archie was the ailerons tapered for a reason or just for shape etc?i did here once that you get a better roll rate with tapered aileron design,but looking at the wide cord by fuselage it should be more controllable in the stationary hover.

i heard for looks, the roll rate is great, the aileron authority is GREAT! even when going backwards. i got close to hanging but in the winds we had even the Cougar was left in the car. the wing adds some drag so you have to add some up trim ( handy to have two memorys ) but apart from that everything is good, KE is still fine, and the stall speed..... didn't find that

look forward to trying it,does look like it will hang well,should be able to catch it like me other fun flys.[8D]phil when you flew with the funfly wing did you use any aileron mix i:e up aileron with elevator etc.

no mix, infact from my copied standard wing set up i had two clicks of down trim. i did play with the engine thrust, think it was pointing up too much and i put a mix of throttle to elevator to cancel some climb! ( yes thick wing it should dive i know ) after i did this i had arrow straight KE and flight.
sadly i didn't get to play much, Choppy had almost as much time as i did lol
i never got to play in calm wind so i couldn't hang it propperly although it tired and was far easier than with the normal wing. the Cougar on the same day i think would have been blown away.

I'm hoping to get back in the air soon, bar the covering the FF wing is fixed. The fuz needs the thrust sorting and then covering.

for those of you that like your funflys, once this test wing has been propperly tested i would highly reccomend it.

what!?

The original idea was to go for tapered wing...

we changed the plan and went for paralell chord, but with a tapered aileron.

Two reasons for this... first of all to add shape.

Secondly.. it is true that (in my view)

paralell chord ailerons on a fun fly does not work... too much drag at the tip. (i.e. as you say Surrey - harriers etc)
secondly is control response. Ailerons that are too large can have an adverse effect...(unless they are of stiff balsa and have powerful servos)... they can twist and create too much blow back. Narrower tips help allevaite this.

Many of the fun flys today are actually designed to be flown at near stall speed.... maximum throttle control...
In truth many folks also want to hit the gas and do a bit of flying too.... thats when huge ailerons let you down.

We will see how it flies....when the rain stops.... its been absolutely bucketing down here today and tonight !

some more pics

sorry about the quality but outside pics was a no go today !

FF wing testing before i spanked the old Capiche fuz and proto FF wing.
from the flights i had before it went in, very nice.
3rd pic is prophang, tho the wind was making it hard to stay vert, so it was more of a harrier.

BTW Archie, roll rate on mine at speed, 3001 servos. fine, better than the Cougar maybe. no sign of blow back. Tho my cougar servos are now held by the wing covering alone..[X(] doesn't help.
Much quicker than the Pheonix at speed and it's barndoor ailerons.

i had my doubts about the section at first, my own wing was going to be of Hype section, propper FF stuff, tapered TE and LE to keep the Capiche shape. After the flights i've done however i'm very happy. would like to see a hypeish section tho just to see if it's better/worse. Like Malcolm said, this section keeps some of the pattern attibruites going. but.... if you've got a wing for pattern, do you need that in a FF wing?

Looks good Archie.
You know the old saying about looking right & it'll fly right.
If your weather is any like it is here, you won't be testing it today

You're right about blow back. Had a Frantic in the mid 90's with basic (3001's) servos'. and that would roll faster downhill, on idle, than uphill.

Let us know how it goes when the weather gets better.

Ian.

Philly that wing is nothing like a pattern wing

I weighed the two wings...

They are both a tiny bit on the heavy side... particularly the Fun Fly wing which when produced from the revised kit bits will be a teeny bit lighter....

Both wings have JR591s (ugh), and 3mm pushrods, and M5 steel wing bolts in place at time of weigh in.

Aero Wing weighed 530 grams : 18.5oz
Fun Fly wing weighed 490 grams: 17.2oz

My scales are digital but they aint great... but this seems to be about right I think

Looks nice archie.

Anouther reason for tapering ailerons according to my mate (sorry if someone has already said this, ive only scand through the last bit of the page) is that when you go to do a snap roll and you add aileron the tips aileron chord is smaller so the ailerons tip has a higher AoA. This makes it stall at the tip and makes the snap faster. Or sonthing along those lines

Talking of rain......non stop for 2 days over here. yesteday would have been a great day to fly, no wind, no sun in your eyes and not that cold....but it was bl**dy tipping it with rain[:@]

i didn't say it was a pattern wing malc, it just tracks better at a higher speed which a true fun fly wing might not do as well. i just wonder if it sacrifices a bit of fun flyness by not being a true fun fly section. It's fat, its got a light light light loading, it acts like a fun fly, but in a way i wonder if a total chalk and cheese effect between the two wings would be better.

Actually I dont like what you call true fun fly sections..

Take the Flip for example... I think the section on that model is wrong.

The Madness / Madness II section is good.

Cougar is good.

Hype Dont know... not looked at it..

The C50 Fun wing should by its design allow smooth forward flight whilst achieveing 3D Fun Fly charactersitcs.

However, it will NEVER be as smooth as the 3D Aero wing.. I think they will be chalk and cheese.

Pst down today so still nothing to report on the first IH C50 Fun !

[sm=drowning.gif] yep been raining here too. At least have managed to do most of my repairs. Recovering of the fuz due to comence shortly.

The FF wing is looking good. Don't know if I'll get one though. Too many projects lining up again.

hype is as the cougar i think, what i was going to use before i got the pukka plan.

will have to test in calm conditions, but it sounds like a comprimise. if i've got a Aero wing, i've got a wing for smooth forwards flight, it's not required on the FF wing.
the benifit of the current wing is you can prophang, fly within the patch and then go do some patternish stuff. a better pilot will find out if the funfly part has been comprimised. i'm thinking substall character, quick recovery, lower stall speed.

don't get me wrong, i think the wing is great as it is, and i'm privileged to have tested the proto. i just wonder if it's truely chalk and cheese, or chalk and a bit of cheese that crumbles like chalk.


damn windy here too, tested the Outlaw thats it.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE fly it Archie, rain, wind or hail. i just cant stand listening to all this speculative Bulls+@T no offense philly but i quote "its got more drag so it needs up trim" ...Doh... and in the next post you say it needed just 2 clicks of down trim?

Archie has to take on board comments from testers so he can make changes and produce a better model for everyone. we all must "keep it real" and only base things on fact not what you "think" it will go like. as for fun fly sections, the best section for that discipline is a thick flat bottom section giving good climb and glide and wide speed range. this would make a the Capiche fun, fly poxy as it would have a pitch change with speed/throttle.

also Archies Fun wing is lighter, you said yours was much heavier and it broke because the spars were built out of too light a wood!!

Confused [&o]

lol, poor boy...
when i added the trim covering to the plane i must have put the engine back with some up thrust. i had one flight before i tried the FF wing, so i didn't notice. i assumed having a thick wing it would pull the nose down at speed but to my surprise it climbed. i mixed throttle to elevator ( -2 on the ff8 ) and that solved the problem for that day. at home i lowered the engine angle a little and that sorted it. i never got to try the normal wing again to see just what was going on.
this is why i've been so jumpy about the upthrust in this new fuz...

my wing was built with my wood and my design ( some what ), my local wood supplier gave me !QUOT!hard!QUOT! 1/4x1/4 for the spars which turned out to be far from it. i was going to use the !QUOT!rock hard!QUOT! 3/8x1/4 for the spars and not ailerons, swap the ailerons to the lighter 1/4x1/4 but malc assured me that the ailerons must be 3/8th thick, and 1/4x1/4 would be fine on the spars. he didn't know my wood was too soft, and listening to a expert i went against my instincts ( bass wood would have been ok, but there was none )

this meant my wing was 6oz heavier, mainly the ailerons being built from this hard wood. also i think Malc said 3001's are heavier than 591's.
Archies wing is also CNC differently from mine and much lighter.
for the extra area, and the wood i used, i was happy with 6oz.

i realize what makes the perfect FF section, i used something like it on a own design for maximum slow speed stability and flight ( best funfly i've ever flown if i do say so myself ), but most funflys use the same symmetrical section. i was going to use what i think is the best of these, the Cougar section. Choppy did the hard work, i was just going to use it to get the same thing on the Capiche.

unfortunately i can only talk about the FF wing with my limited experience on it. felt great, i threw it everywhere. i thought i had a weird pitch hunt happen at a certain angle of attack as the wing stalled and flew again, but in those winds i cant be sure. Choppy gave it the thumbs up.
i just wish that while all the development had been going on i was still flying mine and learning all it's habits to pass on to Malc and Archie to help it.

As soon as the weather clears I will pop up the field...

Anyway boy... never mind banin on at me... you flown the new 140 wing yet ?!

Had you ever considered the possibilty that the Capiche HAS A BLOODY fuzz not a stick [:-]

Right OK I will have to go away and design a wing that makes the C50ff track poorly [sm=crying.gif]

im not a big fan of hitecs either. At the weekend i bought a pair of Hitec Hs-255 mighty minis like sprinks got for the ailerons. Took them home tested them. If you held it lightly at full travel then let goit jammedand had to turn the radio off and on again for it to unjam[&:] tried the other, it also did it[&:] after a while, it stopped doing it and they both work fine now. Seeing as this could happen in flight i will take them back when i get a chance.

i did a bit of sanding at the WE and also designed my probable colour scheme on a three view.
may post this evening

i don't think anyone gets where i'm coming from.

i already designed a wing that tracked poorly, for 30' i had no control at all.

I also have the hitecs on the ailerons of my Capiche 50, so far, no problems. Centering could be better, but i have not had one lock up in flight on this plane. On my Innovation Pro i have had one get stuck at full travel, but it was only for a second, but it felt like a lifetime!
If i could be bothered, i would get a set of those Futaba 3010s.

If I could be bothered !?

Luke... are you serious about this game or what !

3010s is a big problem.... Ripmax didnt realise how well they would be received and did not get enough in ! (Doh !) so I have back orders up to my armpits. How on earth they could have underestimated interest go only knows... Weve been waiting about two years for Futaba to catch up with a hi torque economy servo. !!

As soon as they arrive the 591s in my C50 will be coming straight out !

I did get some Hitecs for a C50... but I could not bring myself to do it... so I sold them !

luke if you value your c50 take those servos out and fit something better,trust me ive been there and done it with my last c5o and they were mgs[:@]im currently using fut 9303 ale round,and when pulling the wall at least i know the servo is going to hold up at least.

Ive seen those servos (which number escapes me) in the ripmax catalog which are futaba, metal gear, 9.5 kg torque, fast and standard size for 34 quid. they look good by the stats, anyone know about these? considering one for a rudder