that is exactly what they are......well..it isn't ultracoat... it is some sort of vinyl....or something

It must be thicker than ultraKote or MonoKote...Isn't it a hard "Shell" to protect the dead soft foam?

I mean you can't dent the wing with a fingertip...or easily just plunge a t-pin through the wing using only the same light pressure you would use to push a t-pin into a chunk of foam...Or can you....

My plane hasn't arrived....and I'm sure I would say "Duhhhhhh" if I had the wing right here..

Thanks for the info.

Larry

LOL,,,, right again Larry. Be very careful when working with the wing or you will put a fingernail dent in it. Funny thing is that I have cartwheeled this plane once or twice and came out with only a slightly bent wingtip that I heated and fixed. Balsa sheeted wings would have either been a total loss or a days repair and recovering job.


THIS SIDE DOWN
LOL !!!! That's great Bunn !!!!! I haven't put anything on my new wings yet. Now I need to come up with something original.

So bunman, do you think that the differential in the ailerons worked out pretty good? Ive been flying the edge with no differential with pretty good results but, I know my vertial rolls are Horrible which some differential could help out.

I wish i could fly my plane more but, with all this construction going on at my field my high dollar nitro is just burned in the backyard as Kurt puts it

fury,

I can't say that I've given it a real comparison as far as the differential goes as I haven't flow it without. It does roll very axial with it I know and my sense is that will improve now that I have both ailerons doing the same thing. When I flew Saturday I had set the differential measuring the travel on one aileron and assumed the other to be doing the same thing. It rolled awful to the right but beautiful to the left so I brought her in and measured both...let the games begin with my radio setup trouble. At the field that day I bumbled through enough settings to get them close to doing the same thing and the second flight was MUCH better! I also sealed mine during the build using some of the supplied covering to make them more responsive. That was Grandpop's tip. Both my ailerons had a slight bow so there was more gap in the center than at the ends of the hinge line which REALLY showed big when they moved down. After sealing they look great and have lots of authority too. It doesn't make a ton of difference during forward flight if they are on low or high rate. Once you throw it into hard maneuvers like snaps and Lomchevaks and such the dual rates become more evident. Those few snaps I did on high rates were so fast the plane turned into kind of a red blur in the sky. When I released she came out inverted and I didn't reaize and pulled the nose up...you know the result, "THIS SIDE DOWN".


Sturtz...I was hoping y'all get a laugh out of that. Got my first hangar scar carrying it around the house to get that picture. I don't even know what did it but I got a small dent/smudge on the turtle deck. I cut a small piece of spare covering and stuck over it but as soon as someone touches it there it'll show again and you know what's gonna happen when somebody notices the patch! I'll probably have to fill it with some putty or somthing and patch it again.

God bless,

-BunnMan

You can remove those dents Bunn. Take a piece of cotton cloth or an old tshirt and lay over the area. Get a LOW setting on your sealing iron and apply a little heat gradually. Takes some time and patience but after a bit the foam will expand and refill the dent.
Don't get in a hurry or use too much heat. Plus certain dents in certain areas don't respond to this treatment. I lightly dampened the cloth with water and it helped increase the draw and cool the vinyl. After it's taken all the heat you dare apply take your wife's vaccum and place the hose (no attachments) over the area and move it around while it's still warm. The dent will pop right out.
I had one tiny dent I made in the wing while man-handling the wing assembly at the field. Heat wouldn't fix it. So while taking my dog to the vet's for his yearly shots I asked for the used hypo. (I explained what I wanted it for btw.) I drew a couple CCs of foam-safe medium CA and injected it into the center of the dent. Problem solved. Also for those still waiting on their Edge you may want to do as I did while installing your ailerons, elev and rudder hinges. Use the foam safe thin CA if using CA hinges. Regular CA will melt the foam within seconds if it gets past the 1/2" of wood along the edges of both surfaces. (Don't ask how I know this one.)[]

This dent is in the rounded top of the fuse a few inches ahead of the rudder. I think that's balsa sheet so the heat trick won't help. I tried a hair dryer and no dice. Tried the hair dryer on a patch and the patch stuck to the grain lines in the dent so I peeled it off (leaving glue residue) and cut a slightly larger patch then re-applied.

Can't wait to fly again.

Anybody ever get an Edge for G3?

God bless,

-BunnMan

Sounds like a good place for a decal now Bunn. LOL !!!

Man,,, wish I had the VF Edge for my Reflex XTR.

I would be also enjoy the edge on my reflex. Tried building one with their program of course i couldn't figure out how to draw a line with it. So thats been collecting dust.

Ok,,, I'm finished. (Sort of.) I ordered a new cowling so I can swap back and forth between the Saito100 and the .91FX. They both fit perfect without changing the motor mount.
Anyway,,, you already know what stuff I've been working on to reduce weight in the fuse. The area right behind the firewall between the front and the LG got a nice big hole cut out in it. That made a big differance. Used the old rudder rod tube for the antenna wire.
In some of the pics below the 6volt battery pack wrapped in foam is setting along the belly structure but that will change after I CG it I'm sure. Also was playing around with some blue pin stripe tape tonight. Just to get an idea how it looks. Don't like it. Maybe black,, but not the blue.

VF Edge diet in pounds and ounces.
Before the dry weight of the plane was 8-3/4LBs .. easy nine pounds++++ when 14oz tank was full.
After the Sturtz Diet. Total dry weight is 7LBs 4oz.

Great job shaving a pound and a half off that airframe, look forward to the flight report. Only thing I see off hand that I'd be uncomfortable with is that rudder pushrod. I'd swing that servo arm 180deg. to the top to get a straighter shot at the control horn. You gonna fly it this weekend???

God bless,

-BunnMan

I will second on the rudder servo arm.. You would get more mechanical advantage by moving it around 180. So how big of a hole did you drill right behind the firewall? I take it then you covered the hole with covering? After seeing that much weight was reduced i may just go ahead and do that. Then again i kinda dont want to take the time and move the servo in the rear

The rudder now bangs the elev halves at 85% throw. No binding or stress. It just looks differant . What I was trying to accomplish is distance from the rudder pushrod to the elev horn. But,,,,, it's a small change to make so I'll probably move it back tomorrow.
The hole behind the firewall is 3 1/2" inches across and 3"inches wide.
Will be too windy this weekend I'm afraid. 15 to 30mph . But,,, if I get it CG'd and the rudder servo arm reversed I wouldn't be afraid to fly it. I'm hoping the weight loss will allow me to go back to the Saito. So much more throttle managment with the 4C.
The truth is that changing the rudder location was one of the easier mods I've done to this plane. Like John from VF said,,, "It's amazing how much weight the small stuff adds up too." And that is one reason I redid this Edge. Take the throttle servo . I had a big bunch of wood and epoxy holding the first one in place. Now I have a small popcicle stick brace that is stronger and lighter .
But the main thing has been shaving and sanding everything to the point it's much lighter yet remains strong.

Update: Changed the rudder servo arm. Lost a bit of throw but it will be plenty enough.

Glad to see you moved that servo arm...even if the other factors aren't notiecable, it looks a whole lot better that way . As far as mechanical advantage it stands to reason that you would move less with an increased advantage...the old lever arm law. Besides, looks like you still have a hole left on that arm. For me it just looked as if it might promote a bind in the horn on the rudder during extreme maneuvers. With most of us using high torque servos for that control it seems good practice to follow it all the way through with clean linkages as well. A hard angle on the rod like that would bias your throw to the left as well. Granted that wouldn't be as noticeable on the rudder as it would aileron but would show itself in some maneuvers.

About your pin stripes, I would recommend something metallic. Especially if you are looking into black. Maybe a dark metallic gray like ash or smoke. That would give you a slight change in appearence as the light reflected off it differently. When shaded it would appear black but when reflected from with a good dose of light it would look almost silver and would really serve to "dazzle" things up a bit. I used Top Flight striping that I picked up at the hobby shop because it is REAL thin and therefore very light. You could save a few bucks at an auto parts store but the material will be thicker vinyl and heavier, something tells me that would matter in this case .

Those are some pretty stiff winds you have corecast there bro. Especially with a leaner airframe. We have 61deg. and 5-10mph forecast for tomorrow here so I'll be trying her out again. I'd like to shoot some video if I can find a volunteer at the field tomorrow. Any idea where I could get it hosted online so everyone could view it?

God bless,

-BunnMan

The rudder's pushrod position was basically temp till I could spend more time looking over the deflection and throw. There is a hole left in the horn but using it would put you awefully close to the elev horn . I may even go back in and patch the rudder servo hole and install the servo on the other side of the fuse because I noticed they were all on one side of the plane. Lateral balance could be a problem but I'm hoping the heavier 6.0volt Nicd mounted on the opposite side will even the weight . If not,,,, the rudder servo gets moved.
I took the pin stripes off and will not add any more decals, glue, paint, wires or kittens. (just kidding) Thats what got me heavy in the first place. Not knowing when to quit adding extra features and over-securing hardware and radio parts. The tank is layered in a foam cover I made. There is a small solid block of foam between the firewall and the tank to prevent fuel line crimp or sudden forward movement on a fast/hard landing. Before the diet plan I had enough foam crammed inside the tank area to stuff a mattress. LOL

Thanks for the honest opinions and the second set of eyes guys. Sometimes it's easy to overlook simple ideas and I for one need friends to look over some of the crazy stuff I do to my planes before going out and testing them.

Bunman: Sounds like youve been around the block a few times. So i second everything you said in your last post.

Right now im waiting for my cline regulator to come in. After I install it ill run it again in the backyard to make sure everything is good for a new flight. Thats if i can get this wind to stop too. Yesterday and today has been like a hurricane.

[link=http://www.putfile.com]Putfile.com[/link] hosts some videos so you might want to check them out.

Balancing! Yea, I know - I bought the plane in July and I still haven't flown it - I'm a slacker [&o]

Any way - I can't seem to balance this thing. It is touchier than any plane I've dealt with on a CG machine.
With 1/2 ounce of lead on the tail, the following pictures were taken.
Now, both pictures - weight is in the same spot but I can "position" the plane at either angle and it will not move. Granted, if I tip it forward a little bit its going forward or if I tip it backward a little bit, it's definitely dropping the tail. It just seems to me to have a couple of different positions that it likes to sit at with the weight in the same spot. Also, I have to level it out until it stops going forward/backward by hand - is that normal?

Also...someone way back asked for pictures of how I had the internals set up so I'm posting a pic of that too.

have you tried cg-ing it inverted? im no expert but i think most people put the weight mass towards the bottom(such as canopy and rudder) and i think this will make a difference imo.
i always balance mine inverted unless its a high wing and then the weight mass is on bottom and i know you have to weigh a high wing right side up

good luck

still waiting on mine[]

I'm going by what John from VF told me - balance it right side up since it's a mid-wing.

shakes, im sorry, i thought you were having problems and were asking for some advice,sorry to have bothered you.

GJeffers, you weren't bothering me
Based on all of the reading I've been doing, basically you can balance a mid-wing plane rightside up or upside down. Most of the recommendations I have seen for mid-wing airplanes show right-side up. So, I'm confused. I've balanced low wings upside down and high wings right side up but this is my first mid-wing airplane. Yes I was asking for help since I can't seem to get it right. In the pictures they both look acceptable to me however, what boggles me is that the weight placement on the tail never changed.

shakes, are the ball joints on your cg machine tight, by what youve explained it sounds like they might be. my cg machine is very loose and no matter how you set the plane it will move, unless its just right and balanced

Nope, they are loose - and if you breath on it, the plane will shift.

I would say you're balanced if the plane will stay at an attitude when placed there on your machine. As agreed, this is a mid wing plane which does make it a little touchy on a balance beam because the point at which you balance from is so close to the middle of the vertical weight center as well. With a high wing you get plenty of pendulum effect when balancing right side up, same with a low wing balanced upside down but not as pronounced. This pendulum effect works against you when doing maneuvers like snaps, lomchevaks, axial rolls, ...etc. because it causes the airplane to barrel around the true CG. This airplane is designed to perform a great variety of maneuvers with wonderful precision. The CG fore and aft is therefore a bit more difficult to measure because the CG top to bottom falls within the wing as well. Welcome to extreme aerobatic airplanes [sm=drowning.gif]. Balancing on the beam will get you close enough for safe flight, how it performs when flying will help you zero in on the right balance point for your style. The instructions say 4" +/- 3/8" that's plenty of slack to mess with. Get it close to 4" and fly it, adjust from there. I'm trying to settle on my desired balance point as well. Looking forward to some air time tomorrow, wow, look at the clock! I mean today!

God bless,

-BunnMan