Where are your receiver and ESC? My esc is in the compartment above the wing saddle and my receiver is the compartment aft of the wing saddle. If your components are farther forward, you could have trouble getting the cg back to 3.5".

Oh, did you use tail servos that are significantly lighter than the recommended HS-55s? I used HS-56's which are just slightly heavier...

Clark

Me and TManiaci found a way to mount the batt. pack father back. What you do is, with some scrap foam You lay down a piece on both sides and you keep on layering it untill the two sides come up level with each other and lay a peice of velcro across from the first compartment into the second compartment so that you have a nice level area to slide the battery back into the second compartment. Thus allowing you to get your hell raisers C.G. back farther. With this I can get perfectly level inverted flight( with hardly any down elevator) and regualr flight. as well as extreme 3D manuvers. It is difficult to do this with an already built plane. We did it while every thing was still in pieces.

Tylerman

I used the recommended hs-55's, I guess the increased weight of the 56's acting like a lever on the tourque arm did the trick. When I get my next one I will build up the fuselage like tylerman suggested.

I flew my Hellraiser for the first time this weekend and all O have to say is this thing makes my shockies look like crap. Running a AXI 2212/34, APC 11x4.7, Jeti 18P, Thunder Power 860 mah, Drawing 9.1 amps

One little note on foam safe CA. I tried it once and had the same results. Dry time was insanely long. I gave up and used epoxy.

After a suggestion from a buddy, I used some CA accellerator for the first time in years. I'm not going back to epoxy unless I have to! Joints harden up instantly. Much better way for a light airframe than epoxy.

Wow, a 2212/34 I bet you have no problems w/power. how does it fly overpowered so much? Do you think that the extra weight of that motor affects its performance?

It weighs 13.4 oz with a thunder power 3 cell 860mah. Hovers 2 clicks under half. I hardly fly over half throttle. Only draws 3.1 amps at half. 13 minute flights. The 2212/34 I think is a better motor for this plane on 3 cells.

It may be. But my plane still does just fine with the 2208/34. I can get a hover 3 clicks above half

Whats going on is this thread dead

I think the thread is dead, we are just too busy having fun with these. I was suprised to see a Shock Flyer person rave about this plane, I was thinking of trying out a Shocky, but I may skip it.

I will report that I finally, after about 50 flights, did something dumb and put my hellraiser into the ground. Not too bad of damage, broke the lower wing and kaban, but it all gued back together OK.

I'm still having a blast with my HR (about 50 flights now). It continues to draw an audience at any park I fly. Just last night I was flying it in 5mph winds and performed a nearly straight down elevator to a whisper quiet landing at a kid's feet. The plane rolled to a stop in about 6 inches. This 10 year old thought it was the coolest plane he ever saw!

Oh and I am excited to say I accomplished axial slow rolls and 4-point hesitation rolls for the first time just this past week! (I'm a sailplane pilot mostly) I love this plane!

I don't understand why there isn't more buzz about this plane. It looks so nice and flies very well. I think many people balk at the $80 price tag. But I think that is no big deal since you have to drop $200 of electronics and motor into any comparably sized aircraft. What's another $40 for a much nicer and stronger airframe (compared to something like a shocky).

I usually fly at 20-40' altitude so I've never crashed it even though I make many mistakes. Once I popped the battery out and the plane spun in. Landed in grass upright- no damage. Now the battery is strapped in not just velcroed.

Clark

Oh, I'm also experimenting with some permanent down flap on the ailerons to make a more curved airfoil. About 2 degrees. This seems to permit more stable slower flight although you cannot have a neutral elevator for level flight anymore. I'm not pushing the cg past 3.5" anymore either because that seems to make stalls and elevators harder for me.

I do trim the elevator neutral so that the elevator stick sits at the neutral detent during knife edge. You need to hold back on the stick a little for level upright flight, and forward stick a little for inverted. This setup makes slow rolls and KE easier for me.

20 deg flap allows really slow flight and steep level-attitude descents. Kind of like an elevator but the wing isn't stalled.

Clark

Hey there's a large pic of Mike and his Hellraiser in the latest issue of Model Aviation! Pg 52 in the article on the "JR Indoor Electric Festival".

Congrats, Mr. Glass!

BTW, I'll be asking for a new airplane for my birthday in May. Any chance you could design a full fuselage Extra for us? (hint, hint)

Clark

I run my hell raiser at 50% flaps all the time and to me it flies so much better.

Iwatson, Everbody crashes[]
A couple of weeks ago a was hovering the plane about 3 inches off the groung and i dumb thumbed it and slammed the entire front end in[X(] Oh well it was an easy fix. and my dad has a hellraiser too on his very first flight he had a radio malfunction from like 50 feet up and his throttle was jammed wide open headed straight for the ground. The entire front end got smashed in and now he has like 4 ounces of fiber tape on it. It still flies fine.

Lets try to keep this thread going.

For you guys who are having trouble with CA and Depron-
Here is what we use and it works very well, very fast .
The CA is Super Gold - or ZAP Oderless .
Then -- the accellerator is INSTASET--which we put in a clean CA bottle (use an old DeBonder bottle washed out with hot soapy water).
Add one of the thin teflon applicator tubes to the Instaset bottle so you can make very fine drips /lines.
We build many Depron models and this works for all joints and CF to foam joints
Second fix - toss all of the other tapes you use
Go to a medical supply discount house and buy -for 50 cents a roll - 1/2", MICROPORE fibre tape .
It is extremely light and tuff.
When you really wreck your model - tack it back together and put a strip of this tape on the joint - then add thin CA -rub in and wick on the INSTASET.
Presto -you have a rock hard splice.
We use this stuff exclusively for hinges too
Never ever have a hinge failure and we really hammer these things.
Also we re inforce all laminations such as those on Shockys -using this .
Our small models are very light - using these techniques -under 6 oz with 3 cell 350 packs

thedak hows your plane holding up? did you beef it up any? how does it fly compared to other foam planes? thanks max[8D]

Dick Hanson, Are you sure were all talking about the same kind of foam? Depron.
Thin CA eats away this foam like crazy

Thanks Dick! Will try those out on my next plane.

Tried a new set of flight modes for my HR today. They seemed to work well. My JR radio supports 3 flight modes and this is how I set them up:

FM0: this is the starting flight mode. Configured for conventional aerobatics and classic biplane slow flying. Full rates on everything. About 3 degrees down flap on both ailerons. Make sure you have enough rudder for knife edge and enough elevator for snap rolls and spins. I do all of my conventional aerobatics in this mode.

FM1: 3d mode. Full rates on all surfaces. 0 (none) flaperon. A linear NEGATIVE elev->flap mix (spoilerons); about 1/8" aileron deflection up when full up elevator is applied; about 1/8" aileron deflection down when full down elevator is applied. (Even as little as 1/16th deflection might be enough; still tweaking.) This helps stall the wing and hold high AOA at about 3/4 elevator. Makes "walls" eaiser. Works upright or inverted. Helps reduce wobbling in harrier/elevators. It's neat to watch the tail quickly pick back up to normal flight when you return to FM0.

FM2: super slow/landing mode. About 60% rate on everything. About 20 degrees down flaps on both ailerons. Be careful throttling back because the HR will really brake in this mode. It's easy to cut too much throttle and bring the HR to a standstill (and tip stall) while you are still two feet high. Ouch. But if you stay on the throttle you can do really nice 3 point landings with very little roll out.

Cheers
Clark

I guess I overbuilt my HR, but because of the battery placement, I just can't get the CG aft enough with my etec 1200. Any suggestions?

I assumed Dick meant the "foam safe" version of CA.

BoneDoc, Where is your cg now? 3.5" back is enough to hover. Mine is somewhere around that. You can go farther back and it will be easier to hover but I feel that begins to comprimise stability on other maneuvers like harriers and spins.

Read the previous posts in this thread for other ideas. If you have enough motor power, don't be afraid to add 1/4 ouce to the tail before you try anything drastic like cutting into bulkheads, IMO.

Clark

Between the snow storms I get some flights in. I built it exactly like the instructions and I have had zero problems with mine. I have two of these things. I have a brand new one for sale in the classifieds. I'll say it again. This is the most underrated and talked about foamy. I think people just don't want to take the time to build it. The best flying foamy!

BoneDoc,
Here is an easy way to move the C.G. way back[>:] by using only scrap foam and velcro-------

1. Take a few pieces of scrap foam approx. 1"x 2 1/2"
2.Take some epoxy and layer the pieces of foam on both sides of the front and back compartments untill they come up flush with each other. (Mine took two layers)
3.Once you have a level platform take a piece of velcro and lay it across the gap, and voila- you have a nice level area to slide your batt. in the extreme aft C.G. ranges.

thanks,

I have to try that

I'm glad to see more postings in this thread. I'm just finishing up my Hell Raiser that I got for Christmas. I'm certainly not a fast builder but CA on foam will make me think twice next time about buying a foam plane. Lets see, I glue a joint and wait 24 to 48 hours for it to dry, then on to the next step, Ugh. I read some tips from other builders and wish I saw those earlier on in the building process. Hopefully the plane flys as good as has been reported.

Fastdyno,

It sounds like you are having the same problems we did
We just said screw it and switched over to 5 min. epoxy on everything and got it done in a little over 16 hours.
Trust me and everyone else on this thread, it is definately worth the build time.
Keep us updated on when your going to fly this thing.