namancheno

Hi guys:

Here in Ecuador we have recived now more then 5 Wind S Pro and all have the same problem. On up line the plane will go to the cabin. CG is set like in the manual 190mm - 200mm. We can´t move any more the incidents of the elevator they are all the way up and still the plane goes to the cabin in the up line. We have try to give the motor down thrust and it fixes the problem a little but it still will go to the cabin in up lines and now the spinner is not aling and looks wierd with down thrust. The only way to make the plane fly good in a up line is to give it a Th-Ele mix on full th like a 4.5% of down elevator.

General flight very good; Snaps OK, Spins perfect, Rolls very good, Stall turns perfect; only problem is with the up lines. I bought 2 planes and both are doing the same thing in the up line.

I really don´t know what elese to do. [:@] I´m thinking to put incident regulator to the main wing to fix this problem. [] Has anybody else had this problem? Any ideas on why and how to fix this problem?

Hope the someone can help me with this.

Regards,

Ney
Quito-Ecuador
F3A Team

namancheno

Here are some pictures of my Wind S Pro




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Regards,

Ney
Quito-Ecuador
F3A Team

anders12

Hello!
On the two Wind S Pro´s I`ve built this was not a problem. With the wings mounted i rigged the airframe so that the leadingedge of the wing was 2.5mm higher than the trailingedge measured just outside the fairing. The stabs where then adjusted to zero difference between leading- and trailingdege. The stab adjusters were however near their endpoint. Engine thrust is exactly as built into the nosering. CG is at 210mm from leading edge according to manual. This gives neutral elevators and perfectly straight uplines. On one model I had to adlust the angle of the left wing, the leadingedge was to high. I simple pulled out the antirotationpins and moved them as needed.

Regards Anders Johansson.

namancheno

Anders:

Thank you for your rersponse. So this means that there are bad kit out there in the market. That is way all of the plane here in Ecuador have the same problem with the up lines.

This really sucks [:@] [>:] If you buy a plane that does not have a main wing regulator, quality control should be sure that the wings are 100% correct.

Now to fix the problem I have to make changes to the main wings. I´m so F..... mad. I´ve waisted more then 30 flight on each plane.

It realy sucks, now fix main wings and start all over.

Regards,

Ney
Quito-Ecuador
F3A Team

anders12

Ney!

I think you are overreacting. The error was very minor. If you dont have a visible amount of aileron trim are your wings probably alwright. The error would not affect upplines as much as aileron trim
If your CG is at 190mm I would call it nose heavy. The manual says 200mm at windy conditions and 210mm at calm conditions. I`ve flown the entire season with the rerward CG witout problems. CG 20mm forward would give some up elevator trim giving you problem with uplines!

Regards Anders J

rcpattern

My Feedback: (45)

Did you guys make the wing fences for you Wind S Pro? I have 2 and neither came with a template or anything for them. I wanted to try them, but was curious if they were available through SebArt,

Arch

namancheno

Hi Arch:

We made them all by hand. I talk to Sebart but they do not have this for the kits.

We made them from zero, only guide line was the photos I took in Portugal to Sebastiano´s planes. They really work. I love them. You will fell that you have to cut your rudder movement by almost half.

We had to do it in a try if it fits way. It took a lot of time to get them right.

Take care,


Ney
Quito-Ecuador
F3A Team

nmartin

Ney,

Are you running any elevator trim, and what is your wing incidence (assuming the horizontal stab is at 0 degrees)? If you have some elevator trim then it could be affecting the plane in one way or another.

If it's of any use, a "common"(?) setup for the Wind 2m we've been using here in Oz is to fully, positively, max out the horizontal stab incidence with the adjusters (but both sides equalled) and then with the plane’s tail raised so the horiz-stab is at 0 degrees, make the wing +1 degree positive.

Also (...bit subjective, but here goes...), it seems that some of us have had different wing incidences from the factory. For example some of the 'newer' Wind 2m's have been coming out with the wings at the +1 degree per the setup described above. However on mine, per the setup above, the wing incidence from the factory was only just barley 0 degrees (one wing-side was 0 deg and the other side was negative to that). As such I’ve installed (wing) adjusters and elongated the wing-pin holes so as to get the +1 deg pos. ...Note mine's an 'earlier' Wind 2m.

Cheers,
Neil

woodie

With the wing at +1 degree positive to the stab, what is the relative downthrust in the spinner ring?

Thanks
Woodie
Team Acme LG

underwoodsteve

hi ney,
           any chance of the dimensions of the wing fences , i have 2 wind`s` pros and they both are great models  , sorry to hear of your problems, your models look great!!.

regards
steve

namancheno

Hi Neil:

Your 100% correct. My main wings are all f...... up. Plane1 has the left -.02 and right side is +1.1. Plane2 has left side 0 and right side is +0.6. [:@][X(] [b] No wonder the planes have the problems that I´m having in the up lines. Both planes have max out the elevator. It never cross my mine that a plane that come without any wing regulator can be so off in the degrees of the wings.

Now to fix the problems I will take off the down thrust I gave the motors and installed the wing regulator and put on both side of the wings +1.0.

My planes know have a CG at 210


Do you have a measurement when the elevetors ar max out, what degrees do you have?????

Take care,

Ney

namancheno

Steve:

I´ll do my best to try to give you the dimensions of the fences. Like I said we made them in a try if it fits way and I never put them in paper.

I will do this today in the evening and will post it tomorrow.

Regards,

Ney

underwoodsteve

ney,
      great stuff many thanks for your efforts ...

regards
steve

rcpattern

My Feedback: (45)

Ney,

Thanks very much for the effort,

Arch

wattsup

My Feedback: (1)

namancheno, sorry to hear of your problems with both planes. I tried to warn everyone of the "quality control" issues of this plane earlier in this thread but was subsequently taken to task by Arch and Tim. Well, there must have been some truth to my assessment! I support your efforts to take this manufacturer to task in this public forum and regret you also got stuck with yet another "OTOP"! I am thankful that I have the abilty to build my planes from the kits of some of the better manufacturers and don't have to rely on the over rated and over priced "shake and bake" varieties. Regards____Everette

rcpattern

My Feedback: (45)

Everette,

I've never claimed these were perfect, however, they do make weight easily, which is one problem many ARF's have had. The issues are mostly annoyances as opposed to major problems. I wish they would've included wing adjusters, but they didn't. Fortunately mine, and several others on here have not had incidence problems, but adjusting it, is not a major undertaking. Yes, I would love for everything to be perfect, but for the cost it is certainly very reasonable. Most KITS with composite fuses now run around 1200-1500 dollars and the ones that are cheaper, usually do not include a lot of the sheeting or landing gear, so your costs come out about the same, so assuming the 1500 price tag for a kit, essentially you are getting a great flying plane for 500.00 painted and most of the work done. While not perfect everytime, the finish alone will cost that. I'm sure no one on this thread would tolerate the issues had they paid 5K+ or so for an Oxai or significantly more for a Naruke built plane, or even having a professional builder build their plane, but for what you pay for a plane that is consistently making weight I don't think this is unreasonable. The Otop's were junk and even if you fixed the problems, they flew poorly, whereas these small inconveniences are all overshadowed by the flight performance of the plane. If I expected perfection, I would expect to be paying significantly more. Even a Visa from CA that comes at a similar stage with painted fuse and monokoted wings is 1200 bucks more, and the painted wing version is even more. Frankly if it takes less than an evening or two to fix small issues, then that is what I would consider them. Frankly for 95% of the issues I've seen in this thread, I personally would be hard pressed to duplicate the fit and finish work on either of the planes I have, but then again, I don't claim to be a professional builder. I agree that nothing is perfect, on my 2nd plane there is a slight indention on the bottom of the plane near the air exit hole, but I didn't even notice it at first and if you don't know where to look, most people couldn't find it. I think each problem presented can be easily solved with some fairly minor work. Certainly much easier than getting a kit and finishing it complete.

Arch

wattsup

My Feedback: (1)

Arch, I'm not certain but, I think the issues that namancheno is suffering with will probably take more than wing adjuster's to correct. I have no way to verify or confirm his findings without jigging and lasering his particular fuse/wing/stab combinations. It does seem odd that both of his planes have similiar problems. +1 degree of incidence in the wings seems excessive, but again, without actually examining his planes and/or observing them in flight, I have no way of knowing. You are correct, none of these planes are perfect nor, should we expect them to be but, how much can a pair of wing adjuster's add to the final price of these Sebart kits? Perhaps $12-$20? I feel the financial cost is significantly less than the human frustration brought on by the manufacturer's effort to prduce a "cheap/competitive" kit! BTW, on a positive note, I recieved one of Andrew Jesky's Osiris kits last week from Ben at 3D Hobby Shop and am very impressed with the fit & finish and overall quality. Congratulations to all who were involved in bringing this kit to fruition. Regards___Everette

Mastertech

My Feedback: (31)

Everette,

It bothered me that you seem to consistently bash airplanes in multiple postings. It looked like you never had a good word about any airplane out there. I admit I did find one post on a lipo you appeared to like on another site.

You constantly berated these airplanes as "Junk" which it's obvious to most anyone that has one they're far from junk. Do mass produced airplanes sometimes have problems? Sure they do, does it make sense to bring those problems to the manufacture? Absolutely.

I for one am willing to put up with these small issues ( they are very minor BTW) and save several thousand bucks in the process.

But constantly calling them "Junk" is dishonest. Especially from someone that has never owned one.

Tim

wattsup

My Feedback: (1)

Tim, I did NOT solicit a response or personal opinion from you. As I've said in the past, it does not matter what YOU ultimately beg, borrow or steal, you've still got to fly it! Just remember, Tony F is waiting and preparing to give another clinic at Muncie in July! Merry Christmas____Everette

rcpattern

My Feedback: (45)

Everette,

I totally agree on the adjusters. I really wish they would put them in there.

How to you figure Tony is giving clinics? Just curious. In 2009, he and I won the same number of rounds and split the rounds against each other, including the finals, he won by a total of 11 normalized points. This year, on day 1 when he and I flew against each other I won the first round and had a catastrophic airplane failure happening in round 2 and still barely lost the round even though I was flying with nearly 1/4 stick of aileron to maintain level flight, then I had the aileron depart the next day trying to find the problem. Guess that happens with a plane with over 2300 flights, never again will I go to the NATS without a pair of my OWN planes and I'm already set for next year. Steven Byrd also won rounds from him this year. Yes, tony won, but I certainly wouldnt call it a clinic...

Arch

Mastertech

My Feedback: (31)

Merry Christmas to you and yours as well Everette.

nmartin

Woodie,

My motor is at -0.3 deg (down thrust). ...That's with the spinner aligned to the nose. (...And +1 deg in the wings, 0 in the h-stab)

Cheers,
Neil M.

nmartin

Ney,

I’m assuming you mean how much elevator throw? Well, actually I never measured it with any kind of angle tool. Rather I set it by eye (...that looks about right), then flew the plane and adjusted throws/rates from there. FWIW, I’m using the JR servo arms like in the instruction manual, but in one (1) hole closer to the centre compared to shown in the manual.

My c-of-g is pretty much on 185mm from the leading edge. The setup doesn't require any elevator mixes, i.e. no rud-elev and no thro-elev mixes. (…There is still a very slight pull to the canopy in a extremely loooooooooooooong downline, but hardly noticeable in the Figure-M, humpty with 2/4 pt down, etc..) Still have some rud-ail mixing in there.

And please post any info you have regarding your wing fences. Did you ever compare the plane without the fences versus with the fences?

Cheers,
Neil M.

woodie

Thanks Neil

My guess is the Wind S Pro I am trying to trim doesn't have much (if any) positive incidence in the wing. I will have to measure it more carefully to see how close I am to your settings.

Woodie
Team Acme LG

chuck4816s

My Feedback: (11)

Wow this thread got ugly quick! It seems to me that if you are a serious pattern flyer that you would be more than capable of putting in wing adjusters and setting the incidence yourself. The amount of time that was taken to piss and moan about the problem you could of already had it fixed and dialed back in! LOL

Just my 2 cents

Chuck