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Welcome to Club SAITO !

Old 07-29-2010, 09:47 PM
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ORIGINAL: w8ye

P-47

Getting valves out of a used cylinder is a real P.I.T.A. The top edges of the valve stems and the top edges of the retainer ring groove get a flashing on them and the valve will not go down through the guide. In some cases, it is difficult to even get the spring retainer off the valve. You have to go in there with a riffle file and try to get the flashing off the valve stem. You will spend an hour on each valve just trying to get it out of the head without scratching the valve guide.

On a broken head this is not too bad for you can drive the valve down through the guide and clean up the stems with the valves out of the heads. Goes a lot easier.

You best just try your luck with cleaning the valve stems through the ports. The intake stem is usually clean.
Sounds like very good advise, thanks!
Old 07-29-2010, 10:01 PM
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I know this is of topic but please can someone help? I have a saito 125 with less then a half of a gallon threw it and it runs like a top. But the tiny tip on top of the push rod fell out of the little cup it goes in on the adj screw on the rocker arm?? I check it with a feeler and it right on. But when you push down on the valve spring it falls out again. Does any body understand what is going on here???? Thank you for your time Eric
Old 07-29-2010, 10:41 PM
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Put the push rod tip back in the socket and don't be pushing down on the spring anymore
Old 07-29-2010, 11:30 PM
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I know that but why would it fall out in the first place?????????? That was what started all of this no compression. Then took the covers off and found that, put it back and runs purfect. Trying to find out why it would fall out. I don't think I worded that other post right.
Old 07-29-2010, 11:42 PM
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The only things I can think of are either damage to the tip of the pushrod, damage to the cup on the rocker arm, or the valve lagged enough to become unseated.
Old 07-29-2010, 11:42 PM
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The valve is sticky and remained open for an instant once and the push rod fell out.

Put some oil around the valve stem and work the valve up and down some. The pushrod will fall out again but you can put it back in when you are done working the oil into the valve stem.
Old 07-30-2010, 12:18 AM
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Thank you for all of your help great thread.
Old 07-30-2010, 07:18 AM
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In answer to the turboheader question of: is it worth it? IMHO yes.

L.
Old 07-30-2010, 07:40 AM
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ORIGINAL: w8ye


ORIGINAL: mike early

I always assumed the dots were lined up with the crank pin and centerline of the cam shaft lobes. From what you are saying, the cam is meant to be advanced a bit. Perfectly understandable, I've degreed cams in my Small Block Ford many times. Even have a cam wheel and dial caliper, etc for this procedure.
You've mentioned this before. My apparently retarded (no pun!) situation yield a great idle, but gives up top end, I think you've said. I had forgotten that. But I don't think I've replaced any bearings since I read your post, and since forgotten. I am glad you reminded me. I got plenty of room on the idle to give away. It idles at 1500 with a 16x10x3blade. 2000 would be fine.
I didn't get a chance to pick up the bearings from the LHS today. I'll install them tomorrow night and take a photo of the crank-pin through the open back plate when both valves are open the exact same amount. I''ll shoot for 1 tooth BTDC.

Where did hear about the 5ΒΊ advanced? I guess if you are positive the dots are lined up, and that's what it turns out to be, it's self-evident. But I can never be sure where them damn dots end up after I've slid everything together.....
What we are shooting for is that the valve overlap interval is to cross over TDC on the overlap stroke. But if the cam is set with the dot at 6:00 and the crank pin is straight up then from my experience, the exact point where both valves are cracked open a slight amount (the same amount level across the rocker arms) is slightly before TDC and not exactly on TDC.

This over lap is the period where booth valves are open a little bit even though one may be open more than the other. This band actually covers some 25 degrees? It will vary by your valve clearance settings. You can see the range of it by blowing in the exhaust with the carb open and observing the air coming out the carb during the overlap period.

The Saito has more teeth on the cam gear than the Y-S, OS, Magnum, ASP, SC etc so one tooth off may be hard to figure out? On the other engines, you can pull the cam cover off and see where the cam is.

I had a ASP 120 that would only turn a 15 X 6 good. It was sick with a 15 X 8. I looked at the cam and it was one tooth advanced. I set the cam back one tooth and that engine screams with a 15 X 8. Saitos are not so drastic being 1 tooth off and will still run pretty good but they run best when set correctly.

The way the logic goes, if you are advanced one tooth, the idle is great but you loose the ability to swing an inch of prop.

If you are retarded one tooth, the top end is great but it will not idle worth a toot.


I have to admit, I am more confused now than ever. But, it seems that you are doing exactly the same thing as I am doing. The timing where both valves are open the exact same amount is, in fact, TDC. It seems to work pretty well.
Old 07-30-2010, 08:08 AM
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Good
Old 07-30-2010, 09:23 AM
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ORIGINAL: Cherokee Flyer

In answer to the turboheader question of: is it worth it? IMHO yes.

L.


Of course, Turboheader's by RC Specialties are worth it.

My unfortunate comment, made a while back when I was faced with buying 13 turboheaders at one time, just to update my inventory, was made from a financial perspective. No offense to Jim or his products was intended.


Ed Cregger
Old 07-30-2010, 09:41 AM
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I don't know what a ShowTime is but if its a prop hangin plane you're probably running a flat near zero pitch prop and over revving the 1.25.
Old 07-30-2010, 11:13 AM
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It is a showtime 90 is 4d plane from hanger 9 and I am running a 16x8 and the engine is no where near tacting out she is fat and happy. The plane sits for long times and the valve was getting stuck just like they said and I put little oil in the stem and the tube and worked the drive train and she is working fine. Thanks
Old 07-30-2010, 11:24 AM
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16x8 prop on Saito 125 and a Showtime? Certainly not over-revving. Perhaps over-loading?
Old 07-30-2010, 11:29 AM
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It would have a lot more vertical with a APC 17 X 4W or even a 16 X 6

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=HAN2800

Old 07-30-2010, 11:33 AM
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Just going by what the little book says that came with the motor. I have a 16x6 never tried it maybe this weekend I will give it a try. Thank you guys. Eric
Old 07-30-2010, 11:34 AM
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I now have 4 of the Saito 1.25 engines and only use the 17 x 4W, 16 x 4W, and 16 x 6. All run very well on this engine and have goobs of pulling power.
Old 07-30-2010, 11:35 AM
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http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=HAN2800
Old 07-30-2010, 01:01 PM
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Good job, you didn't go overboard on the flat prop thing.
Old 07-30-2010, 03:24 PM
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hey that small set screw that hold the cam shaft in can you screw that in all the way to hold the cam in place whicl you set it?
Old 07-30-2010, 04:51 PM
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ORIGINAL: airraptor

hey that small set screw that hold the cam shaft in can you screw that in all the way to hold the cam in place whicl you set it?
The screw you reference holds the cam pivot shaft in position and is normally screwed down tight. It will not lock the cam in one place

Old 07-30-2010, 05:56 PM
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ok thanks just wondering. that would be good if it did for us guys that want to tinker some maybe i will mod it to do that then. i think i am one tooth off. On the refrerence prop only get 8,400 on 15% normally i get 9,300. it would idle at 1,200 though lol
Old 07-30-2010, 06:32 PM
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Tell about your trials as you experience them
Old 07-30-2010, 07:40 PM
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ORIGINAL: airraptor

ok thanks just wondering. that would be good if it did for us guys that want to tinker some maybe i will mod it to do that then. i think i am one tooth off. On the refrerence prop only get 8,400 on 15% normally i get 9,300. it would idle at 1,200 though lol
In the Club Saito threads there are several methods described about how to hold the cam gear in position while the gear set is lowered onto the crank gear. Some use an Exacto blade, some use a drill in a hole on some engines, and some use a piece of plastic such as a credit card with a "U" cut out that slips between the gears right at the housing line. One case had a Saito owner whose exhaust cam had come loose from the cam gear; this could have been an opportunity to experiment with different cam timing between the intake and exhaust valves. You could possibly make both the intake and exhaust cams adjustable with respect to the cam gear and experiment with different timings. Maybe even make that adjustment without pulling the cam housing from the crankcase.

As W8YE asked, keep us informed of your trials and results.

Sincerely,

Richard
Old 07-30-2010, 08:06 PM
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Need some information on fuel. I have always used PowerMaster 15% nitro, 18% oil (synthetic/castor) in all my Saito engines. These include .40A, .82A, 1.00, 1.25 x 3, 1.80, .90TS Twin, and 3.00 Twin. My last visit to my LHS it was suggested that I switch to Cool Power 25% nitro, 18% oil ( don't know if it is a blend or just synthetic or just castor). Any suggestions? Not sure what will happen going from 15% nitro to 25% nitro or why it was suggested. Is there anyone still selling PowerMaster? Are there other brands that might be better?

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