a few parts laying around here somewhere

I share your frustration with it. I can't imagine the colorful words that you recited in your discovery.

Thanks for the sympathy and the offer of parts. I got all the fabric off without any damage to the ship. I was once a Cheif petty officer in the USCG before political correctness caught hold. My vocabulary once was quite colorful and while it has been a few years since I had used it, the skill came back very quickly when I discovered the mess I had made. I tried to sand it down but the small wrinkles and bumps were there to stay. Heck, covering is fun but the dope is a causes belli around here. I will try to do a better job of documenting the cover process this time. I think I will spray the fill/seal coats this time. I cant' wait to try out my new HVLP gun.
More later.

Very sorry to hear about your covering. I have only covered with plastic to this point. I have never ventured out of my comfort zone. I was considering fabric for this, but I am scared I will make a mistake. I know it is suppose to be as easy as plastic, but unforseeable things jsut happen.

Stay with me hILLVILLE, I will try to get this to work. I did something wrong, so don't give up on fabric just yet. The cloth is easy to work with and others have good luck with it. I think I just has a problem of compatability with the dope and the cheap rattle can primer. I had been warned that the solvents in spray can paints were more volitile than regular reducer. Heck, I may have put too much cornstarch in my filler coats. I'll never know. The wing was painted with Krylon and it did not clabber like the fuselage did. The nature of wisdom is the making of mistakes over time. The longer we live the more mistakes we get to learn from. Ours and others. I will be more careful this time.

Sorry to hear about your experience with the paint. I had a very bad experience with Rustoleum--it turned out not to be fuel proof and made a mess of a plane of mine after a few flights. I think they reformulate those paints now and then--you can't count on them. Jim

Well, No use crying over spilled milk or Nitrate dope. My wife was gone today so I started the recover job. After I removed the old (brand new) cover I re-sanded the entire structure. The purpose is to get it as smooth as possable. This sanded off all old dope so it was necessary to paint 2 coats of unthined dope on the areas where the new fabric will be attached. I covered the flaps and ailerons because they are small and I could use the leftovers from the first covering.
The first photo shows the precut fabric dobed to the leading edge of the flap. I cut a slot in the cloth where the control horn comes through the leading edge spar. the cloth is doped over the spar and across the top. Allow the dope to set up. The tecnique I use is to wet the wood, apply the fabric and then wet out the fabric. You can use the brush or your fingers to smooth the fabric out from the center.

The second photo shows the fabric pulled aorund the flap and doped to spar. You can leave the material a little long so as grip it and pull out most of the slack. After the dope begins to set you can trim the excess just below top of the spar. On this plane the fabric must be cut to allow the hinges to protrude thru. I make a slice at the hinge at this point and adjust the fabric while the dope is still wet. All of the seam overlap is on the leading edge spar and will not show.

The last shot shows the finished flap after it has been heat shrunk. It is important that the fabric be allowed to move freely during the shrinking process. For this reason the ribs and bottom sheet are not doped. The fabric is secured at the leading edge and on the end ribs. The trailing edge is NOT doped. I ironed the bottom sheet and all the wrinkles came out of both surfaces. The top was ironed to achieve the drum-head tightness I like. This fabric is a medium heat product and it will crush light structures if too much heat is used. If the part starts to creak, back off.

It took about an hour to cover and shrink the flaps and ailerons. Plus a little wait for the dope to dry between operations. I have not changed my opinion of Koverall, I still think it is the best covering I have used. Keep in mind that I have not used all the brands of material available and would like to try some of the Nelson fabric on an upcoming project.

More later.

Less than a banner day in the classroom. I could not figure out why our 1/4 x 1/4 pieces would not lay down towards the middle of the wing. Come to find out that I did not have the spine or the ribs on either side pushed all the way down. After many tears, I took the wing home and soaked the doublers with debonder. After some creative prying she came lose. I pieced it all back together and things are looking up. Then the guys building the rudder glued it to the desk. The wax paper was within reach. I fixed that within a few minutes. Rudder finedesk has a slight lump of balsa[&o]. Hope to get back on track today. A lot leary of the back section of the fuse. Going to start reading instruction from now until the time that class starts. Nice reCOVERery on your plane.

I think the instructions tell you to dry fit ALL the parts before glue is applied. At least you were able to debond it. Oh well, It happens to the best of us. Read some of the bone head mistakes in the "Worst mistakes" thread in the CLUB HOUSE forum.
I put in a CAUTION about the last former in the rear fuselage. Mine was soft and cracked when I pulled the sidewalls together. When you pull them try not to flex the rear former. If your former is spongy or flexable try gluing a stiffener at the top and bottom just big enough to work but not so large as to cover the pushrod holes. you would be suprised how stiff a 1/8 th part gets with a single piece of 1/16 th laminated to it. 1/4 by 1/16th C/A'd at the top and bottom om the forward side should do it. The instructions call for a rubber band to hold the sidewalls together while the top plate dries. Take care when do this opperation as the tail plate is cut with the grain and it can split as well. Just don't force anything and you will be OK.
Good luck.

You guys are going to be mad at me. I know I said that I would do a better job of documenting the recover job, but I went down stairs this evening and started to cut the pieces and forgot my camera. Cutting led to fitting, fitting led to doping and doping led to shrinking. I did the bottom and both sides before I realized that you guys were waiting for the covering tutorial. I left the top for tomorrow so I will give you a step by step, blow by blow, full blown pictorial demonstration of the top covering. The process is the same for all sections of the fuselage so the top will be done the same as I did the rest. I will have to cover vertical and horizontal stabilizers in place so that will be another show and tell. They are much harder to cover on the plane than on the bench. That will be a more instructive process anyway. See you tomorrow with photos. Sorry I got carried away tonight.

As promised we will cover the fuslage top tonite. Most of the steps involved are the same as covering with film. If you want to put this stuff on with Sig Stickit glue be my guest. In that case it works just like film. Apply the glue and iron down the perimeter using low heat then shrink using a higher heat. I choose to use the dope method which has been used by modlers and real airplane builders since year one!
The Pictures are in the same order as the construction. There will be two posts so keep on reading.

First be sure that the structue has had 2 coats of nitrate dope applied. Try not to thin the dope too much. Unthinned dope is better than thinned but it is a little tough to paint on. Let those coats dry before you cover. Cut a piece of fabric about a half inch bigger in all directions. Try to put the material on so that the finished woven edge runs the long way. Koverall shrinks more in the long direction and this give the best surface. Cut the finished edge off or you will have a nasty seam overlap. (photo 1)

Cut the material around any of the structure where it might lump up. In the secont photo you can see that I notched the fabric where it fits arount the former and the cabin sides. Trim the size so that it has about 1/4 inch for overlap. Apply dope to one end. I wet the area, press the fabric into the new dope and then wet the cloth so it will form and stick down. (photo 2 & 3)

When one end has set up (10 min or so) you can pull the fabric and dope down the other end. Remember that you are only attaching the fabric to the edges of the structure. No dope is applied in the field. The fabric needs to slip and slide as it shrinks. In our case the spine of the fuselage was not doped. (photo 4)

Continued in next Post.