Will do. I plan on attending Friday and going out to the E-TOC.

Cheers,

Wiz

I've repeatedly predicted the finished weight of an airframe to within 4 ounces by weighing the components before assembly.
The laws of physics say that what goes in is what will come out. If you can't accurately predict the finished weight, there's
just one reason : you don't understand what's going in and coming out.

Kitman : Was your plane delivered as just another plane in the production shipment or did it come separately? Oh yeah,
I already know. It was a special preshipment A/C that was specially built to be shown at the WRAM show. Hmmm....

We know that Chip's planes don't weigh what he said they would. Let's start a poll to guess if he will

A) apologize and updates his website with accurate information
B) Apologize and fix the manufacturing problem resulting in heavy A/C
C) ignore it all and hope not too many people read these posts.

I really, really hope that it's B, because I want to own one of these things at 15 lb one day. And yes, I can tell
the difference in how a 15 lb A/C flies and a 17 lb one does. If I didn't, I wouldn't spend all my time weighing
stuff.

Barry,just when did you weigh Chips planes?
No there is another reason why weighing parts will not add up to the total, inaccurate weighing of the parts as most will do, due to how do the parts get accurately placed upon the scale.
Actually kitmans plane was not the one that was shown at the Wram show, that plane will be coming with me to the Toledo show where it will be shown just as it was at the wram show empty and still not weighed.
As to what Chip will do I will bet it is not A<B orC My advice would be just to put "it doesn't matter cause it is still the best plane of it's type on the market and an absolute steal for the price, fit and finish.
Of course there is always the other option we can get another one of Chips F3a planes built for you at the 5 kilo limit of course the cost for that plane will be approx $8000 ready to go, but for guys like you that need the extra light plane I am sure that is not an issue.
Its the old saying you can't please all the people all the time, we can only do our best to make a plane that is the finest 3d machine we can make in huge quantity to supply the demand, control fit and finish and Then do all that so they can be sold for $619 ARF with margin for a dealer. And according to most we have done a pretty great job of it, sorry it does not meet your needs, but we will continue to try harder for the 6-8 other planes we will introduce this year.
Respectfully
Don Kanak
Planes Plus Inc
Chip Hyde Products

I am going to use a ZDZ50, but have an engine mounting question. There are no reference lines on the firewall to use to line up the engine. There is nothing in the instructions dealing with engine placement either. Anyone have any ideas on where the engine should be located on the firewall?

Jack

I spoke with Chip and he said mount the engine as far up as possible. Here is what I did. I mounted my to the mount. I then held the plane up vertically. Then I put the cowl on. wherever the spinner matched up with the cowl cut out --- is where I marked it on the fireall. Then I drilled and installed my engine. I am using a Moki 2.1 with cline regulator.

Double Vision – DAY 1

Three days of test flying four new planes for the first time culminated in getting out and trying the pre-production Double Vision. I keep mentioning that it is a pre-production version because you will all get a plane with lots of little things sorted out and most likely lighter than mine.

If you are at 17 lb and have a DA 50 on the front – “Don’t worry – be happy!�

The 55F Sunday in NJ was still a bit cool due to some NE wind. I only planned to run the
DA-50, that way the decisions would be based upon getting the engine to run right rather than the desire to get into air at any cost that goes with testing a new plane.

I headed off to the local gas station and luckily found a gas attendant, (you are not allowed to pump your own gas in NJ), who understood the need to have 2 gallons put in my gas can instead of $2.00 � Turns out that he used to fly RC 25 years ago.

At the field the plane was assembled as follows.

how does the wings attach?

The 32:1 gas was pumped into the 24 oz tank. Everything was switched on and then it was “let the flicking begin�. Four flicks in I could see that the engine was dry. I switched off the ignition, opened the throttle and flipped it a couple of the times. Closed the throttle and one flick later it “popped�. Opened the choke, one flick and we were running.

The DA-50 ran well immediately. I walked around doing range checks with motor on (plane securely tethered). With the engine running so well I was really out of excuses.

Anyone have any idea what the recommended low rate set up should be?

I use the central hobbies degree meter and I put on all my planes low rates of 10 degrees on the elevator 20-25 rudder, and 15-20 on the ailerons. If 3d is on I usually for 40-45 on everything but ailerons, which I go 25 usually at the most. Those throws on low rate will test fly the bird all day and night.....

Here is a pic of the meter if you are not familier with those.

Eric.Henderson
she looks very ready see u N the air soon[8D]

The plane was a bit hard to taxi on rough grass and in a crosswind. Once the throttle was opened it just took off in a straight line. I need some down trim and a bit of left aileron. Later some right rudder for pure verticals.

Once my pulse rate slowed down I got down to some serious testing. I had been waiting to do this since late Jan this year and knew exactly what I wanted to do. I put the bird through a series of trim tests. Only mix that it needs was a little positive roll in KE. About 3-4 % rudder to aileron on my 10X. The down trim was because it was at the rearward CG point and I expect it to change when I move the centrally mounted battery forward.

The first test were pattern type maneuvers. This is a sport aerobatic plane but it flew like a pattern plane (Hmmm, some genes from somewhere?). The snaps were crisp and easy on the low rates. The spin could be entered and held with rudder elevator only. It reversed well and stopped when the rudder and elevator came out.

(BTW – my apologies for not measuring the throws yet. I have three rates set on each control and will check what they are when I finish experimenting with them)
This plane can roll all day. The large side area helps the transition from wing lift to fuse lift. Very little rudder of elevator needed unless going very slow. Stall turns were “on command� with a little throttle. Oh, and BTW I forgot about the cross wind because it only cause drift as opposed to weather vaning.

A few diamond loops and avalanches later I got urge to IMAC it a bit. Tried a quick hover remembering all the time that this was a brand new DA-50 on the front. Tell you what, Chip ain’t that good. This plane almost does it for you.. Joking about Chip, but not about the Double Vision.

Went for some very long KE power-off slides for a great height. Engine kept running as did my blood flow to brain. Applied power and went in to a KE-loop with no real problems. Tried some slow flight. It just cruised at what looked like no forward speed. I let it sink and added some purr-power. It just sank with no complaints.

Getting bold I went for a vertical snap. It just snapped and went on up. Did a couple more snaps and then chopped the gas for a cooling-off-down-line. I resisted doing too many vertical lines to be kind to the motor. The DA did not need full power to go up and impressed me how it ran on break-in ratio fuel.

Forgive me for extolling the virtues of this plane as much as I have done, but when you fly it you will get a taste of the free adrenalin fix that it gave me. I did a lot more in the air but will not list everything ad nauseam.

The last fun thing I did was to drop the flap on the top wing. Both ailerons come down as a huge flap. The plane just entered into a steep but level decent. Like an elevator but with no wiggling or waving. I had to hold down elevator which was subsequently added as a flap switch activated mix. Add power and you stop sinking and more and you go up even though you are holding in down. The bottom ailerons stayed as ailerons and also stayed effective.

I had used up 15 minutes of flying time and it was time to land. Normally I am a bit cautious on first approaches but not this time. Just lined it up, held a high idle, slowly flared, chopped to idle on contact and stopped in 10 feet.

This is a plane that will let you practice Pattern or all of your IMAC skills without getting a hernia lifting it out of the truck.. The 50cc gas engine is a beautiful thing to behold in operation. The Slimline muffler was loud at idle but not bad at higher rpm – (And that’s from a sound zealot).

Going off to watch the Sopranos now. Will change one of the 8411 elevator servos that got the “dance� and shortened my flying day. Will sleep well tonight Hmmm…zzzz

thanks 4 the detailed flight report and congrat on have a great day

Eric,

Did you opt to use dual RX batteries? Also, what size wheels did you use?

Lastly, did you use a pull/pull system on the rudder?

Thanks,

Wiz

I used one 4 cell 4000mAh Li-ion pack from Bern Furgang. It has two sets of cells in series and then in two parallel pairs. I also have two leads coming from the pack . Both leads are common to both pairs. The switch has two input leads to share the load on teh connectors Its light and sort of a back-up system, but is really just a parallel system..

Yes, I used the pull-pull. Kept the rudder servo as low as possible. Used an 8611 on rudder and 8411's on elevators.

Wheels are 3" from Dave Patrick Ultimate. Nice and narrow and light.

Hope this answers your questions?

When lining up the DA-50 you might hit the cowl with the cowl with the top engine lugs or "ears". You can cut off the lugs - these are the ones that take the stand-offs - and fashion a bracket to emulate the ears in a lower position.

An option that you might consider is replacing the top two crankcase bolts with 4-mm studs. The stand-offs can be used as replacement crankcase bolts. I filed two flats on the ends to allow tightening with a wrench. This method saved weight and looks a lot better than using a bracket.

It does mean that you put the engine retaining bolts in from the firewall, but that is not hard with the DV.

A couple of pictures to replace a thousand words :-)

Has anyone else had a problem with the placement of the triangular hardwood "pads" that the Aileron horns mount to? At least on my example, they are located almost directly behind the servo well. This does not allow you to offset the horn enough to the side of the servo in order to get a good 90deg. setup of the pushrod when the servo is at neutral. This is using only 1" servo arms. In order to get the proper geometry, only one of the screws in the horn is in hardwood, the other 2 are in balsa. Any ideas?

Jack

Thanks Eric.

I had intended to use JR 8231 servos on everything but the rudder. There I too have a single 8611 going in.

For batteries I'm planning on using 2 1400mAh NiCd packs and another on the ignition.

Wiz

I put the horns into the ply no matter what it did to the line up. Mine were only offset a little. The Chip-ball-bearing horn foot-print is a triangle and causes this miss. It does not seem to hurt the actual throws when you hook it all up.

You could lay in some new ply if you can't live with it. Also you dont need a big arm on the servo. Four ailerons will give you a heck of a roll rate if you want it.

Attached is a construction photo showing servo wheel. The horn was moved forward for actual screwing into place. Make sure you remove the covering under the triangle and put some CA there as you screw it in place.

PS - how do you remove a jpeg once you have added it to a note???

Actually the pads are in the correct place. If you install the horn on the edge of the pad with the horn slightly angled away from the servo it will have the correct geometry. With 1 inch arms at full throw you will have the best leverage. At full throw the pushrod should be parallel with the side of the servo case. In this way you have the most power and resolution at maximum throws. If it is at 90 degrees at neutral, at the end of the throws the pushrod is out of parallel and there goes your resolution as the linkage is over centered. It has always surprised me how many builders miss this even on 40% planes.

Mark Trent

That's a great tip, Mark. I wonder why I've never heard it before? Oh well, it makes sense to me now.

Thanks again!

Wiz

Eric, is that a plastic clevis. Are you spending the big bucks for the servo horn and titanium link and then depending on a .050 nylon rod to hold it all together?

Joe

You guys are eagle eyes, but you should expect more from me than that? :-)

In my defense, I was only using it as a lining-up-device during construction. The old photo was posted to show the size of the servo disk which lined up the horn over the aileron-ply-plate in a much better position.

(In a mono-wing you tend to use bigger servo arms and much more throw.)

In this case I actually used 4-40 ball joints in these standard horns. This was back in December 2003 and was before I got the neat ball-race horns from DA. The ball joints also moves the horn over more onto the ply plate.

Tank Mount!!

I just went to mark and drill the holes in the top wing tube, and it is too short. I noticed a couple of other guys said there upper tube was also too short also. Mine is 20", seems like it needs to be around 21". Are all of the DV kits like this?