Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
12-01-2007 | 12:28 PM
#227
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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
Rick,
You can run the Budd mount with the OS without any problems. I personally think the Hyde makes a MUCH better mount, but the Budd does work. Make sure you run a nose ring though. The Budd mount, no matter what anyone says, will not hold up overtime without the additional support of a nose ring....
Arch
You can run the Budd mount with the OS without any problems. I personally think the Hyde makes a MUCH better mount, but the Budd does work. Make sure you run a nose ring though. The Budd mount, no matter what anyone says, will not hold up overtime without the additional support of a nose ring....
Arch
12-01-2007 | 11:38 PM
#229
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From: Orange Park,
FL
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
When you bolt the motor on it will staighten up, the alum. beam is butt blued to the ply disc with epoxy and then bolted in place from the inside with a large round washer/spacer thing, looks kinda like a blind nut but not threaded and no spikes, it serves as a spacer to allow tightening of the screw without crushing the ply disc, some crushing does seem to happen and warps the ply a little causing the beem to lean, bolt it to the motor and let it sit a couple days to see if it hols its shape. Don't ask how I know what the inside of a hyde mnt. looks like.[&o] It may not hurt to give Meryle a call and ask what he thinks as the above is just my opinon.
12-02-2007 | 12:04 AM
#230
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From: Guilderland,
NY
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
I need to send the mount to Merle next week as he said he can send me the replacement mount.
Since one beam is off about a degree or 2, I am not sure how it is going to change the thrust lines when engine is mounted. Even the beams are off about a degree on total when I mount the engine (while 92 degree beam and the 90 degre beam produce about 91 degree on total) , that changes the 3 degree right and 1 degree down thrust easily to 4 degree right or 2 degree down thrust which may be problem on total.
So I thought, it is beter to get the replacement. But let me know if I am wrong in analysis. Got my 170DZ this morning from Central.
..Srikar
Since one beam is off about a degree or 2, I am not sure how it is going to change the thrust lines when engine is mounted. Even the beams are off about a degree on total when I mount the engine (while 92 degree beam and the 90 degre beam produce about 91 degree on total) , that changes the 3 degree right and 1 degree down thrust easily to 4 degree right or 2 degree down thrust which may be problem on total.
So I thought, it is beter to get the replacement. But let me know if I am wrong in analysis. Got my 170DZ this morning from Central.
..Srikar
12-11-2007 | 08:17 PM
#232
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
Hi Tony,
not really just to many irons in the fire I guess.
Oh, it's mostly been my wonderful real job, been doing too many all nighters at the office and working weekends the last month. I have done a lot more on the build thread VF3, I just need to crop pictures and do all the write ups. But I'll be back soon with more stuff. I am finishing the wings and stabs and I'll be going thru the alignment process next. I am still on track to be painting my two 3s in January. It's going to be crazy and weird going into 2008 with 4 planes (knock wood).
Good news is I am close to having 25 Black Magic Foamy kits ready to ship and just in time for Christmas. Please contact me if any one wants a kit.
not really just to many irons in the fire I guess.
Oh, it's mostly been my wonderful real job, been doing too many all nighters at the office and working weekends the last month. I have done a lot more on the build thread VF3, I just need to crop pictures and do all the write ups. But I'll be back soon with more stuff. I am finishing the wings and stabs and I'll be going thru the alignment process next. I am still on track to be painting my two 3s in January. It's going to be crazy and weird going into 2008 with 4 planes (knock wood).
Good news is I am close to having 25 Black Magic Foamy kits ready to ship and just in time for Christmas. Please contact me if any one wants a kit.
12-13-2007 | 12:34 PM
#233
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From: Woodstock, GA
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
yeah Dean, get with it! 
Just FYI for those out there that might be wondering...Melissa broke her leg Sunday night getting out of the van. She's in a cast, on crutches, you name it.
This means CAA is all me right now. So, things are taking longer than usual (and it has gotten long at times!).
That being said if you have anything on order with us, I fully expect to ship everything on my list by the end of next week. So thanks for your patience!
-Mike
Just FYI for those out there that might be wondering...Melissa broke her leg Sunday night getting out of the van. She's in a cast, on crutches, you name it.
This means CAA is all me right now. So, things are taking longer than usual (and it has gotten long at times!).
That being said if you have anything on order with us, I fully expect to ship everything on my list by the end of next week. So thanks for your patience!
-Mike
12-13-2007 | 04:29 PM
#236
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From: Woodstock, GA
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
Yeah yeah....
The good news is it is now officially building season for me, so I'll be contributing a lot to these threads over the next few months (well, good news or bad, however you take it...LOL)
-M
The good news is it is now officially building season for me, so I'll be contributing a lot to these threads over the next few months (well, good news or bad, however you take it...LOL)
-M
12-14-2007 | 11:02 AM
#239
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From: Woodstock, GA
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
Yep. I can usually ship the kit and composites in small enough boxes where the shipping is less than $100.00. ONE box big enough to fit the wing cores OR the lower foam belly, it jumps to $500.00+ with no garauntees that it will arrive in one piece. It's just not worth it to ship one kit at a time.
Canada is not THAT much more expensive to ship the cores, so I will do it. However I have had some recent issues with kits vaporizing as soon as they hit customs. That makes me insane.
-Mike
Canada is not THAT much more expensive to ship the cores, so I will do it. However I have had some recent issues with kits vaporizing as soon as they hit customs. That makes me insane.
-Mike
12-16-2007 | 07:00 PM
#240
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From: Guilderland,
NY
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
PPG Concept K-36 and other paints- Are these avilable only form radiosouth?? I tried to search the internet for dealers and some prices on K-36 and failed to find one. On RCU, I found from some other post that the K-36 is around $150/Gal?? In that case, $26 for 10oz at radiosouth may be way too expensive??
Any online sources/dealers of these primer/paints?? I may be interested in buying in bulk to paint not less than 3 to 4 planes.
Thanks
Srikar.
Any online sources/dealers of these primer/paints?? I may be interested in buying in bulk to paint not less than 3 to 4 planes.
Thanks
Srikar.
12-16-2007 | 08:14 PM
#241
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
Hey Srikar,
These paints are available almost everywhere at your local professional automotive paint store.
Find your local PPG Concept Automotive paint store. Many of these paint stores have the "Chromavision" color matching system which will match all solid and metallic monokote colors. The color matching is usually free.
My "Auto Color" store sells me half pints of DCC concept colors, some stores only do pints. You can get a quart of k-36 for around 40 bucks, along with all the clears, reducers and activators.
And best of all it's about one third to one half the price radio south charges. You can also use the "Omni" line of PPG paint at about 1/4 of the price of radio south dcc colors.
do a search for Auto Color in your local yellow pages - I am fairly sure they are nationwide.
These paints are available almost everywhere at your local professional automotive paint store.
Find your local PPG Concept Automotive paint store. Many of these paint stores have the "Chromavision" color matching system which will match all solid and metallic monokote colors. The color matching is usually free.
My "Auto Color" store sells me half pints of DCC concept colors, some stores only do pints. You can get a quart of k-36 for around 40 bucks, along with all the clears, reducers and activators.
And best of all it's about one third to one half the price radio south charges. You can also use the "Omni" line of PPG paint at about 1/4 of the price of radio south dcc colors.
do a search for Auto Color in your local yellow pages - I am fairly sure they are nationwide.
12-26-2007 | 01:13 AM
#242
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From: Guilderland,
NY
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
Thanks for the info Dean. I found some shops locally but the K-36 is not real cheap. I was not able to find a better price than $70 for a quart with hardner. I called up atleast 10 shops and it was ranging from 70 to 90. I will prime the VF3 in next few days and make it ready for the paint.
So it is time for new set of questions
I am thinking to make a small paint booth to paint VF3 with a good exhaust fan.
I am about to buy the equipment to paint the VF3. I have some questions since I am completely new to paint.
1. After the primer, for the colors, is the Eclipse BCS is good to paint the whole plane?? or I still need a HVLP Gun for the colors?
2. Since I live in Appt, I am looking for a very quite compressor. IF I need to buy only the Airbrush, then compressors may be quite but Any advise in choosing the compressor??
3. Which compressor If I need to buy a HVLP like SATA Minijet along with the Iwata Eclipse BCS ??
I like the color scheme on the Arch's plane and I may go with that or with the color scheme on prototype VF3 since it is simple.
So it is time for new set of questions
I am thinking to make a small paint booth to paint VF3 with a good exhaust fan.
I am about to buy the equipment to paint the VF3. I have some questions since I am completely new to paint.
1. After the primer, for the colors, is the Eclipse BCS is good to paint the whole plane?? or I still need a HVLP Gun for the colors?
2. Since I live in Appt, I am looking for a very quite compressor. IF I need to buy only the Airbrush, then compressors may be quite but Any advise in choosing the compressor??
3. Which compressor If I need to buy a HVLP like SATA Minijet along with the Iwata Eclipse BCS ??
I like the color scheme on the Arch's plane and I may go with that or with the color scheme on prototype VF3 since it is simple.
12-26-2007 | 12:17 PM
#243
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From: Woodstock, GA
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
ORIGINAL: srekar
Thanks for the info Dean. I found some shops locally but the K-36 is not real cheap. I was not able to find a better price than $70 for a quart with hardner. I called up atleast 10 shops and it was ranging from 70 to 90. I will prime the VF3 in next few days and make it ready for the paint.
So it is time for new set of questions
I am thinking to make a small paint booth to paint VF3 with a good exhaust fan.
I am about to buy the equipment to paint the VF3. I have some questions since I am completely new to paint.
1. After the primer, for the colors, is the Eclipse BCS is good to paint the whole plane?? or I still need a HVLP Gun for the colors?
A: The Eclipse will work fine for colors, but is really too small for primer. Although it WILL work for primer, you just have to use more reducer.
2. Since I live in Appt, I am looking for a very quite compressor. IF I need to buy only the Airbrush, then compressors may be quite but Any advise in choosing the compressor??
A: get a compressor with a reservoir tank, capable of 1.2cfm at least. Shop around. Iwata has a very good one, just depends on what you want to spend.
3. Which compressor If I need to buy a HVLP like SATA Minijet along with the Iwata Eclipse BCS ??
A: If you get a Sata minijet you will need a larger compressor. Lowes or home depot have them in the right size, about 1/3-1/2 hp with a 15+ gallon tank. These are NOT quiet though.
I like the color scheme on the Arch's plane and I may go with that or with the color scheme on prototype VF3 since it is simple.
A: Nothing wrong with that, simple usually looks better anyway
Also make sure you get a good respirator and moisture traps.
Thanks for the info Dean. I found some shops locally but the K-36 is not real cheap. I was not able to find a better price than $70 for a quart with hardner. I called up atleast 10 shops and it was ranging from 70 to 90. I will prime the VF3 in next few days and make it ready for the paint.
So it is time for new set of questions
I am thinking to make a small paint booth to paint VF3 with a good exhaust fan.
I am about to buy the equipment to paint the VF3. I have some questions since I am completely new to paint.
1. After the primer, for the colors, is the Eclipse BCS is good to paint the whole plane?? or I still need a HVLP Gun for the colors?
A: The Eclipse will work fine for colors, but is really too small for primer. Although it WILL work for primer, you just have to use more reducer.
2. Since I live in Appt, I am looking for a very quite compressor. IF I need to buy only the Airbrush, then compressors may be quite but Any advise in choosing the compressor??
A: get a compressor with a reservoir tank, capable of 1.2cfm at least. Shop around. Iwata has a very good one, just depends on what you want to spend.
3. Which compressor If I need to buy a HVLP like SATA Minijet along with the Iwata Eclipse BCS ??
A: If you get a Sata minijet you will need a larger compressor. Lowes or home depot have them in the right size, about 1/3-1/2 hp with a 15+ gallon tank. These are NOT quiet though.
I like the color scheme on the Arch's plane and I may go with that or with the color scheme on prototype VF3 since it is simple.
A: Nothing wrong with that, simple usually looks better anyway
Also make sure you get a good respirator and moisture traps.
12-26-2007 | 04:41 PM
#244
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From: Guilderland,
NY
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
Thanks Mike. When called the Dixieart, they suggested the Scorpion II with Tank compressor for the silent operation to use with Eclipse brushes. Any experience with this compressor??
Alos, is the Eclipse can be used for the Clear too??
Thanks
Srikar.
Alos, is the Eclipse can be used for the Clear too??
Thanks
Srikar.
12-26-2007 | 04:57 PM
#245
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From: Woodstock, GA
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
For as cheap as that eclipse is, I'd get one dedicated to clear only. But yes, it will work, open up the spray pattern and reduce the clear like crazy. Just experiment a little before shooting the plane.
No experience with that particular compressor, I use the iwata power jet pro.
-Mike
No experience with that particular compressor, I use the iwata power jet pro.
-Mike
12-26-2007 | 06:57 PM
#246
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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
Srikar,
One thing Mike will agree 100% about my scheme is that we have yet to find a sky that it is not REALLY visable. The orange shows up no matter what the sky conditions. The first day at the NATS was horrible for visibility last year, and Mike took off with the Red VF3, and about 15 seconds into his procedure turn we both knew it was going to be a LONG flight. 4 pilots later when I took off we both noticed immediately how visible my scheme is.
Arch
One thing Mike will agree 100% about my scheme is that we have yet to find a sky that it is not REALLY visable. The orange shows up no matter what the sky conditions. The first day at the NATS was horrible for visibility last year, and Mike took off with the Red VF3, and about 15 seconds into his procedure turn we both knew it was going to be a LONG flight. 4 pilots later when I took off we both noticed immediately how visible my scheme is.
Arch
12-27-2007 | 09:21 AM
#247
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From: Guilderland,
NY
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
Arch, no doubt that your scheme is very visible in the sky. As a first time painter, I am not sure how good I can do that scheme. I am about to order the airbrush and play with it some cheap colors on the papaer for some time and then paint the VF3. I want to learn the painting techniques too while I learn the building techniques on my first kit Vf3.
One question on colors is, are these colors needs to match the Monokote by rule from AMA or NSRCA for compititions?? or we just make them match the monokote since they are common and good looking coclors??? I was looking at OSMSE and it seems the scheme used some non standred colors???
Srikar.
One question on colors is, are these colors needs to match the Monokote by rule from AMA or NSRCA for compititions?? or we just make them match the monokote since they are common and good looking coclors??? I was looking at OSMSE and it seems the scheme used some non standred colors???
Srikar.
12-27-2007 | 09:58 AM
#248
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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
Srikar,
There is no requirement to match any colors....we do it just because it looks better. I picked Monokote colors I liked and then matched the paint. The scheme isn't necessarily what is visible so much as the colors and contrast. You don't have to do an elaborate scheme. I learned a long time ago, the contrast is what matters. My previous Mantis has a VERY easy scheme, and it was very visible as well. See the pics below,
Arch
There is no requirement to match any colors....we do it just because it looks better. I picked Monokote colors I liked and then matched the paint. The scheme isn't necessarily what is visible so much as the colors and contrast. You don't have to do an elaborate scheme. I learned a long time ago, the contrast is what matters. My previous Mantis has a VERY easy scheme, and it was very visible as well. See the pics below,
Arch
12-27-2007 | 10:45 AM
#249
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From: Woodstock, GA
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
No rule, it's just for looks. Check out the red plane dean Funk did, that's true candy apple red. That plane glowed....
But it was difficult to see in overcast conditions. Not enough contrast on the top of the plane. Like Arch said, it was very cloudy at the Nationals this year. I took off, and when Arch got to me to call, he said "umm.....can you see that?" I said ".....................uh no.............." and so began one of the most interesting flights of my pattern career. (although I had a few interesting flights this year). The bottom line was if the wing was slightly dipped, I couldn't see it. So when I pulled or pushed, the plane rarely transitioned into a good vertical. And by the time I saw it off course, too late.
My advise: pick colors that are easy to see to begin with, and think contrast. On a cloudy day it turns black and white anyway, so what you see is the shapes and patterns. you need a lot of break in color and definite contrast. Draw your color scheme out on a piece of paper or on the computer, then walk back about 10 steps and have another look. Color schemes are an artforam unto themselves.
We all learn and improve. And for what it's worth, Dean learns faster than anyone I know. Wait until you see his new plane [8D] THAT one makes me drool.
-Mike
But it was difficult to see in overcast conditions. Not enough contrast on the top of the plane. Like Arch said, it was very cloudy at the Nationals this year. I took off, and when Arch got to me to call, he said "umm.....can you see that?" I said ".....................uh no.............." and so began one of the most interesting flights of my pattern career. (although I had a few interesting flights this year). The bottom line was if the wing was slightly dipped, I couldn't see it. So when I pulled or pushed, the plane rarely transitioned into a good vertical. And by the time I saw it off course, too late.
My advise: pick colors that are easy to see to begin with, and think contrast. On a cloudy day it turns black and white anyway, so what you see is the shapes and patterns. you need a lot of break in color and definite contrast. Draw your color scheme out on a piece of paper or on the computer, then walk back about 10 steps and have another look. Color schemes are an artforam unto themselves.
We all learn and improve. And for what it's worth, Dean learns faster than anyone I know. Wait until you see his new plane [8D] THAT one makes me drool.
-Mike
12-27-2007 | 01:07 PM
#250
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From: Guilderland,
NY
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
Finally ready for filling and sanding. I already glassed the wing/stabs and hopefuly will glass the fuse by the end of the week. I must agree that I enjoyed this kit a lot and learned a lot in build process.
I think I will finish priming it in this year and paint for next year.
I think I will finish priming it in this year and paint for next year
.
