kbear

Well, I just got and email from Steve, and the short kit and plans will be $80 shipped. The check goes in the mail tomorrow. This will be my first kit build in over 5 years, and only my second balsa build. My first plane and build was a Spirit 2 meter sail plane. Since then, I have been building and flying SPADs for the fun of designing and building my own designs, as well as experimenting with changes on other's designs. I've always wanted a Hots and this one looks like it will be fun. I've also been itching to build with wood again, so here we go. Now I just have to wait for the kit, then I have to find a balsa supplier. I was going to use Lone Star as they are just across the Metroplex, but they burned down recently. The only other supplier I know of is BUSA. Any Ideas on other suppliers? Most of what I can find locally is very soft and doesn't seem strong. What am I looking for in the way of qualities for good balsa? I'm going to have lot's of questions I'm sure, but I'm equally sure I'm in the right place. I'm fairly confident in my building skills, but am always open to help. Any tips while I wait would be greatly appreciated.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

There is/was A wood supply place in Calif. but I thought it's name was BUSA too but two different companys. I ordered from them once then used no one but Lone Star over the years. Mid West still sells wood and I can even get it at Michale's craft stores but it cost A bunch and I have found it to be heavy. Most LHS carry wood too but it seems to be from Mid West too and the prices keep me away. My next scratch build is the Giant HOTs but other planes keep getting in the way but I will be looking for A new wood supplier myself soon.

mmattockx

Dynamic Balsa:

http://www.dbalsa.com/

Mark

kdc

Are you building the 48 inch Hot Hots from the Jan 2002 RCM (plan 1305 ) ?

There is another Hots section in rcuniverse Sport Flying. Some of the builders of different Hots types commented that they added a ply doubler from engine bulkhead to the wing seat. Are you going to add a ply doubler?

kbear

kdc, I'm building the newest version. It was in the May 2007 MAN. I'm going glow with mine, but Steve Santich's is electric. I haven't seen much on it, but if it flies the way Steve says it will, It should be just what I'm looking for.

mmattockx, thanks for the link, I'll check them out.

Gray Beard, The Balsa around here is Mid West. Most of it is very soft, and like you said, the price is high. I use it sometimes when I'm making test gliders. I will check my LHS once the plans get here and I have a wood list, but I can't imagine it being cheaper unless the list is small and it comes in less than with shipping.

kbear

Well I finally got the check in the mail and have received my plans and short kit. I waited until I got the kit to make an order for other needed supplies. This forces me to study the plans well before I start the build and allows me to make sure I order everything I need at once. The other supplies should be here the middle of next week. My kit arrived with no damage and the laser cutting is very good. I am missing two part and will contact Steve about them. There was a separate set of some parts meant for use if you go electric. They appear to have been cut by hand using the laser cut parts as templates. I say this because they have no burn mark and the laser cut pieces had been removed from their sheets and replaced. The difference in the parts is the thickness of the sheet stock (3/32" for glow, 1/16" for electric). I thought this was a nice touch. This is not a beginners kit by any means and I would suggest you have a few builds under your belt before trying it or have an experienced builder on hand for help. So far I have only found one area that I'm not sure of. I will post pics of the problem area and let you guys see it after I contact Steve. Here is a pic of plans and kit parts.


[link=http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7352144][/link]

Click the picture for a larger image.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Are those all the parts you got in the kit plus the plans??? Just wondering. I got ahold of the old Mid West Hots kit and built that last year and love the plane. The kit comes out A bit on the heavy side compared to the plans built plane but that was because they made some changes to the design. All the Mid West wood I have found has been on the hard and heavy side so I don't use it very often. I always got my wood from Lone Star and was able to pick the grades. I have the plans for the Giant 91 inch Hots but other planes keep getting in the way of the build.

kbear

Those are the parts. Basically, anything that needs to be cut a specific shape. He also included the LE stock and all the hard wood rails. the pieces that are fanned out on the right are the 1/16" rear sheeting meant for the Electric version. The parts count low, I over ordered on the other balsa so I would be able to pick and choose the wood. I ordered $27 worth of balsa and will probably only use 1/2 to 2/3 of it on this plane.


Here's a pic of the LE stock. Should be easy to shape.

[link=http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7356819][/link]

kbear

Let me see what you guys think about this.

First question.

[link=http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7364227][/link]

The black arrows point to what seems to be a piece of the vertical stab structure.

[link=http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7364221][/link]

This photo shows the sheeting in it's place. It would seem that this piece is captured by the sheeting along with another piece of 1/4" square balsa for hinge support. The next photo is a top view of the same area. It does not show this to be true. The bottom sheeting (no photo) is about 5/8" wide at this end, not pointed as it would be for the top view. It makes more since to me that the side view interpretation is correct. What do you guys think?

[link=http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7364224][/link]


Second question.

[link=http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7364223][/link]

The elevator seems to be one piece with an uninterrupted leading edge. The red arrow from the earlier photo shows this lining up with the piece from the VS in the earlier question. If I cut a hole hear for the elevator LE to move in, I would have to cut it through the VS piece. If I do that, I don't see what would be holding the VS in place other than the top sheeting. The VS does not show a piece were it meets the Horizontal Stab. It seem that I could add one and then it would be glued to the HS as well as the top sheeting. I know I can work this out myself, but I thought maybe you guys might see something I am missing. Maybe I am misreading the plans.

kbear

Ok, here we go. With the MAN article in hand, I started the build. The article is sparse on details and there are no instructions with the plans, so study them well. Plan your next move several steps ahead and recheck you plan after each step to see if you next step will cause problem down the road.



Start by gluing the two front sheeting pieces together.



I glued the bottom stringers on tho the fuse sides and then pinned them to the plans. make sure to make a right and left side. After this, I glued in the formers and fire wall making sure they were perpendicular to the table.



Following the article, I shaped and glued the ends of the bottom stringers together.



Next add the top stringers. The laser cutting is very good and the 1/4" stock slides easily into the notches while still giving a tight fit.



Next I started adding some of the 1/4" support pieces where shown on the plans.



Add and trim the stringers to the nose.



I then took a 1/4" stick with some sticky back sand paper and opened the LG mount hole back to the former to get it to fit tight against the former. Steve says to use thin CA for everything. I decided to use epoxy for the next steps because the LG mounting system is a bit of a puzzle and you need a little working time to move things around.



Add the LG mount and side braces. Dry fit these first to make sure you have a good fit. The hole is over sized to allow you to get the pieces in place. I filled the extra space later with the balsa that is used for filler.



Back to the tail. Add the rear side sheeting and trim the top stringer, and add the 1/4" supports as shown on the plans.



At this point I took the opportunity to fuel proof some of the inside as I am going to use a glo engine.



The top front sheeting is twisted into place and has a bit of stress to it, so I added a few supports that are not on the plans.



Add the top front sheet shown. The article says to trim the top sheeting to fit.



Rather than trimming it , I sanded it as shown to get an overlapping joint.



Next comes the side pieces. After glueing them into place, I sanded them down.



The kit comes with two of the top sheets. Only one is called for, but I decided to add the second on top for a bit more strength and to have material for shaping.



Next add the supports and rear top sheeting.



Add the 1/4" sqr. balsa crutch. I made this piece a bit long so I could sand it to fit well when the VS is added.



Next comes the wing mount plate along with 1/2" of balsa for support.



The next support is hard to put in place accurately, so I added balsa supports just to make it easier to align.



Now to the belly pan. I added the sides. after that I cut the stringers almost all the way through (no photo). after adding the bottom sheeting, I cut the rest of the stringer away with a razor blade.



Now add the end formers to the belly pan. The rear former needs to be sanded as show to make a good fit. Rather than try to sand the front former to fit the wing LE, I have decided to cut a notch in the wing LE to accept the former. To finish the day , I put a first pass of putty and sanding on the fuse, and Fuel peoofed the inside of the top sheeting on the nose.

kbear

A few more photos.



The area below the upper LG mount is filled with balsa and sanded to match the fuse. Then the Lower LG mount is added. This is one of the pieces that was missing from the kit. I still have not got around to contacting Steve so I just made the part myself out of 1/8" birch ply.



Glued the nose former on and filled and sanded some gaps with balsa.



The tail group is standard stick building so I won't go into great detail. After test fitting the HS I did find an answer to my earlier question.



The HS sits far enough forward that is leaves a gap at the end. I decided to split the elevator halves and us a music wire joiner. What size Music wire should I use? I was thinking 1/8" in, but that seems a bit large. 3/32 doesn't seem strong enough. Help me out here. The elevators are pretty large and I don't want them to twist under load.



I added a base piece to the VS and glued it to the HS with a couple of support block. The whole assembly slid into the tail. I won't glue it in until I get the wing built so I can make sure it all lines up correctly. I extended the TE of the VS and will glue it to the tail when I mount it. Anyone have an opinion on my solution?



I have to mount the servo rails in the tail and finish the bottom sheeting. I won't sheet the nose until I get the engine mount on so I can still get to the back of the fire wall for the blind nuts. I ordered a 5060 Dave Brown mount as stated in the article, but the fire wall is actually drilled for a 4650 which is what I will use. If you want to see larger Photos you can find them [link=http://www.putfile.com/papabearspad/images/167765]Here[/link]

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

I went with two elevator servos in mine plus A pull/pull rudder with the cable running out the top of the fuse so the wires could attach as close to the center of the rudder as I could get. I do A lot of knife edge flying and that way I get very little flex of the rudder. I installed A YS 1.10 in mine {.60 size} so the added engine weight and the two servos in back helped out the CG.

kbear

Gray beard, thanks. The engine range on this version is supposed to be 40 -50. I haven't decided on the engine yet. If it looks like she'll be tail heave then I lean toward a 4 stroke. I want to get an Idea of what she is really going to weigh also. Been working on the wing. I get photos up later.

kbear

Ok, here's those Photos. The wing is a straightforward affair, so I didn't take as many photos. I'll comment on a few thinks that I either liked or think you should know if you ever build this plane.



The wing is built flat on the board as one piece. the spars are just behind the high point of the airfoil were it starts to go straight. This means you can lay them flat on the board with the spar pinned down. One note here, don't glue the TE stock on with the wing in this position. That will make it line up with the bottom side and angle up from the top, sort of reflexing it. Remove the wing from the board and then add the TE. Clear as Mud right?




I had to make the spars and TE out of two pieces, so I used a scarf joint that I placed at the two root ribs. I did not do this to the LE as there is a ply backer there for the wing dowels.



Here is that backer. The article has you cut the root ribs for the backer after you have finished the top sheeting. I would suggest doing it just after gluing the two ribs together. It would have been much easier that way and would not have interfered with the build.



I drilled the wing bolt hole were the laser engraved x was on the ply support on the wing TE and this is what I got. The wing support in the fuse is placed per plan. I would suggest that you move the support in the fuse forward a 1/4" or drill you hole in the wing a 1/4" back toward the TE.



My fix was to cut a piece of 1/8" ply as shown and glue on some 1/2" x 1/4" stock for filler. The ply was glued behind and spanning the original structure. I didn't like that the blind nut for the wing was going to bite into balsa anyway.



I used a Sullivan tail wheel assembly so had to do a mod there. I'm not sure it will hold up as is, so I may glass this area for strength. I also put the the main gear on and added the hard wood rails in the tail for the servos. I didn't use the placement shown on the plans. I moved the elevator servo back as far as it would go and moved the rudder on the other side just in front of it. With the elevator control rod below the surface, I wanted it as short a possible to avoid flex when pulling out of a dive. My normal habit is to have the elevator servo pull for up to avoid the problem, but in this case it was not possible. Finally I sheeted the bottom. I'll get a picture of the whole thing up next time. I have left to build the control surfaces and cut the hinge slots, then give it a good once over with putty and sand paper before covering. I may have to cut the nose off to get a glow engine on her. If I do, I won't be too sad as that is how the original Hot Hots was designed and it would allow me to turn the engine on it's side so the exhaust was under the wing.

kbear

Just for fun, Here are some pics of my daughters first build. AMA Cub.



She's been out in the shop with me gluing up thinks out of my scraps, so I gave her this to see if she liked it. I've been hoping she'd get interested in flying for ever now.

kbear

I'm getting closer. I've been working on the tail. As I was getting ready to mount the VS/HS. I ran into a bit of a problem. I was having trouble getting the alignment right. A quick sight down the tail of the plane, and much to my horror, it seemed to be off to one side. Further inspection and measuring revealed that the tail itself was not off, but the ridge at the top of the fuse was just a bit. Remember that this is only my second build. I was relieved that the entire plane was not off, but had to figure out how to mount the tail straight and true.



I cut off the sheeting as shown, and since I was in there, added a 1/4" balsa wedge to glue the tail feathers to. This makes the whole thing much stronger than it was going to be. In the second photo you can see just how off the ridge is. The only thing I can think to do different, is to glue the tail into place before adding the 1/4" crutch between the top sheeting. Some instructions would make this and easier build. Oh well, lesson learned.



I added new sheeting to the area and did some filling and sanding. Still have quit a bit more to do to make it just right.



I hinged the Control surfaces on the tail. I will wait until they are covered to glue them. While sanding the elevators, they felt too flimsy toward the outer tips , so I doubled the tips the way the rudder is done. They are nice and strong now. The only other mod was to us 1/2"x1/4" balsa were the connecting rod is for strength.



Before you say it, the ailerons are dead straight. The photo is off. I used 1/2"x1/4" balsa for the leading edge on these instead of the 1/4" square with backers for the hinges. This made for very twist resistant ailerons and with the servos so far inboard, that was a worry for me. I need some suggestions on covering. Do I cover each facet of the fuse separately, or should I try to cut larger pieces that wrap over the top and bottom to avoid seems? I've watch several very helpfully videos that have been suggested on other threads. Please help with answer on this one. You guys didn't seem to have much in the way of answers on my other questions. I very much a newbie at covering, so any help, tips, or tricks would be greatly appreciated. I know from reading the other treads that you guys are very helpful and knowledgeable.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

My Hots is the Mid West so my wing comes off and the canopy is attached to the wing. I covered my fuse in white and blue UltraCote. I used one sheet of white for the bottom and ran it up just past the mid point. Then because of the open bay fuse I ran one strip of blue along the top then sheeted both sides with seperate sheets then did the forward section the same way with the blue. I didn't try to really hide the seams but you really do have to look hard for them. The UltraCote goes around compounds and shrinks way better then Mono.

kbear

Gray, thanks. I'm thinking that I will do very similar to that. I did run across a photo of yours in my research. I like the Navy scheme you got going there. My Idea is very similar to yours although not a military scheme. Thanks again for the help. I was starting to think I had done something to make everyone made or something.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Nope, everyone is happy with your build, just count the hits, I have been following several builds the last couple of months and not posting up, no reason to unless someone asks for help and you have an answer. Your build has been going along just fine and I have enjoyed watching someone building from the plans. I'm A plans builder but don't use A kit cutter.
The reason for mine done as an F-6-F was I only have one sort of A War Bird, A big bipe and it's hard to get in and out of my van. I felt left out because my friends were flying War Birds and the Hots reminded me of A Hell Cat but that was before I installed the engine and cowl, then it changed right back into A Hots. Too bad, it got covered as A War Bird.
Bipe Guy has some photos of his Hots shown in his build thread for his Sukhoi. It's like yours and the guy can really cover A plane well. Pull up his thread and take A look, nice guy and I'm sure he would walk you through A covering job on the Hots. He covers better then most of the guys I have seen including myself and I cover pretty good, check him out.

kbear

Thanks. I 'm actually enjoying having to come up with answers on this build. A big part of why I fly SPADs is the chance to design and figure out how to do things. With SPADs it's not to hard on the budget if your latest design fails. Now that my knowledge of what makes a plane fly a certain way has increased, I've been wanting to try my hand at designing a balsa plane from scratch. I thought I'd start with a kit first to get a better feel for build techniques and I've always wanted a Hots. I'll check out BipGuy's thread as you suggested. I did a fairly decent job on my Spirit sail plane many many years ago, But have learned so much more just reading here that I wished I had known then.

kbear

Ok, I Started work on the covering. I started with the wing because I thought it would easiest. The bottom of the wing will have a neon red checker board pattern. The neon red is a very close match to the Hot Hots stickers that came with the kit. The top will get some sort of trim in white and red, but I haven't fully decided on what. The fuse will be done like the wing, white on bottom and purple on top. Very similar to Gray beards Navy hots. In one of the photos, I think you can see my Idea for the canopy and flames drawn on. I am going to tape tracing paper on the fuse and trace a pattern for the flames.



It's not perfect, but I'm quit happy with the attempt. I've heard of using a soldering iron to cut out the servo openings and may give that a try.

kbear

Forgot to mention, I decided to cut the nose of. I wanted the engine on it's side so the exhaust was under the plane. I also decided that I like the old school look of the blunted nose.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Soldering iron is the way to go, melts the covering and tacks it down at the same time. I have A couple of small battery operated irons i use for opening holes and hatches. I open the screw holes and everything with them.

kbear

I got the ailerons covered and hinged, and started the bottom checker board trim today.

kbear

Wing covering is done. I don't think I'll have any problems with orientation in the air on this one. I need to order some more covering as I underestimated the amount needed. I have enough to get the tail done. I may just run down to the LHS and see if they have some. I'm waiting for payday to order the flight pack. I plan on using a 6volt pack with HS-475HBs on the control surfaces and a standard servo for throttle. If the plane comes in between 5 - 5.5 lb, I'm going to use an SK 50 that I already have. If it's any heavier, I'm trying to decide between an OS 55AX or a Magnum 70 FS (both are $149). I currently have a 5lb fun fly that has an SK 50 on it and I never get above half throttle with it, so if the weight is right I'd like to use that engine to keep it light.