Jim,

sounds like you are right on target. At a touch under 21 ounces you have about 4 ounces left for TE, LE, tips and ailerons and chin. You might need 5 or 6 tops so your wing will be 25-26 ounces. Your sheeting might have been a tad heavy or perhaps a little too much glue. In any case, it is hard to build a 60 size classic with wings in the sub 22 ounces unless they are thin airfoil wings like in the more modern designs (e.g., Aurora, Beetle, etc.).

Remind me what you are planning to use for servos.

BTW, are the cores symmetric or did one core TE end up being different than the other? I had that problem with the GP cores I built of which I posted pics in this thread. I had to fix it prior to sheeting (about 80% fix) and then the remaining 20% afterward by sanding the wood to even thickness in each panel. My Tipo 10 cores were perfect. The wing was a snap to build - each panel just tracked the other like a mirror image - the beauty of good, exact cores.

David.

There were several incarnations of the Tiporare. At least 4 versions if not 5. As time passed they mostly grew in terms of wing area so they are often referred to as Txxx where the xxx is the number of squares to the wing.

In order:
[ul][*] Tipo 720 - the original classic[*] Tipo 750 (eventually also became the Illusion with appropriate fuse mods - this was moved by Dave Brown primarily I believe) [*] Tipo 825 - also known as the Hippo Tipo. It had a recess in the right side of the fuse for the pipe to use RE engines as shown in the pictures above.[*] Tipo 850 - not sure about this one but I believe there was a larger version yet than the HT and it didn't have the pipe tunnel recess.[*] Tipo 686 - known as the Tipo Surpass - designed for 4 stroke 90's with conventional gear. Aimed for the start of turnaround pattern. This model was 61" square.
[/ul]
With some luck, Mark (impaqtiq - another Tipo fan) or Dick Hanson will be able to confirm/clarify my response. This is off the top of my head and I've never owned a Tipo other than a T720.

David.

A change of mind. I spliced or laminated pieces together to get the proper size for the leading and trailing edges. They are now epoxied in place and rought trimmed to size. I ran out of energy sanding so I have quit for the day. Once I get them final sanded and shaped, less the leading edge radius I will weigh and report with a picture, one of each side.
Anybody have a great technique for sanding over epixied joints so that they look smooth ???????
Have a great holiday,
Jim

David,
The wings are in fact symmetrical. They just have a thicker air foil that that of the plans. As I posted earlier. The leading and trailing edges are laminated together and epoxied in place and rough shapes. I will try to shape them out tomorrow.
Jim

Well, the trick is really to avoid getting epoxy where you don't want it. Since the TE/LE stock is often taller than the wing TE/LE, it is best to apply the epoxy to the wing rather than the stock - this way you are only sanding balsa to airfoil as opposed to balsa and epoxy. Also, when you attache the wood, it helps to apply masking tape at the edge of the joint so that any epoxy overflows on to the tape rather than the sheeting. Once the wood is in place, you can run a finger with alcohol to remove any excess epoxy.

However, if you have a hardened epoxy joint at the foam/wood junction, run some tape on either side of the junction and with some 80 grit, cut the epoxy down making sure you don't gouge the wing sheeting or the TE/LE. It is actually not necessary to use epoxy on these joints so it is easier to sand them.

David.

This morning I managed to get the leading and trailing edge contours to match the wing airfoil. I used an old square exacto blade to cut the epoxy from the leading and trailing edge being careful not to get into the planking. It just took a lot of time but it is done.
I took pictures of both sides of the wings and will post them. The right wing weighs 12.00 ounces and the left wing weighs 12 3/4 ounces. At least the weights are comprable for a side mounted engine. The tips and the remaining parts are not included at this time.
I plan to build the remaining parts, Tips, trailing edges (outer and inner) tomorrow. I also plan on making the tips as hollow if I can and still maintain some strength.
After checking out the balsa stock that I bought for the aielarons, I find that it is not thick enough to create the parts. Since I do not have a REAL hobby shop nearby, it looks like another order for materials.
Happy Memeorial Day to all.
Jim

Jim,

I built an Escape from a set of cores and bulkheads I scored on the cheap.
I encountered the same problem with my ailerons. No in stock shaped wood was available in the needed size.
My solution was to laminate a set to the needed shape. I used wood glue, sands real nice.
I had to make them twice. If you do not weigh them down flat and let them dry for a couple of days they will WARP!!

Hope this might be a solution for you.

Nice job so far!!!!!

Tony

Tony, that is a great way to make control surfaces which are shaped and sanded to exact contour. As far as I'm concerned, the pre cut aileron stock is for the birds. I have yet to find a decent piece that is usable. Flat sheet stock on the other hand can be chosen to grain type and weight and if laminated properly (even with a piece of CF if you want along the TE) it will be straight and stay straight. I also tack 3/32" hardwood (spruce or mahogany of you can source it - really nice) along the center of the laminate along the TE which provides me with the guide to and the taper to. The mahogany basically doesn't sand or dent so it will last a long time.

Here's a link to post showing this for a wing I built for a Deception:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8340766

David.

P.S. It's too bad no one flies at your field! Oregon is just beautiful - lived and worked in Corvallis for a few years.

David,

Another method is to use 1/64 ply between balsa sheets to form a tough trailing edge.

Nice work on the Deception.

We have a beautiful flying site. Paved runway and pit area. Pond with dock, large club house, etc.
Post card perfect site.
We now have fewer than 75 members. Some fly odd days. Most don't fly.
I go out to fly and usually go back home never getting my planes out of the car because there is nobody there.
I won't fly alone, it's not smart or safe. So mostly I build. Enjoy it a lot. More than flying really.

So Jim, keep that project going!!!

Tony

Today I have manufactured the Aielerons and the two other trailing edge parts by splicing some wood together. I still have to final shape the back side to match the airfoil shape but the top is close to perfect. I have one side cut to length and fitted to the wing. The leading chamfers on the aielaron are yet to be shaped.
I just ran out of energy today and will continue tomorrow.

Latest status. The inner and outer trailing edges are now in place and blended to the airfoil. The aielerons are made and fitted for the opening. They need to have the control horn dowel installed and tapped for 4-40 thread. The leading edge of the aielerons need chamfering and the hinged to fit the wing.
The wing tips are made, hollowed out and installed on the wing. They are also faired or blended into the airfoil shape. They do need the radius formed at the ends as does the leading edge of the wing. The wings are not joined at this junction in the project.
Not too much more to report at this time. Still awaiting some parts.
Jim

Okay, now that I am position to finalize the wing before joining, is there something that is currently used as a sanding sealer? I notice that the wings and parts shown in some pictures have a slight orange/yellow hue. Is this something that is put on prior to final sanding or is it just the lighting?
I have a few dings and or dents to fill and sand flush but I think I am getting close.
Jim

How are you planning to finish the model Jim?

David.

I am planning on painting it all over with automotive polyurathane.
jim

Today I spent some time recovering from a 13 hour salt water fishing trip yesterday.
I procured some Minwax Polycrilic which I plan to use to glass the flight surfaces with .5 ounce fiberglass.
The leading edges of the wings has been shaped and matches from side to side in straightness and radii. The tips are next to be final shaped then on to joining and glassing the wing so I can put it aside for a while.
Jim

Jim,

A suggestion/recommendation. When you join the wings, first glass the center section to produce a rock solid center section. Other than the stub spars to support the core in the landing gear area, the Tipo has no cross panel spar so it is important to glass that center area well.

There are different school of thought on this but my preferred method is to use 2-3 layers of cloth in decreasing weight and increasing width. Basically, I join the panels with epoxy (30 min or slower) making sure they are dead level with each other. Before you join them, butt them up at the root and keep the wing tips level to the table. The sight down the wing from the front and back making sure one is not twisted with respect to the other. Parallax help here to sight them equally. If you are happy with the levelness, join them and don't worry too much if the roots are not perfectly matched. So long as they are within less than 1/16" difference, you can sand the joint smooth after the epoxy is cured.

Then, once the center section is sanded smooth, glass the center with 6 oz cloth spanning 3" wide. I use finishing resin for this step and here I do cut it with alcohol to thin it out - after all you're glassing not gluing. Once that is cured, you then can go out to the inner edge of the wheel wells with 2 oz or lighter cloth. I actually use a 2 ply of 3/4 oz cloth to give me a 1.5 oz weight so to speak.

When I do the glassing, I apply masking tape along the edge of where I want the glass to end. Then, once it has been wetted out, I wait for the epoxy to start setting up (about an hour or two - depends on climate) and then take a #11 blade and cut the glass being careful not to go into the sheeting along the inner masking tape line. If you do this at the right time, the masking tape will lift with the excess glass and leave a nice straight line along the edge which you can pat down with an alcohol wet finger to fair it into the wing. I sand all glass in between layers after curing.

This is really still wing construction and I typically leave "finishing" glassing until the model is complete and all radio equipment and engine has been installed. When you get to that stage, you can then proceed to glass the remaining wood on the wing with 0.5 cloth and polycrilic. I don't believe that the poly holds over epoxy so make sure you do a clean job on the center section. Before you glass the wood with poly, you do need to seal it first and sand it out. Good stuff is Minwax sanding sealer but you can also use Hobbico white wood filler watered down and brushed on - the former should be cheaper. Then once everything is sanded smooth and filled as needed (with automotive filler), you can prime the model.

In short, delay finishing glass work until the end.

David.

Well, the wings are joined and the center section will be glassed tomorrow. I have included a picture of where I am.
The leading radii is completed and the hinges are positioned in the trailing edge of the wing. The ailerons are now chamfered but the hinge holes are yet to be put in.
I will use the laminating epoxy for the fiberglassing of the center section and then I will built the front of the lower center section to match the lower part of the fuselage where the nose gear is. I will get the dowel in place for the front of the wing as well as the hold down screws. Not too sure I can get all of this done by tomorrow but that is the goal.
Jim

Jim,

looking good. What I like is that the wing appears to balance by sitting on its V-shape base at the wing center - this means you won't have to mess around with wing tips or lead ballast to laterally balance your model - it might be pretty close although the pipe on the right side will require a check.

On an all wood model I wouldn't mount the wing with 3 screws as shown on the plans (I believe), it is faster and more convenient to use 1/4" dowels (use 2) in the front and 2 screws in the back (1/4x20). Setting up the front screw as is required in the glass model is not something I would recommend if it can be done differently. In fact, I plan to see how best to use two dowels on the glass model as well (a second one). Of course, until your wing is squared up and fully mounted you can't add the wing LE chin.

I think you might also find it more convenient to install Robart hinge points when your wing TE and aileron LE are still square. You can draw center lines and drill exactly at that point. Drilling straight into a beveled edge is tricky at best. Tack glue the ailerons on to the wing once hinged and do a final sanding to airfoil. Then, you can pop them off and bevel the aileron LE.

The stabilizer will be the hardest to align; a 4 dimensional positioning is required. Take your time and only use spot CA glue when satisfied. If it still looks good the following day and maybe the next...[8D], then proceed to epoxy it in place and run your fillets along side. It is easier to align the stab with the fuse cutout a tad oversize and then wedged in with scrap balsa shims - they are later removed once the stab is properly held by epoxy.

I'm dispensing way too many suggestions/approaches Jim but it is merely in response to our different building styles - do as you would - I just provide my approach to offer an alternative view. I wish I was the receiver of more of that kind of commentary in my builds - helps to think "outside of the box", so to speak.

Keep up the good work, you are close to having a fully framed up Tipo!

David.

David, just getting back to revisiting this thread. My Tipo has a Rossi RE and pipe, although it could be an OPS RE. I need to get the photos you mentioned posted here.

The wings are now rough fitted to the fuselage, meaning that they are centered side to side and perpendicular to the rear of the fuselage. I have only marked the side of the wing with an ink pen for reference so that when I am ready I can get close to the correct position easier. I need to recheck the angle of incidence a couple of more times to get some confidence that what I have done is in fact where it should be. Can't be too cautious here.
The center section is glassed and sitting on the bench waiting to cure.
The ailerons are hinged and are put aside for later installation. I have not however put in the 4-40 threaded hole in the dowel for the aieleron horn. That will come later.
Kinda done for the day.

David,
Each and all of your comments are appreciated. I consider each comment positive. Keep them comming.
Jim

The wing is set into place with the proper incidence relative to the thrust line. (+.125 inches) and the two front dowels are installed such that they go through former "A". I have not tied down the trailing edge yet. That will come tomorrow. I have to install some dowels and flush them out along with a piece of light ply backing on the underside of the wing.
When the retracts get here I can start working on creating the front belly pan. I am thinking about making it removable for access to the retract.
Jim

Update:
The wings are now joined to the fuselage. I have attached a picture.
The next task is going to be to fabricate a removable cover for the front retract. This will allow me to access the tank without removing the wing and deal with any unforseen issues with the retract.
Jim

Nice work Jim!

Glad to see you decided to go with the front dowel approach - much cleaner and easier to just mount two bolts than 3 or 4. While it probably isn't required, it wouldn't hurt, for a little additional insurance to add a 1/8" ply doubler to the front of the former where the dowels go in. The laminate of the two pieces of ply, provides that extra bit of strength. I'd also add two pieces of 3/8" tristock on the side where the ply bonds to the fuse sides. Weight gain will be marginal. Some builders also like to encase their 1/4" hardwood dowels in aluminum tubes, this keeps the diameter constant and prevents them wearing down with fuel, elements over time. A nicer alternative, I think, is to use bamboo dowels - that stuff is rock solid and will last an eternity. Some Japanese kits used to come with bamboo.

One other suggestion would be to apply a second layer of glass (you're looking for 1.5 to 2 oz cloth) out to the edge of the wells. This should be roughly 6-8" wide if I recall correctly. This is structural glass since the wing joint has no strength other than for this glassing unlike other pattern wings which sometimes use flat cross panel full height spars. When you apply your finishing glass over the entire wing, that is really for paint prep and it doesn't contribute a great deal of strength to the joint although it does make the wing that much stiffer overall.

I look forward to seeing a frame up of the model - some bench flying is important! [8D]

David.

David,

yes, please do! A tipo with an OPS - cool!

It would be nice to see more details on the Hippo T850.

Time to bring out the wax...

David.

Today the horizontal stab was glassed with .5 ounce fiberglass using Minnwax Polycrylic. This is the first time I have used this material.
I also managed to fit the Rossi into the engine bay. The setback is good enough that the gap between the nose ring and the spinner backplate is good as it is. I did have to remove the carburator to get it into the opening. It is easily installed after the engine is mounted.
I plan to glass the wing tomorrow out to the wheel wells along with the aielerons, elevators and the rudder. Will post pictures when completed.
Jim