rcjon

Gary,

In your 1/2/05 photo, what's the blue tubing running through the servo tray area for?

Jon

ez2bgman

My Feedback: (4)

Jon,

The blue tubing is fuel tubing for the pick-up line on my fuel tank. I haven't installed the fuel tank yet and have the excess tubing laying there for the fuel tank. Once I install the tank, I will be cutting it down to size (of course).

Until the next update....

Primodus

My Feedback: (56)

Gary, What prop are you planning on using on your 120? I have been using a 15x8MAS and it seems to hold too much speed on landing. I am going to try a 16x6APC in hopes that it slows the plane down some. With hinge points all around, I am not too worried about speed flutter, but landings at light speed are a pain.

Also, this Edge seems to be very pitch sensitive, any ideas how to overcome that without making it overly nose heavy? I have it balanced dead center of the suggeted range, using suggested throws on both rates.

Roll rate is kinda low, on high rates, so I will be adjusting that as well. I think it should be quick, not blindingly fast, but fast enough to make the point rolls crisp. As it stands, the point rolls fall out too soon. Rolls are axial through only one roll then drop out occurs. (I'm babbling again...)

On the performance side, the 120 really hauls this plane like a champ. Vertical is out if sight, and although I can't get it to hold, a hover would probably be at half throttle or less.

Can't wait to see pics of your finished build. I bet that checkerboard looks awesome!

ez2bgman

My Feedback: (4)

Luke,

I am going to use an APC 16x6 prop. That is what I used to break the engine in with. I was afraid that a smaller prop would carry too much speed on landings. One thing that I would really like to tray is a 3-bladed prop. Would you happen to have any idea on what size/pitch 3-blade prop to try for the Saito 120?

I wish I would have used hingepoints on all the surfaces. I forgot to get some at the LHS last week so I used some H9 CA Hinges that I had laying around. I like the H9 hinges better than the ones provided with the plane. They have a little more surface area. I also used 3 hinges in each elevator hlaf instead of the recommended 2. I don't forsee any flutter problems. But to be on the safe side, I will probably seal the hinge gaps for the ailerons and elevators.

After reading that you stated the roll rates were kind of slow in the PM you sent me, I set my high rates to 1" travel in both directions. If this seems too be to fast, I will dial it out until I get the desired response. I will then post my results here afterwards.

I am glad to hear that the Saito 120 has no problem hauling this bird around. I do not plan on attempting any 3-d flying due to the weight, but I would like to try to at least get a decent hover. My 3-d skills are very lacking and I did not purchase this plane for that.

Do you use exponential? Exponential will really help soften the pitchiness of these planes. Try setting your expo at around 30-40% and then go up or down as needed. It will probably take a few flights to get it just right.

Here's a dilemma that I have. I am expecting a package from a trade that I conducted here on RCU. I traded a tricked out T-Maxx for 2 Jr radios and receivers, some misc. servos, and other misc. equipment. One of the radios is a JR PCM10SXII and the other is a JR 8103. From what I understand, the PCM10SXII is supposed to be way better and easier to program than my Futaba 8UHPS. Should I go with the JR gear and start switching the rest of my fleet to JR, or stick with the Futaba stuff? Now I know that this is not the newer Jr PCM10X, but it is still the generation just before it and should be better than what I am currently using.

Thanks again.

Primodus

My Feedback: (56)

Gary,

Thanks for the info. I have tried the 16x6APC for one flight, but when I landed it nicked about an inch of both ends by smacking the runway. Low clearance. I have since raised the plane up a bit by bending the gear a bit tighter so that shouldn't be a problem now. I will check my aileron rates and expo settings this evening to see what they are set too and post that info here.

On the hinges, you should be fine with the gaps sealed. CA hinges, when properly installed are very durable. Adding extra hinges in the tail was a bonus also.[8D] I also added one to each elevator for added security. When I first purchased my Edge, the 120 still hadn't been listed as a recommended motor. They changed it about 2 weeks after I had my first maiden. I think a 14x8 or 15x6 3-blade should be a good match. I will post a thread in the Engines forum for assitance on that one. That sounds like a great idea for toning down this monster of a powerplant.

As for your radio "delimma"...Your on your own there. That question usually depends on the sway of the locals and your personal preference. I personally use Futaba at the moment, but I am not adverse to trying JR or any other brand. Whatever gets the job done better than the previous setup is my favorite of the day.

Calflyer

Hi guys, I upped the aileron throws to 3/4 inch and it spins pretty fast now. The roll response is instant, almost like an on/off switch! Use fast servos on the ailerons if you like a good roll rate. Also if you set the angle on the servo arm so that the aileron going up travels slightly more than the one going down, the rolls will be very axial and you should not see any drop off in direction. Primodus, I have my airplane tuned so that going from upright level to inverted, there is only the slightest, if any, change in elevator trim required. Took a while to get all the emgine thrust and elevator positions set but now it flies like an arrow, and rolls endlessly around the spinner! By the way I have a 91 FX with 15by 6 on it, and thinking for a long time to switch it with a new in the box surpass 1.20! No complaints with the 91 fx, pulls it out of sight, and hovers easily although not with great vertical authority. I probably could use a 16 by 6. Move the CG back about 1/2 inch or more and 3D will come naturally to this airplane! Expo on elevator is a must and will take care of the twitchiness in pitch response. Gary, mine lands very slow almost like a trainer but it took some practice getting the descent pattern right!

Primodus

My Feedback: (56)

Cal, sounds like you have it tuned in on the money. I have the inverted flight thing down to 2 clicks trim from one side to the other. The roll rate being so slow is what keeps them from being axial for more than a roll or two. I am still working on the decent pattern. My last landing had the gear doing the splits, stalled it 3 feet off the deck and it pancaked. THIS PLANE IS STRONG!!![>:]

Calflyer

Primodus, yes these are very tough indeed !!! I have given my 3 VF planes enough abuse, OUCH!!! One time in crosswind landing I cartwheeled and bounced my 66 inch Extra at least 2 full turns and escaped with only a broken cowl. Anything else especially the flimsy stuff would have surely disintegrated.
I think all the recommended throws are on the low side maybe to keep the flying safe. I always gradually max them out to what the plane can take. The ailerons especially can take a lot more before inducing a stall at high speeds. Other thing to be kept in mind is the airframe may not be able to handle the high stresses produced when the airplane is wrenched really hard.
Happy landings!

Primodus

My Feedback: (56)

I did a little upgrade to the Edge this evening. Installed a voltwatch for insurance, and a 6.0V 1400Mah 5Cell battery. I wanted to increase the speed and torque of the servos a bit. (Futaba 9001's for rudder and elevator, 3004's everywhere else.)

ez2bgman

My Feedback: (4)

Here's the update and pics as I promised...

She is all done with the exception of final balancing with the rx/batt. and rechecking all the throws.

I cut and installed the cowl and canopy and installed the belly pan. I am waiting to install the tail fairing until after I balance her. That way if I have to add weight I can add it to the tail area under the fairing.

The cowl was kinda fun to do (NOT !!). The Saito is so large that it took about two hours to do the cowl. I had to keep refitting it and then trimming, etc., etc. As you can see, I have two fairly large holes on the plane's right side of the cowl. The upper hole is a for a recessed remote glow driver. The lower hole is for the Slimline remote fuel filler. I really like the Slimline unit. It has no valves to go bad, just 3 o-rings that need replacing if any problems develop. Very simple and robust. As I stated in an earlier post, the remote glow unit is actually designed for helicopters. In the original configuration that I had it, the remote glow would have been sticking out the cowl. I desoldered the leads and flipped the mounting bracket so that it would mount flush. Now it is a much cleaner install.

The canopy was a bit of a pain to do as well. After several trail fits and trimmings, I finally got it where I wanted it. I started at first to mount it with the screws, but I wanted a cleaner appearance. So I used some canopy glue and some of the excess red and white to trim the canopy. The end result appears that the canopy is just sitting on the plane. Very clean.

I have 8 more pics, so here are the first four.

Thanks again for everyone's help and follow up on this thread as I will be doing an indepth flight report.

ez2bgman

My Feedback: (4)

Here are the last four pics.

You can see how well the checkboard came out. It took considerable time to do it, but the end results are truly amazing. I wouldn't hesitate to do it again if I had to do it over. It adds tremendously to the overall visibility as well.

I changed the method in which I started the checkerboarding too. At first, I actually painstakingly cut all the red covering off the bottom of the right aileron and then recovered it with the checkerboard. After a couple of e-mails to VF, Chuck informed me that I could apply the iron-on covering directly over the existing vinyl covering, as long as the iron wasn't too hot and didn't contact the vinyl covering alone. This worked very well over the rest of the surfaces that I did. I kept the heat to a medium/medium-high setting and did not keep the iron in any one place for too long. Be very careful when doing the wing. Too much heat could distort the foam underneath. I know from first hand experience. Luckily I caught it quickly and was able to smooth the area out.

If there are any questions or specific pics of the Edge that anyone would like to see, please drop me a PM or post here on this thread. I will try to help in any way that I can.

Until next time, good luck and happy flying.

Calflyer

Gary, those checkers look hot and should be a great orientation cue! If I ever go with my surpass 1.20 its going to be inverted. Cant believe there's a 1.20 Saito GK well concealed in there and the cowl sides are clean! Its gonna be a blast to fly!!! Thanks for a super review. Good idea to leave the wheel pants off for now till the landings are perfected.

ez2bgman

My Feedback: (4)

Cal,

Thanks for the compliments on the plane. It took me 6 days from start to finish. I put considerable more time than the 10-20 hours for your average ARF. I always end up customizing my ARF's in some fashion. I guess it is a sort of signature to distinguish my plane from the others .

Our field is a very bumpy grass field and loves to eat wheel pants for breakfast and lunch. I went through 2 sets of wheel pants on my H9 Aresti 40 in only 3 weeks. Now I just leave them off. I need to make a set of wheel pants out of Kevlar. Since Kevlar can withstand bullet strikes, maybe it can take some landings on a rough grass field [sm=idea.gif].

If you decide to usae your 120 Surpass inverted, take the extra time to ensure a perfectly level mount. I read several threads here on RCU where different modelers mounted their engine inverted, but only had to redrill 2 new holes in the firewall. I took the extra time to align the mount level with the fuselage and ended up having to redrill 3 holes, but I think the extra effort paid off in the end. Here is the method I used: I used 2 levels, one laying across the fuselage where the belly pan mounts and the other rubber banded onto the mount itself. Once I ensured the fuselage was level, I screwed in the mount and aligned it with the level. Then I marked the new holes. Popped out the the blind nuts, redrilled and reinstalled the blind nuts. I also filled in the old holes.

Good luck with your Surpass 120 and happy flying.

Primodus

My Feedback: (56)

I resemble that remark. It isn't as bad as it sounds. Looking at it from a head on view you can't see much of a difference. (see pics) And the flight characteristics are the same either way as far as setting thrust angles. As for performance, it runs exactly like a Saito 120 should, be it inverted or not. The vertical is out of sight, literally.

ez2bgman

My Feedback: (4)

Luke,

My comment was not made to upset anyone. I am just a nit picky perfectionist when I build/modify. I read your thread from beginning to end. I feel that you did a wonderful job on your Edge. I especially enjoyed the very detailed flight reports you made.

I should be running her for the first time later today (hopefully). I have to hit the LHS first to pick a few misc. parts.

Thanks again and happy flying.

Primodus

My Feedback: (56)

I took no offense, just being silly I know I was lazy in mounting the engine, I admit it. I look forward to seeing her outside in her natural surroundings (the air!).[8D]

rcfury

My Feedback: (5)

Im still shell shocked how long it took you to build. I got my plane well before you did and im still not done. I maybe only work on it a couple of hours a night. See i work at hobby town and after work im usually in no mood to work on the plane because i was fixing and tweaking on planes and cars all day. Kinda get burned out after a while.
Anyway. If I might throw in a couple of questions. For the fuel tank. The instructions states the top of the tank should be inline with the carb. From my experience it should be centerline of the tank to be inline. Am i correct? want to be sure before i start glueing in my fuel tank supports.
Also to line up the elevator halfs what is the best way? thinking a scrap piece of balsa to hold it in place while clamping on the collets.

I just picked up my letters from the local sign shop. Im putting in very large letters on the bottom of the wing, "EDGE 540". EDGE on one wing and 540 on the other. Its gonna look nice. Ill post pics when i get them put on.

ez2bgman

My Feedback: (4)

rcfury,

I installed my tank so that it's centerline is inline with the carb. That way you get a more consistent fuel draw.

To line up the elevator halves, I used popsicle sticks. I taped one one the bottom of the h-stab and one on top, overlapping the elevator. I did both side at the same time to ensure that the elevators are lined up. Then I adjusted the clevis until it lined up.

Post some pics of your Edge. I would like to see more pics of everyone's "pride and joy".

Until next time, happy flying.

glowplug

My Feedback: (1)

Great thread guys.....I'm learning a lot of tips for this plane as I anxiously await the delivery of mine!!

Primodus

My Feedback: (56)

Balancing tip: With a Saito 120 on the nose, a hatch should be cut to allow placing the battery as far back in the tail as possible. I use a 5cell 6.0V battery and get a perfect balance with no additional wieght. A 4cell 4.8V in the same place makes it hair nose heavy. The RX can safely be attached to the trailing edge wing dowel. See pic below. I have since made it a little neater, but the basic placement is the same. Note the battery lead going into the fuse toward the tail.

ez2bgman

My Feedback: (4)

I made a hatch in the rear of the fuselage too. I am using a 4 cell 4.8v 1000 mah batt. pack. It was still a tad nose heavy and I added a few ounces to the tail group, just in front of the v-stab, under the tail fairing. Now it balances right at the recommended 4 inches from the leading edge. I also made the mount for the batt. so that I can shift the batt. a little fore or aft to change the CG as needed.

I mounted the rx in the area intended for the throttle servo. Since I mounted the throttle servo up front near the firewall, the stock throttle mount was the perfect area to mount the rx.

All I have to do now is get an rx switch and mount it and she will be 100% flight ready.

Primodus

My Feedback: (56)

Show off! [sm=bananahead.gif] LOL

ez2bgman

My Feedback: (4)

Primodus,

Do I sense a bit or jealousy? You just wish that you could be like me.... [sm=RAINFRO.gif] HeHe.

Later

Primodus

My Feedback: (56)

Ahhh...the Cajun mentality.... You must be psychic, after seeing how your wings looks with checks I went and put them on mine also LOL. It looks awesome in the air.

ez2bgman

My Feedback: (4)

Primodus,

You copycat...[:-] LOL

So how did she fly? I will be taken mine out for her maiden this weekend, if the weather hols up. They are forecasting a 30-40% chance of rain. And down here in New Orleans, when the chances get up to that lelvel you can bet that it will rain. But knowing me, I will still go out to the field and try to put her up whenever I can .

How did your wing-fuselage gap end up? Did you do anything to secure the trailing edge to the fuselage side? I drilled a hole on each side of the fuselage, just behind the rear dowel, and into the root rib on each wing. I tapped the hole for a 1/4 x20 nylon bolt. I reinforced the threads with some thin CA. I think that this should be more than enough to hold the trailing edges to the fuselage.

Get some pics up here of your recovered wings (again COPYCAT... LOL).

Later