donniercjet,
Welcome - it's great to have another participant here.

You aren't kidding about the rudder size! It looks like you've added just about as much area as I have, but shaped the trailing edge differently.

I'm intrigued by your retract setup. That's a very creative way to accommodate retracts with a taildragger. I'm curious about one thing. It looks like the incidence of the "chin" portion of the wing looks to be higher than the rest of the wing. Are you concerned about having a different airfoil closer to the fuse and in the main prop stream than the rest of the wing and if there may be any flight characteristics associated with the change in wing design?

Otherwise, it looks like you've put a lot of careful thought and workmanship into being able to use retracts. I'm looking forward to seeing how things work out for you!
Ross

I made some significant progress on the wing today. I was able to get the internal center structure and bottom sheeting completed.

Pics #1-2 I changed the single wing pin to double pins due to the documented tendency to break the fuse from excess force at the center pin location. I did this by making an additional doubler that is epoxied to the front wing joiner, but drilled to accept the rear of the wing pins. The Leading edge was drilled with sharpened brass tubing in my hand drill. Once the pins were epoxied in place, I added additional lite ply half-ribs between the leading edge and the doubler and also epoxied to the pins.

Pic #3 The rear center rib was laminated and installed per the original plan.

Pic #4 Trailing edge sheeting installed

Pics #5-6 When getting ready to install the leading edge sheeting, I realized that there was nothing to support the center joint with the change in wing pin location, so I installed the lower half of the original pin support rib to provide a structural gluing surface for the sheeting. Then I was able to start by gluing the front edge of the sheeting. I've had very good luck by doing the leading edge sheeting in two steps. First glue the sheeting to the leading edge and secure it with masking tape - just like edge gluing sheets for larger areas. Then once that has cured, the sheeting is glued over the ribs and clamped to the spar.

Pic #7 The last of the bottom sheeting installed and drying for the night.

Next step: cap strips, wing tips, and finish sanding...

i don't think it will have that much effect on the pitch of the aircraft. the wheel well chins are only 3 1/4 inches and the l.e. are 1/4" offset. compared to the rest of the wing area, thats not much. the only thing i am concerned about is that it may have a ballooning effect[X(] from what i have read so far the tiger allready has this problem. i can guarantee we will find out though!! LOL

krossk,can you take a pic of your spar for me?? i am courious on the finished product. i will put a pic of my tree trunk here shortly...

If the T60 flies anything like my T2 did, I wouldn't expect ballooning to be a problem. Even as a taildragger, mine always settled in quite nicely and was a piece of cake to land - even easier than my Avistar as both a trike and taildragger.

What are you looking to see? I've built mine per plans with the exception of the closer rib spacing, which allowed me to span the shear webs tightly between the ribs and the full height between the sheeting. I should be able to get a pic posted tomorrow evening - I've already closed up shop for tonight...

o.k. here is a couple of pics of my spar. its really hard to see though. my air lines are running through it. its 1/4" 5ply and its 11" on each wing panel. 22" long overall. in essence a tree trunk...

Kross, I will have to agree with the smooth landing of the tiger 2. Mine settles in and almost glues itself to the ground the only problem I have is a very springy main gear so if I come in even a little hard it will bounce me up just a little.

Quick question on my tiger 60 build, I am going to build a framed up elevator instead of those balsa blocks. Do you think I sould add an extra 1/2- 3/4 inch of TE material to the rudder and elevator?

Also I wanted to clip one bay off each side of the wing. Can I just clip the first bay off each side and adjust my sheeting, or do I have to do what you did Kross?

From what I've read, I'm not sure 1/2-3/4" will make much of a noticable difference on the rudder. Typically, rudder mods on the Tigers are more like 1-1/2 to 2". The elevator might make a difference with 1/2-3/4", but I can't speak to how much yet. If you've been following my build, I effectively added area to my elevator by moving the hinge line forward and eliminating the trailing edge tips from the stab.

If you are just going to eliminate a bay, do it from the outboard end, not the middle. You need to keep the inner rib spacing so there is something to glue the outer edge center sheeting to. I did mine the way I did because I was concerned about maintaining the strength of the wing as I intend to use this plane as a pattern trainer, so the wing will more than likely be stressed beyond the loads incurred by average sport flying. Also, if shortening the wing you might want to consider moving the aileron servo mount inward to keep the linkage close to the center of the aileron.

Been a while since any real progress has been made - work, family, etc.

Pics 1-2 Servo mounts and cap strips installed and wing rough sanded.

Pic 3 Center trailing edge installed. I trimmed 1.5" off the outer ends of the t/e strip to increase the overall length of the ailerons. I also encountered the same problems that others have with the thickness of the wing t/e after the sheeting is installed. I ended up sheeting the t/e pieces with the leftover shear web stock from the kit (hence the stripes in the pieces). There was also a fair amount of sanding required on the wing t/e sheeting to reduce the thickness to match the aileron stock which was closer to the wing thickness than the inner t/e pieces.

Pic 4 Some of the initial fuse pieces laminated - firewall and both fuse sides with the doublers.

Looking good. Interesting coincidence that the same day you post about having to sheet your trailing edges, I was doing the same thing today. My ailerons are too thin to get by with sanding down the wing t.e. so I'm having to enlarge them as well. [:@]

Are you planning to use the 2.5" fiberglass tape that came in the kit for the wing center section? I'm torn between using the 2.5 or going with 4" to span the fuselage width.

Mine were marginal (within 1/32"). By the time I bevel the l/e of the ailerons and sand the t/e, the differential will not be significant, but the other t/e pieces were considerably thinner than the ailerons, so something additional needed to be added. I still haven't decided if I'm going to run the ailerons clear out to the end of the wing-tip or stop then just short and form the tip to the rear edge of the control surface. I'm leaning toward the latter, but that may change by the time I get there...
No, that was also something suggested in the modification article. I'll definitely be glassing the full width of the fuse.

I also started looking at the engine mount. My original thoughts were to side-mount it, but after seeing the cowl article posted in the other tiger thread, I may invert it completely. It could be a cleaner installation, but I'm not sure about exposing the engine to potential nose-over damage. (But then, I fly off grass, so it would probably be minimal if any should it actually happen. It would also definitely require lowering the fuel tank as well.

Is [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5121587/mpage_2/key_tiger%2Ccowl/tm.htm]this[/link] the one you are talking about? I had intended the same thing when I ordered the kit, but as I have the Deluxe with retracts, I soon found out there is not enough room between the nose gear mount and the top of the firewall to mount the engine sideways. So I have no choice but to go vertical with the engine. []

Speaking of wingtips, I'm changing the 45 degree bevel design to a round tip. I did some measuring with the balsa blocks in the kit and found there is enough basla to make a round tip with them.

Yep - that's the one - and the place I found it too!
I will have plenty-o-room as mine is going to be a tail-dragger.

I'm also going to do the same with the win tips. I had previously done that with my T2. There's more than enough wood in the kit supplied pieces. Unfortunately, one of mine has a pretty nasty split in it, so it will take some filling and gluing along the way. I'm also going to see if I can hollow out some excess material from the center of the wing tips. THere's no real benefit to having solid blocks out there slowing down the roll rate!

Hi Krosst , Donniercjet , beef

Hello Gentlemen

I ve been following this thread for a couple of weeks now , and it is most interresting . I like the difference between the two rudders .
Krossk is right , Donniercjet you have a very interresting idea for the retracts , makeing it a tail dragger with the retracts torward the front of the wing , great thougths

If I may , I would like to tell you about my Tiger 60 , although I must tell you now that I am not as airplane oriented as you guys are , I m more of the mechanic type , so if you would bare with me .

As you have read in the past , I m putting in an OS-90 SF , the engine is the same weight as the OS60 . I ve also added 1/4 inch ply to the fire wall to give it more strength I ve set up my retracts as per the instructions . The only other change that I have made is my nose gear streering is on a seperate sevo , mixed in by the transmitter on a toggel switch ( this was done so that I could learn how to mix with my radio ) on my 9 CAP . One other change that I have made is that I have put on flaps ( one sevo per flap ) . I know that reading this thread that it might be a mistake , but again this was done so that I can learn how to use them , but they will be very small flaps I ve also added nylon wing bolts , like the thread suggusted . I liked the idea of the two wing pins , it looks more solid . I ve also thought about the tail end and adding some more strength to it . I will add tri-stock to support the stab to the rudder and round it off so that it has a more of a stream line look , and it should add the support that you have been speaking of .

The airframe now has two coats of nitrate on it as it will be covered in Koveral and dope . I only have a few days left to make a dicicion on the rudder and the stabalizer , if I want to modify , as you gents have done , its not too late to make the changes . Fore sure you guys think that it is worth it . I ll never be a good acrobatic pilot , I just need to learn good orientation with my radio and plane

Sorry I cann t put in pictures I don t have the computer capibilaty ( but wish I did )

Great thread Krossk , thanks for letting me in


I think youre planes look great ( Krossk , Donniercjet )


Thanks

Michel ( Mike ) [8D]

Sorry for the delayed absence - I've been "deterred" by a necessary home-improvement project that is taking a bit longer than planned. Hopefully I'll be back on the build in another week or two. In the mean time, I'll have to rely on the rest of you to keep this thread from going dormant until I return to the building table. In the mean time I'll give everyone an opportunity to share an opinion:

I've been wavering between mounting the Saito .82 sideways or inverted. There's not much difference in the cowl construction. I'm leaning towards inverted, but I'm concerned about starting and tuning an inverted 4 stroke. And the thought of the head being more exposed in the event of a nose-over is a little worrisome. So let's hear it guys, any thoughts or advice?

Where will your carb sit relative to the tank with it inverted? I plan to mount my ST45 horizontal just to avoid this very problem.


Mark

Haven't gotten that far yet. But it is a good point to be considered. I've got a bit of latitude with the tank height though. There's plenty of room for adjustment inside the fuse.

my bench also has been dormant latly. work has me overloaded and my bench (shop) is my garage and it has no heat. the hi for the last couple of months has been like 8 degrees. i need to get busy cause i have kits lineing up.

mike,
if you dont plan on flyin areobatics i wouldn't worry about changing the rudder. if you want to do some mild areobatics change it accordingly. i plan on goin crazy once in the air. this is just my .02 cents worth though. hopefully someone else will chime in with other suggestions...

krossk,
my chipmunk has a 4 stroke inverted and i had to change my fuel tank height cause it was to high. it kept flooding the carb when i fueled up. after i changed it i have had no problems. as for the head or valve cover on a nose over, i don't worry about it. mine has a couple of scratches on it from the asfault runway, but in the grass it has no effect on it. the valve cover is really thick also. it would take years to grind through it. you could also put a skid plate if you are really concerned about it.

I finally made it back to the bench thanks to all the former presidents whom we so graciously honor with the day off work!

I got the engine mount drilled and located on the firewall for the inverted Saito. I'm using the kit provided engine mount It took a while to get it located properly so the prop shaft would still be centered with the 2 degrees right thrust factored in.

Once that was taken care of, it was on to the rest of the fuselage. The laser cut pieces are very clean, however The first thing I quickly discovered that since most of the larger fuse parts are cut with a router, none of the interior corners were square. Therefore, all of the notches for the interlocking tabs need to have the internal corners squared up so the mating tabs will seat properly. Until that is done, nothing fits worth a hoot. So I only got as far as the initial dry fit.

I just finished my Tiger 60, we had a few rainy days here, I have 15 flights so far, powered mine with a new TT PRO 61 Heli engine with a OS 40E Carb and Tuned Pipe turning a 13x4W APC at 16K on the ground (gives it a little snarl) it hovers below half throttle and verticle is out of sight, made the rudder larger+ elevator and 3D throws helps with hovering. It flies great and came out at 7lbs 8oz but I had to add 4oz in the nose to balance, I reinforced the rear fuse it looked weak and sanded (tapered) the tailfins down to reduce some weight, I bent the main gear back but it's still light on the nosewheel when low on fuel. All in all a great flier with no bad habits.

Kross, I have been very busy lately and haven't had much time for the Tiger 60 either. Here are some pics of mine taken a little while ago. I am using an OS.61 SF inverted and building a cowl. I didn't realize how much I took off the wing until I sat it next to my tiger2

I love the way it looks with the main gear still in the wings but moved in front of the main spar, warbird style.

What a wonderful thread. Made me remember the building i did when i made the Tiger 2.
It was such a nice plane, and i did so so many flights on it. I had a TT .46 PRO and it was a good combination.
I lost it in 2005 after a radio glitch. I also participated in competitions with it, and it was a successful flier.
I am now being inspired to build another .. and deciding on whther to build a 40 size or a 60 size ..

Love the thread.
-Gaurav

Thanks!
Nice looking Tiger that was - I know that feeling of loss all too well [sm=cry_smile.gif]
I liked my T2 so much that I just had to have another Tiger in the hangar. Overall, I thought the kit quality of the T2 was better than the T60. Actually, I would have loved to have the wing from the 60 and the fuse from the 2. But then I'm comparing a 12 year old 2 kit to a new 60 kit. In any case, I'm just glad to have another in the works.

Got back on track with the fuse construction today It had been sitting on the bench for a week with just tape and rubber bands keeping it together.

Pic 1: I got out the Adjust-O-Jig with the fuse attachment and set everything up to insure that the fuse is straight and square before gluing. I normally prefer to build with Tite-Bond wood glue, but the way that this fuse goes together almost mandates the use of CA. So I gave in and used CA to glue the fuse together.
Pic 2: The firewall was glued in using 30 min. epoxy and will get further reinforcement with tri-stock when the fuel tank compartment is sealed.
Pic 3: The framed up fuse with the main landing gear reinforcement plate drying. IT is also glued in with 30 min. epoxy.
The fuse cheeks have been removed in preparation for the built-up cowl.
Pic 4: The tail wheel is also attached with a reinforcement plate and 4-40 blind nuts.
Pic 5: Tail wheel test fit.
Pic 6: Main gear mounted. The gear is a set of glass-filled nylon mains from Carl Goldberg.
Pic 7: Framed fuse with landing gear and inverted engine mounted. The rear stab plate will get mounted when it is possible to set the stab incidence. At present, the plate sits lower than the fuse sides, so I want to insure that the stab mount is flat and at the appropriate incidence.