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PST contact?

Old 06-21-2006, 02:35 PM
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Default PST contact?

Hi,
I need servicing on my 600r and tried to email PST , but it's been returned undelivered.
What is the correct e-mail adress?

also is there a service center in europe?

Thanks
Florent
Old 06-21-2006, 04:59 PM
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Default RE: PST contact?

Have you tried this from their site: http://www.pstjets.com/contact.html

They also have dealer contact information posted here: http://www.pstjets.com/dealers.html


Cheers,
Old 06-21-2006, 07:11 PM
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Default RE: PST contact?

ORIGINAL: Rider-60

Hi,
I need servicing on my 600r and tried to email PST , but it's been returned undelivered.
What is the correct e-mail adress?

also is there a service center in europe?

Thanks
Florent

Hi Florent,

What email address did you try? Was it [email protected]?

(Sorry, don't know why it screws the address up like that but you should be able to read it near the end of that messy character string...)

Thanks,
Kelly
Old 06-22-2006, 03:21 AM
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Default RE: PST contact?

I tried this one , I ended up leaving a message on the site automatic box.

----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<[email protected]>

----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to pstjets.com.:
>>> RCPT To:<[email protected]>
<<< 550-Callback setup failed while verifying <[email protected]>
<<< 550-Called: 205.188.156.249
<<< 550-Sent: initial connection
<<< 550-Response: 554- (RTR:SC) http://postmaster.info.aol.com/errors/554rtrsc.html
<<< 550-554 Connecting IP: 202.142.213.196
<<< 550-The initial connection, or a HELO or MAIL FROM:<> command was
<<< 550-rejected. Refusing MAIL FROM:<> does not help fight spam, disregards
<<< 550-RFC requirements, and stops you from receiving standard bounce
<<< 550-messages. This host does not accept mail from domains whose servers
<<< 550-refuse bounces.
<<< 550 Sender verify failed
550 <[email protected]>... User unknown

Kelly I sent you an e-mail, do you service only american engines or will you take european ones as well?
shiping to thailand or to USA is pretty much the same for me.

Thanks
Old 06-22-2006, 10:52 AM
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Default RE: PST contact?

Hey Florent,

I haven't received an email from you. I wonder if your account is somehow marked as a spam source or something to that effect? My service provider will automatically nuke a spam, so I'll never see it if it gets red flagged... I'll try sending you an email right away, since I think i see it in the previous post, and we'll talk over your engine servicing. In your case though, I'd still recommend sending it back to Thailand.

Kelly
Old 06-22-2006, 11:22 AM
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Default RE: PST contact?

Hi Kelly,

May be is it my aol account??

anyway I got your e-mail and replied, thanks

Florent
Old 07-30-2006, 02:02 PM
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Default RE: PST contact?

Kelly,
I'm installing a 600R in a R54. This is my first turbine. The manual isn't clear about the fuel system. The instructions say to connect the main tank to the header tank, then the header tank to the shutoff valve, then to the fuel pump, then to a fuel filter, and finally to the turbine. However, the diagram provided shows a different arrangement. What is the correct way to set up the fuel system?

The fuel pump I have doesn't have the mark mentioned in the manual describing the "in" nipple. It has instead an arrow going across the two nipples. I assume the arrow indicates the direction of fuel through the pump; thus the point of the arrow is the exit nipple - fuel to the turbine (?).

Please advise,
Thanks,
Keith Lindsay
Old 07-30-2006, 03:07 PM
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Default RE: PST contact?


ORIGINAL: speedbrake

Kelly,
I'm installing a 600R in a R54. This is my first turbine. The manual isn't clear about the fuel system. The instructions say to connect the main tank to the header tank, then the header tank to the shutoff valve, then to the fuel pump, then to a fuel filter, and finally to the turbine. However, the diagram provided shows a different arrangement. What is the correct way to set up the fuel system?

The fuel pump I have doesn't have the mark mentioned in the manual describing the "in" nipple. It has instead an arrow going across the two nipples. I assume the arrow indicates the direction of fuel through the pump; thus the point of the arrow is the exit nipple - fuel to the turbine (?).

Please advise,
Thanks,
Keith Lindsay
Hi Keith,

The pump supplier has since changed. You're correct that the arrow designates the direction of flow, so the one closest to the pointy end of the arrow goes to the turbine.


The shut off valve can go before, after, or one on both sides of the pump if you wish to have multiple emergency shut offs. Having it after the pump may cause a little more heat generation in the pump motor brushes due to the fact that the motor is effectively stalling when you close the valve while running. The advantage to using the valve after the pump is the net positive pressure on the o-ring seals. They are designed to operate with internal pressure, not a net vacuum. (same with all Festo or similar branded connectors) However, placing the valve on the inlet of the pump, so long as it has a reliable seal, does have one minor advantage. Upon closing the valve while the valve is running, the resistance to the inlet will instantly cause the pump to cavitate and run closer to a free wheeling condition. The current draw will be minimal and the valve won't see any undue wear since its still lubricated. Personally though, avoiding the extra leak point in return for a small amount of brush wear (if you ever need to shut it off with the valve) is a good trade-off. I always install the valve after the pump.

So, what I'd do in your case is:
Main Tank ---- UAT ------ Fuel pump ---- Filter ---- Ball Valve ------- Motor

The ball valve can be placed before the filter with no side effects, just go with whichever method is easier to install.


Other notes:
The filter position is critical for 2 reasons. 1st, you need to be aware that a fuel pump itself will create debris in the fuel system, a little more so when its new or near end of life. The filter should be placed between the pump and engine for this reason alone. Secondly, if the filter were placed before the pump, upon collecting debris and increasing its restriction it can cause cavitation in the fuel pump. That can cause all sorts of problems from the irregular fuel flow into the engine, again more reason to place it after the pump. If you’re using a UAT, the filter will be redundant before the pump anyway, since the UAT has an integrated filter. The UAT’s filter won’t cause a lot of restriction though, since its surface area is very large.

Keep in mind that the all fuel lines before the pump should be the largest reasonable size that you can use, and as short as possible. The pump's inlet should be as close to atmospheric pressure as possible for a healthy fuel system.

Good luck with the engine!

Kelly
Old 07-31-2006, 12:46 PM
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Default RE: PST contact?

Thanks Kelly,
I used your recommendations to set up the fuel system. I can't believe how many questions I have about setting up the engine. I'm sure the engine will become less mystifying once I have run it a few times. I just need to balance the model and charge the batteries....to be ready for the first flight.

I read many of your responses to other modelers about the 600R. I too had problems understanding how to plumb the gas system....but fortunately you provided some clear directions and photos.

Where can I purchase some 4mm tubing?

Thanks again for the help,
Keith
Old 07-31-2006, 11:37 PM
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Default RE: PST contact?

There are a variety of on-line retailers here that can supply 4mm turbine and Festo fittings. I also carry a good variety of heavily discounted Festo fittings and hose inventory for PST customers, although I'll supply them anyone that needs hardware...

I'll post a list in a bit.

Kelly
Old 08-01-2006, 07:49 PM
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Default RE: PST contact?

Kelly,
The list would be helpful...I'll purchase some Festo fittings and some 4mm hose.

Also, I noticed your picture of the Hot Spot (?). I bought one on eBay with retracts and servos. It came primered and ready for paint. It will be my next project....I was planning on using the 600R for power. Any recommendations on how to set one up?

Keith
Old 08-03-2006, 10:49 AM
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Default RE: PST contact?

I need to update my price list first, but I carry all the common fittings (plus some uncommon ones) and hose in 3, 4 , and 6mm. The discounts I provide are better than the other hobby retailers for most items. If you PM me a list of the exact parts you're looking for, I can get you the details. I'd have posted it by now, but I'm running pretty short on time these days... I've got a turn key jet on the go for a local modeller, and several PST engines in the shop for servicing. You can certainly tell is flying season, although I'm certainly not the one who's getting out flying it seems!

Anyway, on the Hotspot.... I actually fly mine on a 1300R, at full rated thrust. It's a blast!!! A 600R will fly one, but you'll be running it flat out the whole time, and vertical maneuvers / top speed will suffer. It'll need a long paved runway to get off reliably. I have not seen a 600R on a Hotspot myself, but I've seen a video of one flying with a RAM-500. It seems like the power was adequate for flight, but you certainly wouldn't want to fly with any less. The 600R has pound n' a bit more than an older RAM-500, but the performance won't be much different.

Just make sure you build it LIGHT! Don't glass the wings if you still have the option, as opposed to just using monokote... If the fins aren't glassed yet, only cover them with 3/4oz, since they are a common failure mode (flutter). Be careful with the hardware you use, choosing the lightest equipment, and make sure you place everything inside the fuse such that you don't need any ballast lead anywhere. Following those rules should give you a decent jet, all be it not a speed daemon.

Kelly




ORIGINAL: speedbrake

Kelly,
The list would be helpful...I'll purchase some Festo fittings and some 4mm hose.

Also, I noticed your picture of the Hot Spot (?). I bought one on eBay with retracts and servos. It came primered and ready for paint. It will be my next project....I was planning on using the 600R for power. Any recommendations on how to set one up?

Keith
Old 08-07-2006, 09:33 AM
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Default RE: PST contact?

Hi Kelly,
I flew my first turbine this weekend. Wow! What a thrill! The Reaction 54 and PST 600R combo is awesome.

I used tygon tubing for the fuel system. The nipples on the fuel pump require 4mm tubing. So somewhere in the system the two sizes meet. My manual says to stick the smaller tube into the larger tube 1/2 inch for a leak proof joint. Is there a fitting that joins the two different sizes? I noticed BVM tanks come with 6mm tubing, which has a bit smaller diameter (OD) than the tygon. I like the 6mm tubing because it is clear. So....I want a fitting that joins 6mm tubing to 4mm tubing. What is your recommendation for fuel tubing? Do you have a fuel filter designed for 4mm tubing? The only filters I have available are designed for glow fuel tubing.

I noticed the propane tank wouldn't hold more than one start sequence worth of gas. I used a trigger valve and closed the valve when the gas quit moving to the tank. The gas supply can was in a up right position. Any ideas on why it won't hold more?

What is the fuel consumption rate for the 600R? It really drinks the fuel. I have 54 oz. on board and can obviously use more. Would bringing the Max rpm down on the turbine decrease the fuel consumption enough to make a difference?

Thanks,
Keith

Old 08-08-2006, 02:26 AM
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Default RE: PST contact?

ORIGINAL: speedbrake

Hi Kelly,
I flew my first turbine this weekend. Wow! What a thrill! The Reaction 54 and PST 600R combo is awesome.

I used tygon tubing for the fuel system. The nipples on the fuel pump require 4mm tubing. So somewhere in the system the two sizes meet. My manual says to stick the smaller tube into the larger tube 1/2 inch for a leak proof joint. Is there a fitting that joins the two different sizes? I noticed BVM tanks come with 6mm tubing, which has a bit smaller diameter (OD) than the tygon. I like the 6mm tubing because it is clear. So....I want a fitting that joins 6mm tubing to 4mm tubing. What is your recommendation for fuel tubing? Do you have a fuel filter designed for 4mm tubing? The only filters I have available are designed for glow fuel tubing.

I noticed the propane tank wouldn't hold more than one start sequence worth of gas. I used a trigger valve and closed the valve when the gas quit moving to the tank. The gas supply can was in a up right position. Any ideas on why it won't hold more?

What is the fuel consumption rate for the 600R? It really drinks the fuel. I have 54 oz. on board and can obviously use more. Would bringing the Max rpm down on the turbine decrease the fuel consumption enough to make a difference?

Thanks,
Keith

Congrats Keith, happy to hear it went well! The 1st one is the best, but the novelty never truly goes away from flying a turbine.

Tygon vs. Polyurethane... 1st one important note. The 4mm polyurethane hose can be inserted into a Tygon hose, but ONLY on the low pressure side of the pump. NEVER try this anywhere between the pump and turbine as the pressure will cause a small fire hose style leak in your jet (and at the worst possible time I'm sure...). Personally, I usually exit my tank and connect to the UAT short section of large diameter Tygon. From the UAT onwards, all I used in polyurethane hose... So, exiting the UAT, I use 6mm poly hose as far as possible, then switching down to 4mm a few inches prior to the pump inlet (as close as you can reasonable get it will do). The pump exits with 4mm hose, but I immediately switch it back up to 6 for 2 reasons. 6mm hose will cause far less flow restriction compared to 4mm, and there's a really nice filter available from Hanger-9 which works well with 6mm poly hose. That is the filter I tend to recommend... ([link=http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=HAN143]link here[/link]) Before or after that filter, I install a 6mm ball valve, then switch back down to 4mm for entry to the turbine. Just make sure the filter itself is after the pump where it captures any debris created by the gear head. As I've stated before, the key to a healthy fuel system is to minimize restriction and attempt to keep the pump's inlet pressure as close to atmospheric as possible. If using multiple tanks in series, also make sure to use the largest reasonable size of hose / tubes for the connection and clunk lines. I keep stock of all the hose ang fittings which are described above.

Before switching topics away from filters though, you should know that there is a 'last chance' filter under the violet fairing on the engine. Running a J600R or J1300R for a few runs without a filter is obviously not something any PST rep will recommend, but it is possible in the very short term. Another note, the UAT itself acts as a good quality filter as well, leaving the other filter primarily responsible for smaller particles and / or gear head debris.

Converting the hose from 4mm to 6mm can be done with either Festo union connectors, or one of may kinds of barbed fittings (both of which I carry in stock with hose and many other fittings). Festo quick connecting fittings typically aren't recommended on the low pressure side of the pump, unless you're really careful and keep an eye on them for leaks, since the o-ring seal is meant to work with internal pressure.

The gas canister isn't meant to hold an abundance of start-up fuel... One or two starts typically. Personally, I have a trigger valve hooked directly to the check valve, immediately followed by the solenoid, and the tank is no longer used. The external source method has a few advantages, the most important of which are: less overall powermax usage since you're not wasting any liquid, lighter weight and less clutter since there's no tank to carry around, more reliable starts (applies mainly to cooler conditions), etc..... When you think about it, the operator should be in the direct vicinity of the aircraft in the 1st place, so the direct connection really doesn't have much of a downside. To try this, just pull the trigger before the start initiates, and let go once the red LED on the solenoid goes out (while ramping up to idle). The check valve could be replaced with a union fitting, but if the o-ring in the solenoid were to fail, the check valve does protect the circuit from venting hot case pressure from the turbine. (important...) If you use a Powermax canister and you choose to do the direct feed method, make sure you hold the canister up side down, such that the internal clunk only feeds off the gaseous propane/butane mixture. If you're at all unsure what you're feeding the engine, disconnect your feed hose and blow some off into the atmosphere in both orientations... Some canisters have an internal clunk, and some do not, so its important to know which one you have.

Thinking back, I think the last fuel consumption numbers for the J600R was 250 mL / min at max throttle. This is a very outdated spec, and was pretty conservative in the 1st place anyway. Decreasing the max RPM will of coarse help extend your flight time, but it won't be as fun! I would try to find a place for mounting another 16 oz tank or so in series if I were in your shoes. To compare, my Stingray has 2 equal volume tanks and somewhere around 80 oz. I typically land with one tank 60% full after 7 min of air time.

Kelly



Old 08-08-2006, 03:18 AM
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Default RE: PST contact?

Hi,

Just to fill in on fuel consumption. The J600R will burn about 250ml/min at 163,000 rpm and substantially reduced to below 200ml/min at 155,000 rpm. I fly for 8 minutes with reserve for 2 go-around on 2 liters fuel tank.

Kelly is correct that the internal gas canister is designed for 1-2 starts only. PST canister is machined from solid aluminium for maximium strength against rupture in case of a crash. If you want the canister to hold more gas, just make sure that the internal canister is substantially colder than the filling tank.

Regards,
Kraivuth S.
Old 08-09-2006, 10:18 AM
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Default RE: PST contact?

Kelly,
Thanks for all the information. I'll try to explain what items I want to buy. Following your advise the following desribes my fuel system and the items needed. The vent line from the main tank is a large diameter tygon fuel line; I also used large diameter tygon for the system filling line going to the UAT and the line connecting the UAT to the main tank. I will then use 6mm hose from the UAT to the pump- but will narrow to 4mm just before the pump; 4mm is required from the pump to the ball valve - going to 6mm immediately after the leaving the pump; 6mm tubing will be used to the valve and on to the filter; and finally 4mm used just before reaching the turbine. I will need three connectors (6mm to 4mm) to accomplish the above system. Since space is at a premium, perhaps the barbed fittings you mentioned would be best (?). What is the cost of the barbed fittings and the Festo fittings (6mm to 4mm, and normal fittings for both sizes)? I need 3 feet of 4mm and 6mm tubing.

I fill the gas system with a trigger valve into a one-way valve. I noticed it was difficult to remove the line from the one-way valve after filling...perhaps the cold temperature is the cause. I would be hesitant to by pass the on-board gas cylinder for fear of gas being ingested by the turbine when attempting to release the line from the one-way valve. Is it normal for this to happen? I feel comfortable serving the turbine and then closing the hatches and starting the turbine with the transmitter. It decreases the possibility of FOD and gets me away from the noise. Is this OK? The manual states the gas cylinder contains enough for one to three starts. I think that statement should be changed to read "expect one start".

The designer of the Reaction 54 is now working on replacing the 4oz UAT with a 16 oz tank. It obviously will provide for longer flights. I'll look at doing something similar once I get accustomed to flying my turbine.

Keith
Old 08-09-2006, 10:31 AM
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Default RE: PST contact?

Keith,
There is a custom tank which I purchased for my R54. I too use the PST600R. I beleive with this 70 ounce tank and BVM UAT I am getting about 8 - 8.5 minutes of flight time. Of course I am not flying at full throttle the entire time. I usually set my timer for 7:00 minutes and try to land with enough fuel for at least one more go around if I have to.
If you are new to the PST 600's, you have chosen an excellent engine for the R-54, it is a great combination. Make sure to not leave your fuel shut off valve open after landing, or you WILL get a wet start, don't ask how I know this.... the tank sits up a little higher and the fuel will drain into the combustion chamber. Other than that, now worries. You can find the custom fiberglass tank in the Reaction 54 thread. Cannot remeber the exact price, but it fits really well into the fuse. Good luck
Tommy
Old 08-09-2006, 11:08 AM
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Default RE: PST contact?

Tommy,
Your advise about shutting off the fuel valve is too late!!!! I learned this lesson before the first flight. Got busy with adjustments and such...not nice to see monokote dripping off the under side of the stab. Have since repaired my pride and the monokote. If you happen to see an address for the larger tank let me know.

Cheers,
Keith
Old 08-09-2006, 11:16 AM
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Default RE: PST contact?

I will see if I can find the guys name and number for you. I made a tube of aluminum on a stand for starting my turbine on the R54. it is has since saved me sveral Monokote jobs...LOL.
Tommy
Old 08-09-2006, 09:28 PM
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Default RE: PST contact?

Todd at Dreamworks has the 72 oz Kevlar tank for the Reaction - 54. I bought my Big Boomer tank from him. Try this site
http://dreamworksrc.com/catalog/prod...79062d0728cef3

Roy
Old 08-13-2006, 03:33 PM
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Kelly,
Please see my Aug 9 response for items needed.

I flew four times today. One ended a dead-stick landing; the shut down data didn't indicate any problems. All it showed was the RPM (135,000) but no faults. Have you heard of a similar incident before? It shut down three minutes into the flight with plenty of fuel remaining.

Jets are awesome!!

Thanks,
Keith
Old 08-13-2006, 05:01 PM
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Default RE: PST contact?


ORIGINAL: speedbrake

Kelly,
Please see my Aug 9 response for items needed.

I flew four times today. One ended a dead-stick landing; the shut down data didn't indicate any problems. All it showed was the RPM (135,000) but no faults. Have you heard of a similar incident before? It shut down three minutes into the flight with plenty of fuel remaining.

Jets are awesome!!

Thanks,
Keith

Hey Keith,

Sorry I've been a little preoccupied lately. UPS is really screwing me around with a package of engines on route to Thailand for repairs...

I've got a few suggestions / comments about your setup, but I'll post it later today if that's OK.

On your flame out issue, please refer to page 19 of your manual in the "after shut down" section. Could you tell me what position the asterisk is in on the left side of the screen?

Kelly

Old 08-13-2006, 06:43 PM
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ORIGINAL: speedbrake

Kelly,
Please see my Aug 9 response for items needed.

I flew four times today. One ended a dead-stick landing; the shut down data didn't indicate any problems. All it showed was the RPM (135,000) but no faults. Have you heard of a similar incident before? It shut down three minutes into the flight with plenty of fuel remaining.

Jets are awesome!!

Thanks,
Keith
Keith,
I had flameouts with the forward facing clunk Bruce shows on his plans. Is the UAT remaining full? Any air in it?
I switched the tank around to a more conventional layout with a rear facing clunk. Have not had a flameout in 70 plus flights. Pictures somewhere on the R54 thread. Dated around mid May early June last year (2005). Could not be an issue with the turbine at all?

Dave Rigotti
Old 08-13-2006, 08:07 PM
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Dave,
Thanks for the input; now that I think about it the flame outs occurred while doing maneuvers. I'll change the tank around before the next flight and will let you know how it does. The first flight of the day I stayed straight and level and had no problems. The other flights I performed some maneuvers and experienced a flame out.

Kelly,
The after shut down display had 135,000 in the #1 position; EGT 395C in the #2 position; PMP 2.84 in the #4 position; and Bat 7.51 in the #8 position. The only * was by the four and eight positions. Hope this is meaningful....flame outs aren't much fun. Fortunately, the R54 will glide to the next county if necessary.

Keith
Old 08-13-2006, 08:12 PM
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Dave,
I didn't answer all your questions! The UAT remains full; it has a small air bubble at the top of the tank...and stays about the same size. No obvious leaks visible in the fuel tubing and fittings.
Keith

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