For those who are reporting needing aileron trim, I would suggest checking the incidence of the elevator halfves. I have not noticed any need for aileron trim on my Suk, but I think I remember finding the elevators off just a bit from side to side during assembly. If you find both sides true, you could still adjust one side of the elevator to reduce the amount of aileron trim you are currently using. Just a thought and an easy fix.

Thanks for that Catfish2, I had been hoping someone would come up with a suggestion as to what could be wrong and a possible fix, with the ailerons and true to this thread someone has.
Now all I have to do is figure out how to check the incidence of the elevators[:-] oh well back to my books!!!!! LOL
Lee
Ps If you are using Extreme link 2.4ghz be very very careful, I have now had three separate failures and have changed to the JR spectrum module set up and have three recievers fitted to the plane!!!
Lost my last 10 channel on the workbench???? whew.

Keep in mind that prop driven airplanes are not perfectly symmetrical. The air blast from the prop is swirling off the prop, rising on the left side and falling on the right. Then there is gyroscopic precession and the asymmetry of the prop blades' thrust as they rotate. It's not a perfect world, that's why we have trims and firewall thrust angles and the like.

TF

I found that my elevator halves were a tad bit off also, in the direction causing more aileron trim . matching the elevators allowed me to remove a bit of the trim in the ailerons, now it's about what I was expecting..... 2 clicks right. Didn't bother with incidence as I am just a sport flier learning a bit of 3d . Plane holds well in both up and down lines hands off, inverted with just the slightest up and snaps like a flying monkey


I have like 4 other planes that I will probably never fly again due to this plane being so much fun.

I second that. I only needed 2 clicks of right aileron. As with Don, I mainly sport fly, haven't tried 3D yet with this plane. It flies great at this point. So rather than take a chance screwing something up, I'll leave the incidence alone. Awesome of you to have an answer to this Catfish2. This thread has been invaluable!

Howdy
Started to look into the incidence thing last night and thought maybe I'am playing around with things to much?????, to take on board what Tom has said and you others prhaps I should leave well alone. The old story " if its not broke don't fix it". Still love flying this machine around, trying to get it to flat spin!!!! nearly got it. Mind you I think Iam a slow learner.
Hey what would happen if you miss matched the elevatots to half compensate for the ailerons, there is less of the elevators, so less drag. Yes No Stupid????? thoughts.
Lee

Lee if you offset the elevators to compensate for the ailerons your loops would look like corkscrews. Most of the differences in the aileron trims is due to some slight warpage in the ailerons themselves, mine have some bows, combine that with P-facter from a big prop and a little lateral balance issue and it can turn into all night chase. If it's close trim it, fly it and after you crash it maybe the next one will be better.....just kiddin'.

Ruski31, yeah Iam hearing you, thanks for the info, probably had I thought that through I would never have written it LOL.
Ill just keep flying it till it turns back into a kit!!!!
Lee

Just to clarify, I was refering to adjusting the stabilizer (fixed) side of the elevator, not the elevator control surfaces. This could be used to help with the trim issue and would have no particular impact on loop straightness.

Yea, I was trying to clarify that when I went back and looked my elevator halves ( movable parts ) were not matched and part of my need for what I thought was a suspect amount of right Aileron trim was a result of the elevators not being matched. But as to your post yes I agree if you want to have a very straight flying plane through all attitudes than you must insure that all incidence angles are correct. This is definitely a must for anyone flying any type of precision competition or even 3d for that matter. That said, it's probably something the sport pilot doesn't really need to worry about unless the manufacturer has really screwed the pooch during the building process. This being my first large scale plane I am really happy with it, it is perfect?, probably not but I can't tell and I am happy with the way it flies and I think that is what matters . Heck, Ill probably do something dumb like run over it with my wheelchair before I get 25% of the planes serviceable life out of it lol

So basically check all the surfaces, here is a small list of surface and linkage related items to look at that may help you to remove a bit of trim that might have been used to compensate for a problem somewhere else.

Do they line up with each other at nutral?.
Do they work in unison through their range of travel.
Do they have the same range of travel?
Is your linkage geometry the same on both sides?
Are your servos' working at the same speed and centering correctly?
Do the control surfaces move freely without binding or applying pressure.

Minus any aileron differential added if you set up your plane this way I would imagine that is the best you can do other than playing with thrust angles and incidence. I may have missed some things but these are the things I looked at when I was trying to figure out why I had so much aileron trim.

Yeah Catfish I agree the horizontal stab should be checked to make sure both halves have identical incidence and kept that way, but Lee wanted to offset his elevators, big mistake. Aaxiss has a pretty good list above. Most important is do they line up evenly at neutral and at full deflection, that will incorporate everything on the list and then some.

Ok hang on a bit,pls correct me if iam wrong, I wanted to adjust the elavators "the moveable parts" not the Horizontal stab. Is this still a big mistake. By the way what is the horizontal stab incidence suppossed to be, and what about the wings ( I suppose I just gota play)
Lee

Wing incidence and stabs should be 0 degrees !

Ta Roboto65, along with axxiss,catfish2 and Ruski65. Will check all this info out and see if it flys any better, after all you have to muck around with something, is this not a mans perogative?????
Lee LOL

adjusting the elevators ( movable Parts ) should be fine as long as you are just matching them... I wouldn't use any trim in the elevators to try and offset the trim in the ailerons. It couldn't hurt to check the incidence on the H stabs and correct it if it's off a ton, maybe a degree or more, I wouldn't sweat less than a degree myself ( a degree between both stabs sides and no more than half a degree off from 0 either up or down on either side). As for the wings, ya got me there. I have no clue as to how you would go about changing the incidence with the wings being pocketed like they are, seems to be a lot of work.

Most of the time I take it for granted that the money I am paying for an ARF plane includes the engineering behind developing the plane and assuring that it is built as the engineers foresaw. about 50% of the time I get bit LOL

Sorry Ruski31 I kinda covered some of the stuff in your last post also, at least Lee will get the point [sm=72_72.gif]

Thats OK Aaxiss you're absolutely correct. Sometimes things need to be communicated in more than just one way to make things a little clearer to all. By the way my welder is hooked up to 100 amps and puts out 400 amps but I can't get it to take off ya think its got too much nose weight? .........Ha

Look for An Idiot Proof Elevator Differential Gauge on this page [link=http://www.rcpattern.nxs.net/tipsB.htm]http://www.rcpattern.nxs.net/tipsB.htm[/link] as a great way to match your elevators.

Cheers
Pupmeister

Nothing is idiot proof.

TF

Unfortunately very true, and I am sure that you could write a book about it when it comes to the planes that you sell (most probably include me in one or two of the stories)

Cheers
Pupmeister

I dunno Tom, I reckon I can use it. Thanks Pupmeister
Lee

Mine will be in the air tomorrow weather permitting but I was wondering what weights others have came in at . Mine is 17lbs 6oz with the carbon tube . could take the pants off and save 4 oz . Set up with 5955 all round with 5475? on throttle and choke. Mvvs 58 on a three pipe bisson muffler which was 10 oz lighter than the cannister set up plus My header wouldnt work with this plane . engine is turning a 24x10 mejlik at 6350 or a 24 x 10 bunny at 6600. less than the 7200 on the mejlik on the can but should still be lots of power .I am running lipos and regs now but the A123 are on the way and I have to upgrade my thunder power 1010c charger to charge them also going to the new Fromeco Kodiak switches with the mah indicator on them.

Any issues any one can spot?


Randy

As for me Iam not happy with my Wildhare Su,because I have needing aileron trim as well.
Maybe I wont buy any Wildhare...
Sorry But Its true....

well unfortunately almost any ARF is going to need a bit of tweaking especially the wing and stab incidences. As tom stated there are other factors too. I got mine very close and am satisfied with it, others may be perfectionists and wont be happy if upon landing the plane they look at the control surfaces and find the ailerons p by 1/8" I have a friend like that who over engineers everything and most of the time ends adding a lot of weight to the model from his " Improvements " or down right destroying it and rendering it unflyable . I don't let him touch my planes if I can help it LOL

These Planes have the correct incidence built into the jigs but over time parts wear, drill bits dull and people tire, things can be off a tad. Either read up and learn how to remedy the situation yourself, Find someone who can help you or as you said go with another model brand and spend another $100 or more and fool your self into thinking that Manufacturer X has better Non-wearing parts, magic stay sharp drill bits and employees that never get tired

Yep I agree aaxis also leaves more for us from TOM

Hey Guys.

My Toc 53 MM throtle arm broke on me where I can get another one Throtle arm ?

Thanks