I got my Integral flying this past Sunday, June 15th. I received the kit (white version from Comp ARF http://www.composite-arf.com.hk/ ) on June 5th after ordering it a week before from Jason. I am in the Eastern part of Canada and I was tracking it on the UPS website. It arrive the day that UPS said it would.

That plane replaces my Twister that crashed 4 weeks ago due to a TX battery failure so the first few flights, I was still a bit nervous. It went well and after 2 trim flights, I tried P09 to get an idea of the differences with the Twister. I also tried the knife edge loop. It feels very similar but I had not flown a lot in the last few weeks. I think that it won’t need much trimming to get it right.

Equipment :
Motor: Plettenberg Extra 30-10 Evo ( http://www.icare-rc.com/plettenberg_xtra30evo.htm )
ESC: Schulze fut-32.80KA, F3A version with proportional brake ( http://www.icare-rc.com/motor_contro...ss.htm#Schulze )
Battery: 2 x 5S5300mha Thunder Power ( http://thunderpowerrc.com/html/prolites.html )
Landing Gear: Twister from ZN Line (40g lighter than the original from Comp ARF http://www.znline.com/ )
Receiver: Spektrum AR7000 ( http://www.spektrumrc.com/Products/D...ProdID=SPM6070 )
RX battery: 2 x 480mha Thunder Power with 2 Radio South regulator ( http://www.radiosouthrc.com/safe_switch.htm )
Elevator servos: JR3421SA ( http://www.jrradios.com/Products/Def...A&tag=hqls4029 )
Aileron servos: JR8411 modified with 8231 nylon gears except the output shaft to make them like 8411SA ( http://www.jrradios.com/Products/Def...A&tag=hqls4022 )
Rudder servo: Futaba S9155 ( http://www.futaba-rc.com/servos/digitalservos.html )
Total weight: 4915g
CG: approx 1/2in in front of the front edge of the tube or about 285mm in front of the trailing edge.

Comments on the kit & build:

This was the first composite airplane that I build myself and the first pattern plane that I build alone. It went very well thanks to the good quality of the kit and info from this thread and personal emails. Since I was a bit on a rush, I followed the instructions for the most part.

The main thing I did differently is the down trust. Following Chad’s recommendation, to follow Brian’s trimming procedure, I took some of the down trust out when installing the firewall. I shimmed the rest out. For now, I have the stab and the motor parallel (0 deg) and the wing is just under 1deg from what I could measure with Robart incidence meters. I may try a different measurement technique later.

As mentioned above, I used the landing gear from the Twister. It saved 80g total. I also used aluminum wheel axles from NB Engineering in place of the 4mm screws of the kit to save weight. I used 4-40 screws in place of the 3mm screws to attach the gear to the fuse.

The white finish seems to be only a primer. It’s very sensitive to Acetone and even alcohol and dirty fingers.

The instructions mention a blob of epoxy/micoballoons on the sleeve in the stab for the securing screw but I haven’t found it. I don’t think it will come off anyway with the screw going only thru the sleeve. I inserted a balsa piece inside the tube with a piece of nyrod in the balsa for the screw.

I used the JR's 3421 in the stab because the Futaba S9650 I planned to use didn't fit well in the molded recess.

There was nothing inside the bottom of the rudder to link the tail wheel so I cut an opening in the front of the rudder to insert a piece of balsa and glue it in place with polyurethane glue. The place for the tail wheel on the fuselage doesn’t have the proper offset with the bottom of the rudder for an MK tail wheel. A shim was needed to make it fit right.

The wood insert for the horn in the elevators and ailerons could be located more inboard (more in line with the servos) so the horns could be located in the middle and not need a long servo arm. Using a long servo arm means that the servo travel need to be less than 100% to achieve the proper throws. Knowing that in advance, I would have located the horn a bit closer to the servos (not in the middle of the inserts). I was expecting the throws to be fine with the long arm since the hinge line is on the top skin but there is still too much throw. Using a shorter arm would make the linkage not in line with the surface horn. If they were horns with ball links, I would not mind but with the phenolic horns that need to have clevis, the link must be in line. I may change to the ball link horn later if I really don’t like it.

I mentioned the above 2 items to Jason and he said that it should be fixed in the kits coming in near future.

As expected, the cowl and canopy installation were the part needing the most thinking. I looked at many pictures and in the end I used some of the hooks provided for the canopy. I got something light, that wasn’t too difficult to do, and it seems to works well. We’ll see if I loose the canopy in flight…

I added a small shim on the root rib where the securing stud is located to avoid deforming the fuse as recommended earlier in this thread by Jason.

Once this one is trimmed, don’t be surprise if I order another one for backup. I think that a second one could be build over a weekend. I may also do the adjuster mod like Chad at one point.

Xavier

Pictures of the build:
http://picasaweb.google.com/xavier.m...ey=fLx74oBd4gM

Hi Xavier,

I am just putting my new one together and can confirm that the location of the hardpoints has moved more inward by about 10mm I would guess.

Has anyone tried Jason's latest setup on Integral? What prop do you use with the YS engines on that plane, 17 or 18 inch? I wll fly it on 17x12 but I am thinking of trying the 18 ones. Any suggestions?

Mine is almost ready, picture flood to come soon with canopy, belly fastenings etc.

Regards,

Nikos

As promised some pics...

More...

More...

I reported in an earlier post that my stab was off at the tip about 3 mm relative to the wing on one side, and in an even earlier post I reported that the first Integral that I had didn't track well, and that it would never come out straight from any maneouver where I pushed or pulled.

Well, I figured out what the problem was. It turns out that on my first Integral the stab tube was loose in the the tube that's embedded in the rear of the fuselage, so what I did was use some CA and CA kicker to build up the edges of the tube in the fuse bit by bit until the stab was nice and tight, and also properly aligned with the wing, and it fixed the problem entirely.

On my second integral, the stab tube was tight, but it was misaligned with the wing. What I found was that what was making it tight was epoxy that had squeezed out when the tube was glued into the fuse, creating a little lip on each side that was holding the stab tube in place. I took a tapered reamer, and removed this lip on both sides, which made the stab tube loose like on my first Integral. Then I used the same trick with CA to tighten it back up, but this time aligned with the wing, and everything worked fine.

So, if anyone else has the same problems, either with a loose stab, or with a misaligned stab, they can use they same tricks to fix it. Just make sure you use the CA kicker before you put the stab tube back in the fuse, because if the CA hasn't cured properly, you run the risk of CAing your stab tube into the fuse.

Here are a few shots I took today of the new Integral. No decals on it yet (no time), but will be all done up before the Nats

Flies excellent, I will post some setup information tomorrow or Tuesday.

I like that plane. That's a nice looking plane. I'd like to have one of those planes.

Hi again,

Just to let you know my model came at 4.525gr with everything on except wheel pants. I am using the Hyde ARIA mount which is a bit heavy. If I used separate nose ring I could be below 4.500gr. The model gained also weight from the extra carbon cloth I put on the firewall, plus the modifiations made in the ail srurfaces (ply boxes) for being able to install short servo arms. My wing incidences seem ok, they have about 0.125 degrees difference. The stabs are 0.25 degrees negative to the wings.

Now back to my original question, props for YS 160 and 170DZ.

Please provide your feedback about this plane with APC 17x12, 18.1x10, 18.1x10W and 18.1x11. I run CP 30% Heli mix, I will start with 17x12 but I am curious about your tests with the 18.1 range props. I will use more diameter in calm and cooler days, for other circumstances such as windy days and hot weather I believe the 17x12 will do.

Please provide expected RPMs if possible with both engines.

Thanks in advance,
Nikos

Hi Nickolas

Stephane Carrier uses APC 18,1x11 with 170 DZ on his Integral.
When he had the 160DZ, he used APC 17x12.
There is 25 % nitro in fuel (MECAFUEL).
Regards

I uses APC 18,1x11 on 170DZ on my plane Partner. (It is awesome)

Hi,

Thanks! Stephane uses the CDI engine, is that right? So I believe the performance of both engines might not be the same....??? Any opinions here?

Thanks,

Nikos

Nikos,

Here are a few things we've found here. My friends glow Integrals with both a 160 and 170 really like the speed with the 18.1x10 props. It is plenty fast enough when needed and the downlines are really slow. 30% CP with both. We've also found that my middle rate aileron works well with my low rate rudder and elevator for snaps and general flying. Nice looking Integral, keep us posted with your final set-up.

Chad,

You new Integral looks good... maybe we should make your scheme the new stock scheme...lol.

Must be that "Shulman Extra Light Purple" that makes it look so cool

HI Nickolas

Before using 170 cdi, Stéphane used "normal" 170 DZ with APC 18,1x11 and fuel with 25%nitro
Regards

Jason thanks for the answer,

My final setup regarding throws etc. is the one recommended by you, not the one in the manual- but the latest one. I will try this condition for snaps. [sm=thumbs_up.gif]

18.1x10 and 18.1x10W are already ordered and are in the post (Jason's rules[sm=49_49.gif], [sm=thumbs_up.gif]), also have a Mejzlic 18x10 that could also worth a try and is light.

Papaone thanks for your feedback, probably this prop is a bit heavy for Summer in Greece due to the high temp, I will probably give a try in winter.

Thanks again,

Nikos

Hi Brenner,
I had the same issue recently and found that the stab tube in my fuze had cracked which allowed stab to rock. I took off the rudder and used some zip ties to draw it back together then CA's the tube ogether again. All is good since this repair.

Airplane looks great, Chad. Which gear is that?

Thanks Ryan!

Gear is from Wistmodel, same as whats used on the Prestige. Its as light as ZN gear (95 grams/pair) but stiffer and less prone to delamination failures. Only problem is that its a little flimsy where the axle mounts, you would not want to turn hard on landing or I think you might break them!

What I really like is that the gear mounts across the entire bottom of the fuse, so you don't have that space between the gear halves, this makes the whole setup much stronger.

Hi Jason,

Here are some pics from the first flights of my Integral. It went fine, your throws were a bit big for me to fly precision I just reduced them a bit. Plane tracks beautifully, I have some rudder to elevator cross mixing, opposite elevator to left and right rudder this is about 8%. Also low throttle to down elevator mix 3%. Also I fly with a little bit right aileron trim something that I don't like to be honest, any cures here? My CG is about 18cm from LE, 45' half roll to inverted locks in very well with minimal down elevator. On inverted needs some push that I can live with.

Other than that the plane is a machine, I went through P09 at 3rd flight with no issues at all. Snaps are GREAT! I really like it! Rudder authority is insane, the plane has very strong rudder. Looking forward to fly it again.

Regards,
Nikos

Hi Nikos,

Great in-flight shots. Sounds like you are getting used to it and enjoying it. As for the right aileron, I have the same in mine. Since it's trimmed in the radio, for me it's ok. You can probably change the left wing and move the LE up a little to try and fix it.

Jason

I was at a contest in Chicago the other week, where I had the opportunity to talk with Rusty Dose. I was flying my new Integral for the first time, and Rusty reccomended that I try the APC 21X14 prop. Well I did, and I was very pleased with it, but one of the first things I noticed was that I was only drawing about 3000 mah out of my battery pack, and this was compared to when I flew the previous day with an APC 22X12, and pulled about 4000 mah out of the same pack.

At the time I noted the difference, but I thought that it was due to the difference in wind from the first day to the second day. This was because on the first day I was flying in quite a stiff wind with liberal application of full throttle in an attempt to get the plane to penetrate, whereas on the second day the wind was much less.

Anyhow, since then I've had a chance to fly this same prop in all different types of wind conditions, and I can report that when I'm flying my Integral with an APC 21X14 prop, I'm pulling from 2600 to 3300 mah out of my battery pack, as compared to 3600 to 4100 mah out when I was flying the APC 22X12. I'm flying the current AMA masters pattern with 23 manouveurs, which takes me a little under eight minutes to complete, and there appears to be no loss of power when flying the 21X14 prop as compared to the 22X12 prop.

Right now I'm flying with a 25C 4350 mah pack, and I'm only draining about 70% of the charge out of it. Which is great, because at this rate I don't notice any change in performance from the beginning of the flight to the end. Also, this pack is about five ounces less than a 25C 5000 mah pack.

This is my first electric pattern plane, and since I'm just getting back into pattern after a fifteen year layoff, this is my first real 2m pattern plane, so I'm fully prepared to have missed something obvious here. Have I been fooled by randomness? Has anyone else experienced anything similar?

By the way, now that I've had the chance to get some flights on my Integral, (about thirty ..) it's really starting to fly well. I'm using 2% of mix from throttle to down elevator, and 7% of mix from rudder to ailerons, and 6% of mix from rudder to elevator. I'm not carrying any trim in the ailerons, and very little up trim in the elevator. Also, my CG is about 10 mm back from the front edge of the wing tube, and right now I can't think of a single thing I'd want to improve. (except maybe that flatulent sound it makes when I do a snap roll...)

Brenner,

I like the results that you are getting from your setup. Could you tell me what are the specifications for your motor, ESC, and batteries?

Thanks,

Terry

Jason thanks for the answer. If the plane needs right ail trim, then without trim rolls to the left, if I raise the left LE than it will roll even more to the left. Isn't that correct?

Thanks and regards,
Nikos

You are correct... I thought you were refering to the TE...sorry fast reading...