RC curtis, My t-60 is balanced at 4 1/4 inches from the LE. The plane is very stable and actually flies a bit nose heavy.
Alot of down elevator when inverted and also needs some power to land. I have a non deluxe kit converted to tail dragger.
with an OS 61 SF in it.

Kross I actually had a bad experience 2 weeks ago, my 6oz weight came loose from the nose and found its way all the way
to the tail. 6 attempts at landing and she finally landed with no damage. luckily I still had about 1 oz of fuel left.

I spoke too soon about minimal damage... I found that my firewall was cracked once I pulled the engine. So...I've got some creative repairs facing me!

Oh well...I've been here before!

I balanced with the retracts up. I've heard both ways, but my previous experience was with a P51, so nose wheel comments did not apply. I tend to agree with krossk about checking with gear up because of the worst case scenario & the nose gear.

I find that I no longer have my plywood trees for the firewall...and I pretty well destroyed the existing piece getting it out. By any chance can anybody make me a tracing of the 2 Deluxe kit firewall pieces...or would you consider cutting me a replacement set from your originals? Obviously this would probably have to be someone who has not yet finished building their T60! I would be more than willing to pay you for your trouble...just give me a price. The replacement part is only $3.00 from Goldberg, but with a 3 week lead time and $12.00 shipping.... Surely someone out there might be able to help?

As far as my engine is concerned...I've had it with that .91FX. I went out today and bought a new one! It just was not worth risking another plane (or rebuild) given the history that I've had with it. Main trouble was bubbles in the fuel line keeping it from holding a good idle. It would have to have such a high idle that I seriously doubted anything would land! The redesigned needle valve asembly (from the heli version) is what OS is delivering with that engine now...I had already replaced the *original* needle valve once and then finally got the redesigned needle valve, but I just plain didn't trust it anymore. Gave serious thought to the .75AX since it would bolt right in to the same engine mount.....but read about so many people using the .91 and having good luck that I decided to stick with it. Call me crazy....

I've still got the outer remains from the firewall ply in the standard kit. I can easily scan that and send it to you. But I don't know if it is the same as the deluxe kit or not.
If you want me to do that, PM me with an E-mail address and I'll get it sent in the next day or so.

Greetings

I went back to an old RC Canada thread that I taked about this very same subject and this is what I was told : YOU NEVER WANT TO MAKE A TAIL HEAVY AIRCRAFT, WEATHER IT BE , RETRACTS , FUEL , OR PAYLOAD . We can all agree that we don t want a tail heavy aircraft . With this in mind , our nose gear work from foreword too rear , wouldn t that move our C/G foreword , creating a more tail heavy craft ? All I want to do is get this straight , so that my airplane will fly in an controlable flight .

Thanks all for youre responce and thoughts .

cheers

Mike [8D]

(Assuming that the nose gear swings up towards the rear of the plane)
With the gear down the weight of the nose wheel is closer to the front. With it retracted, it moves the weight towards the rear. Thus the gear up is a more tail-heavy configuration than with the gear down.
Therefore the plane will only get "less tail-heavy" with the gear down.

PM sent...thanks!

Hi

Thanks Krosst , as you were saying : MOST , tail heavy configeration , GEAR-UP understood .

Mike [8D]

Hi
Rcurtis , is iy possible to get the weight of youre Tiger ?

Thanks

Mike[8D]

Well...I'm trying to do just that, but I don't have an accurate scale. By using standard bathroom scales & checking my weight & then holding the plane & taking the difference it is between 9.1 and 10 pounds...(my scales do not show in 1/10ths of a pound, so I am extrapolating the possible range given what I am calculating). Heavier than the published specs...but I would not think the weight would matter *that* much as long as it is within the normal CG range. Obviously, other things come into play with an overweight plane, but balance should NOT be one of them.

Given the fact that the plane was designed for a top end engine of .61 2 stroke, and I am using a .91 2 stroke, I felt like that should have somewhat compensated for the extra weight...maybe I'm wrong, though.

Hi Rcurtis
Thank you for youre reply . I reccon youre not far off that , mine weights 9lbs 14 oz . Like youreself I tend to build on the heavy side . I also looked for the weight from C. Goldberg , but they give the same weight as the regulare kit. Very typical of Goldberg . ( I am not happy with Goldberg nor with Robart , I believe that the regular kit is a better build than the Deluxe ) I have also put my C/G at 3 3/4 to do the maidain flight I will also will find out what the wing loading is . 10 LBS at 855 sq inchs of wing . I don t know how to do it , so I must get some help with this . I ve also added some weight in the front of the nose gear bay , to get the C/G were I wanted it . I will keep in touch with this form and let you know how it progress s ( or crashs )

Thanks for shareing


Mike [8D]

Greetings

Well I flew my Tiger for the first time and it went flawless . The only ajustment that was made is 2 clics on the rudder , that was it . It lifted off staight and true . Here are my specs

Carlgoldberg kit : Tiger 60 Deluxe with retracts
Wing area 855 sq in at 10LBS 10 OZ giveing 28-oz per sq foot
Flaps were included in the build , 7 inches long starting 1inch from the side of the fusealoge
Koveral and covered in dope
Painted with Sico 535
Engine OS-90-FX
Prop : APC 14x6
C of G 4 inch from leading edge with the retracts up
Tank 14-oz , we made 6x 8 minute flights

We did all the pattern manuvers except a knife edge ( which will be done to-morrow )

I m new to piloting and I don t know what kind of performance is expected out of this craft . Normaly I fly a Sig LT-40 with an OS 60 FX . It also is covered in Koveral and dope and weighs in at a whopping 9 LBS , it flys great and I can do most of the pattern moves with it .

When flying the Tiger I found that at high speed the rudder was almost ( not completly ) none exsistant , but on landings it was very opperative . the landings were very smooth and very controlled . I personally am very pleased with the build , and even the retracts did okay on the grass field that I fly at . The biggest difference was that the Tiger had less rudder control

The weight will drop slightly when I will move the C of G back to a more pattern setting at 4 3/ 4 inch . I have a good size piece of lead in the front underneath the engine ( I truely didn t want a tail heavy plane )

Cheers

Mike[8D]

Glad to hear your's went well! I finally finished the repair of my firewall (thanks to krossk sending me a scan of the firewall outline). Mine ended up at 9 lbs. 10 ounces. Since I am running the same engine you are (OS .91 FX) I was *very* pleased since I was afraid that I was way too heavy. Those box specs really had me nervous. I *know* they were for the standard kit....but I just didn't think that 10 lbs. would be the target range.

I'm still just a *bit* concerned about my CG... It is right at the 3-3/4" mark. Right on the line as far as what the specs say...but we've already proven the specs wrong on one point! Should I be concerned? Michel...where did you end up putting your receiver and battery? When I tried to maiden flight mine the first time, it was already "light" on the nose wheel...if I move the CG back any further I'm afraid I will not have any ground control!

Hi Rcurtis

If youre C of G is at 3 3 /4 from the leading edge , that means that you had to of added weight in the engine compartment , my reciever was in front of the rudder and elevater sevoes . Beside the reciver was the retract servo . In my setup I have done something that most people don t do , and that is I use a extra servo for my steering ( nose gear ) , on a mix with my rudder . SO , in front of my reciever and retract control , I have two servos . One for the thouddle and one for the nose gear . In front of that I have my battery pack , dirrectly behind former A above the leading edge of the wing which is held in place by the tank and by the frames of the servos for the throuddle and nose gear

You will have no problems if you C of G is at 3 3/4 inchs from the leading edge , this does mean that you have to add weight underneath the engine , above the nosegear bay

By the way , don t forget to make , flat spots , on the wire struts where they are held in place by the setscrews .

My plane was heavy because I had 3 extra sevos , was finished in dope and its only my second plane ( I m learning )

The plane landed like a floater even at 10 LBS 10 OZ

Cheers

Mike [8D]

Why do you say that? If I add weight to the nose that will shift the CG farther forward and out of the recommended range. It will make the plane balance closer to the nose, in other words.

BTW, you did exactly what I did...I always add a second servo just for steering when possible. I prefer to have steering physically and electrically separated from the rudder!

Michel, one of the biggest problems with the tiger 60 or the tiger 2 for that matter is knife edge.
the fuselage doesn't have enough side area to produce lift, alot of people enlarge the rudder
and elevator surfaces on the plane, which will help it to snap better, and give more rudder aulthority.
but with the lack of side area the plane will not do a good knife. A few of the national level pattern
pilots in my club have modified tigers with larger sided fuselages and made the nose longer along
with building the plane with foam cored wings and everything else from balsa. Now those tigers are
100% pattern ships and can fly the Masters schedule very nice with the right pilot.

I also am discouraged by goldberg as my kit came out at 8lb (regular T-60) and I made every attempt
to lighten the tail and it still came out tail heavy. However the plane with a .61 can fly the sportsman
schedule excellent and with a .91 can fly the intermedaite schedule quite well.

Thought I would share what I finally ended up with....

Very Nice!
Glad to hear the repair was successful and I hope the (re)maiden goes as nice as it looks!

Hey mike, do you have any pics of your setup ie. flaps, steering servo. Thanks.

Hi Rmills111
Welcome to the thread . No can do , my computer isn t capable . Hopefully in the near future I will have this capibility . The best that I can tell you to do is is look at post # 113 . Sure wish that I could show you my craft

Mike [8D]

Hi

I thought I would do a small update on how my Tiger-90 is in flight .

As you are all awear my Tiger is very heavy at 10-LBS 8-OZ ,very heavy . With the C of G at 4 inch . Its very snappy on spins , the OS-90 has its job cut out for it , but it handls it very well . It flys straight and true , all the basic acrobatics are easy . Landings are special , if any of you have landed a Mustang P-51 or other war bird , its exactly like that , fast and with a very high idle ( pending the wind speed ) it lands like a lamb on cotton , but if you use any elevater without giving it gas . youre asking it and forcing it into snapp and it will dive into a stall and test if gravaty wiorks . And believe me when I tell you that my plane has some BAAAD habits It flys and thats all that I care . Its my second build . my next build , I will be working on lightness

I m hopeing to hear what you fellas have come out with and the flying style of youre planes


HAPPY FLYING


Cheers

Mike [8D]

Michel, I had the same problems with my tiger. As I said I am at 8lbs, But with a wingspan of only 58"
I have removed alot of the gentle glide that the tiger is known for. I had my CG set at 4 1/4 inches
for the first few flights and the plane landed like yours. I now have 4 5/8 and the plane seems to
land a little (not alot) gentler as I can lift the nose a little instead of coming in fast and level.

As for flying style it flys alot like my 2 meter pattern plane. point and shoot rolls are nice
and the plane is very neutral in the air. I set the plane up with pattern throws 14 degrees
aileron up and down, 15 degrees elevator up and down and all the rudder I can get. The plane
is predictable and comfortable in the air. and after a few deadstick landings I found that I can
glide it in as long as I stay very easy on the elevator and keep some airspeed.

Hi Overbored77

Thats a good discription of how my plane is . I must whatch the elevater when comeing in for a landing . My air speed is very important, I must keep it up. Althought it lands really smooth and takeoffs are like scale

I will move my Cof G back 1/2 inch and see how it goes .

Thanks for the info


Mike [8D]

Greeting All

I now have about 60 plus flights on my Tiger 60 . With the OS 90fx , it moves about the sky with lots of speed and goes vertical quite well . If I had anything to say that doesn t work well , I would have to say that it is the retracts . The wire thing just isn t a good idea , I would much more prefer struts , and if I would of known so , I would have installed them , the 3/16 wire retracts are for the birds , Don t for get that my plane come out an amazing 10.5 LBS . I moved the C-G back 1/2 inch and it helped a lot . I hope that you felles are injoying youre Tiger as much as I am . This has been an excellant thread .

Thanks all


Happy flying


Mike [8D]

Well, for every intention I had of having mine done in time to enjoy this summer - I should probably resign myself to the simple fact that it takes me the better part of a year to build a plane. That's just a fact of my available time and the way I build. I have just about everything done and to the point where I can start covering. But first the shop needs a MAJOR cleaning. I'll probably just enjoy the rest of the flying season and focus on covering over the winter. I've also been bitten by the heli-bug, so my hobby time and funds are being spread even thinner. I'll keep posting progress reports as things happen. Thanks again to all who have been and will be following along!

I started building my Tiger 60 about 1 1/2 months ago, after crashing my Tiger II. I'm almost to the point of being able to start covering. I've cut 1/2" off the dihedral on both wing tips. I've widened the ailerons, and I'm widening the elevator and rudder. I have a Tower .75 I was going to put into my TF GE Corsair, but have decided to use it for the Tiger and I'm going to electrify the Corsair. Here's a couple of photos.



--
Tom