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Old 05-15-2015, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150


Seldom will the needle setting that worked on the test stand be exactly the same as when the engine is mounted in the airframe. Especially if the engine is mounted in a different orientation as far as vertical/inverted.
My settings on the test stand never require changing once in the airplane, but I NEVER have an inverted mounting anymore. Been there, done that, did not enjoy.
Old 05-15-2015, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by AeroFinn
Yes, it sounds strange. I think no conclusive results was achieved in my testing as the engine was under running-in phase. I will test the engine with 10% Aerosave and 5% nitro.

By the way, I don't get why the piston / liners would suffer of the lower oil content if YS CDI and Evolution radials are happy with 6-9% oil. The non-bushed connection rod may be an issue, I dunno. It's funny to read that some have had problems related to connecting rod failures with 20% oil in the fuel for some reason? Maybe due to a too tight fit of a connecting rod & crankpin in conjunction with failure to carry out running-in phase properly?

Anyways, I'm leaning towards thinking that the main thing is ensure the engine gets good cooling, i.e. a proper baffking arrangement s applied or the engine is exposed open to airflow without cowling.

It' seems the "old school" approach is to partly compensate inadequate cooling by having excess amount of oil in the fuel which is then thrown out of the exhaust to cool down the otherwise too hot running engine.
Ok

Now I have tested my FA-125a CH-Ignitions CDI a bit more with low nitro / low oil fuel. (10% Aerosave + 5% nitro)

Compared to 17% Aerosave / 15% nitro the max rpm seems to be very closed the same. Maybe 50rpm less with the low oil /low nitro fuel. The engine temperature were no problem (max temp i was able to measure with an IR gun was about 115deg celsius after prolonged full throttle. That was closed to the park plug at the rear of the engine. Outside temperature was pretty cold about 7 deg celsius, though.)

Timing set at 30,5 degrees BTDC.

In order to achieve smooth low idle I played with various LS needle settings. I tried both richening and leaning the LS needle with very,very small increments (like 2 minutes at a time) up to about 3/4 to rich and 1/4 turns to lean. No help, nada. The engine seems to have rough idle no matter what I try. This is confusing. I did not have time to test my regular Saito fuel (17% Aerosave / 15% nitro) which seemed to produce a lot smoother idle when I tried the CDI for the first time.

I'm not giving up yet but it seems new ideas to test are needed The fuel can be, of course, bad but I remember having tested the same jug on my Lasers about 3-4 weeks ago without any issues so this is not avery probable scenario. I also keep my fuel at a steady ambient temperature.

Please find a link on a video. As you can hear from the video the LS is set so lean that the engine rpm doesn't drop instantly to low idle when backing from full throttle. Yet the engine stumbles and misses beats when idleing. The idle rpm also fluctuates. I really appreciate if anybody has good ideas as to what to try next!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhV9daOPEBs


-Artto
Old 05-15-2015, 12:20 PM
  #29253  
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Originally Posted by AeroFinn
Ok

Now I have tested my FA-125a CH-Ignitions CDI a bit more with low nitro / low oil fuel. (10% Aerosave + 5% nitro)

Compared to 17% Aerosave / 15% nitro the max rpm seems to be very closed the same. Maybe 50rpm less with the low oil /low nitro fuel. The engine temperature were no problem (max temp i was able to measure with an IR gun was about 115deg celsius after prolonged full throttle. That was closed to the park plug at the rear of the engine. Outside temperature was pretty cold about 7 deg celsius, though.)

Timing set at 30,5 degrees BTDC.

In order to achieve smooth low idle I played with various LS needle settings. I tried both richening and leaning the LS needle with very,very small increments (like 2 minutes at a time) up to about 3/4 to rich and 1/4 turns to lean. No help, nada. The engine seems to have rough idle no matter what I try. This is confusing. I did not have time to test my regular Saito fuel (17% Aerosave / 15% nitro) which seemed to produce a lot smoother idle when I tried the CDI for the first time.

I'm not giving up yet but it seems new ideas to test are needed The fuel can be, of course, bad but I remember having tested the same jug on my Lasers about 3-4 weeks ago without any issues so this is not avery probable scenario. I also keep my fuel at a steady ambient temperature.

Please find a link on a video. As you can hear from the video the LS is set so lean that the engine rpm doesn't drop instantly to low idle when backing from full throttle. Yet the engine stumbles and misses beats when idleing. The idle rpm also fluctuates. I really appreciate if anybody has good ideas as to what to try next!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhV9daOPEBs


-Artto
Make a reference mark on the prop hub/magnet ring & play with the timing.
Old 05-15-2015, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
Make a reference mark on the prop hub/magnet ring & play with the timing.

Thanks dan, Good remark!

I asssume you mean that higher nitro fuel burns well even if the ignition timing is not optimal? And the other way round low nitro fuel requirers optimal timing

I hope advancing the timing helps with my low oil/ low nitro fuel. We'll see.
Old 05-15-2015, 03:42 PM
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Also I suggest try run without the tachometer.
I found that sometimes the engine will not run right.
and some times will not start at all.
Look to see if the tach is a v2 or v3.
if is v3 chances are that could have interface .
rcxel changed the hardware and ch do not work well with v3.
I am working on a new Timing board that will not be influenced by the tach.

Adrian
Old 05-15-2015, 03:47 PM
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Also make gap on the spark plug .35mm, go and try up to a 36btdc.

Adrian
Old 05-15-2015, 05:27 PM
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Could use a little help for my Saito FA-80GK. Engine ran like a champ. Both bearing crapped out. Put new bearing in and everything works fine. Great idle, doesn't rise when I pinch off the fuel line at idle. So, low side is great, now, when I try and transition to higher rpm the engine sputters and cuts off. I noticed some leaking fuel around the glow plug and replaced the plug with a new copper gasket. Still can't transition. Any one have any experience to help? Thanks.
Bob
Old 05-15-2015, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Good deal, I've never owned a LIPO battery, it seems as though every time I read about them someone is having a problem.
Dave i stick to flat or humpback eneloop nicads.We fly in dry country most of the year here and the strip is surrounded by trees and bush.Last year i saw a pilot dump a smoking lipo pack into a bucket of water and guess what happened when it was pulled out an hour later,yup,started smoking again and another guy managed to burn his whole house down.I'll take the weight penalty of nicads any day.
Old 05-15-2015, 06:19 PM
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Snuffy richen up the lsn a bit before you adjust anything else.The gk's look nice.
Old 05-15-2015, 06:28 PM
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Shouldn't the engine rpm increase as the engine runs lean (that is fuel supply is running out due to pinching of the fuel line)??
Old 05-15-2015, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by CH Ignitions
Also make gap on the spark plug .35mm, go and try up to a 36btdc.

Adrian
Thanks Adrian.

I did not know of these potential issues with the rcxel tachometers. I will try the engine without it and set the gap on 0,35mm and play with the timining as you and Dan suggest. What is strange, though, is in your video on FA-125a you have set the timing at 30 degrees BTDC and the engine runs brilliantly. Now in the video this is with 15% nitro. In case you tested the engine with 5% nitro or straight fuel how did the engine idle?

-Artto
Old 05-16-2015, 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by FNQFLYER
Shouldn't the engine rpm increase as the engine runs lean (that is fuel supply is running out due to pinching of the fuel line)??
Honestly trev,you would think one of the saito experts here would have agreed with you by now and said for gawd's sake richen the bottom end up,but i guess you are out of luck friend do you think we live in an instant gratification fast food generation where everyone else needs to do your thinkin for ya?
Old 05-16-2015, 03:44 AM
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Not if the LS needle is on the verge of being too lean, in that case it will just quit, now as to quitting after stumbling when opening the HS needle, my guess that the HS needle is too rich. Try this when opening the throttle, (with glow juice attached), when it starts to stumble, lean the HS needle very slowly. If it accelerates, open throttle some more, if more stumbling occurs, lean some more until it will run at full throttle. Now, remove glow power and find peak, leave it at absolute and go back to fine tune LS needle. Now richen hs to your favorite flying setting.
Old 05-16-2015, 06:58 AM
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Another way to find a LS needle that is on the verge of being too lean is to just fly the plane around the traffic pattern a few times. You can usually hear it lean out some. Maybe pull up vertical and give it the throttle and listen. If it gets set the proper way on the ground and passes the fly test then it's set, but flying will throw some real life variables at the engine that you need to listen for.

That comment about the 125 being an odd ball Saito is dead on the money, imo.
Old 05-16-2015, 02:33 PM
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Old Fart, I offer my comments based on my limited experience and thank my lucky stars for all the experts out there, some quite knowledgeable others well those are the ones I like especially at competition time. We had the same problem at the field a few weeks ago with an Enya 41 (4 stroke). The fixes were in order, a new plug (the old one was about 12 months old), richening up the bottom end, leaning off the top end and fitting a more appropriate prop for the task. Another one was a Saito 45 that would not get the model off the ground. Same trainer as it was previously fitted to EXCEPT this one was heavier, about 1/2 a kilos worth minimum. It was fitted with a 9x5 tri blade simple fix fit an 11x6 Master airscrew paint stirrer (2 blade) revved lots better and got off the ground "with alacrity". Works so well now that the 90 year old flying it has trouble flying it "properly" at 1/2 throttle, on previous model it always operated at full throttle for the same speed. What I am trying to say here is that some times the fix is not always obvious but that there are certain constants like when you pinch the fuel line the RPM will increase due to engine running lean. Now is it ***** freezing but sky is blue and if the wind doesn't come up I am off to fly some models, state champs in June. Fortunately my field is just 10 minutes away. Catch ya.
Old 05-16-2015, 04:15 PM
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I received the much looked forward to .90 ts, we're having some violent storms right now so no picture yet. It's an older series but unrun. I might get to break it in tomorrow after Church.
Old 05-17-2015, 03:45 AM
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Here is a picture of the 90ts, the correct pipes are on the way, these work but are bent a little too much. They are for the 1.00 twin. The mounted prop is a Bolly 13.5x6, it should be about right for break in.
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Old 05-17-2015, 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Here is a picture of the 90ts, the correct pipes are on the way, these work but are bent a little too much. They are for the 1.00 twin. The mounted prop is a Bolly 13.5x6, it should be about right for break in.
That is very nice. I have a NIB FA-90T coming me next week to compliment the 80T I have. I just love running the engine! It is one of the best hand starting engines I have ever had. Once primed it is a single flip starter. Please let us know she runs. Is it new and unrun? I ask because you mentioned break-in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbuwh4x-ARg
Old 05-17-2015, 05:18 AM
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Yes sir it is new and unrun, I got it more less as a naked engine, but I knew that up front. It has Saito SS plugs in it, I am pleased as punch as the old saying goes. A Bruce Tharpe Flying King will be it's home.

Last edited by Hobbsy; 05-17-2015 at 09:50 AM.
Old 05-17-2015, 02:42 PM
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I like to read about new engines, I have NIB 1x82, 1x56, 1x30, 1x115, 1x FG20, and 1xFG36 all looking for homes in models I either have or will have. I often wonder how many NIB engines actually get used and how many "disappear". Bit like model kits I guess.
Old 05-18-2015, 04:47 AM
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Good news trev,send the 82 and 115 over for a run in..i'll send them back,promise.

Dave re the run in on the 90 twin was out in the shed lazily re reading my 182 twin manual again because i don't think i'm confused enough yet.Apparently it says i never should have run it over 4000 for the first twenty minutes then onj the second tank you can start it at full throttle and after a minute or two lean the twin main needles to peak rpm occasionally.After that you are supposed to fly it at less than full throttle for about ten flights,that never happened.Why so different for two bolted together 91's and a single one? i'm happy i don't have the manual in front of me to quote,no wonder people drink beer.
Old 05-18-2015, 09:13 AM
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OK Pete, I just finished running the .90ts in, it settled in at the 40 minute mark. It's gotten easy to tell when they're all in, I nearly changed out the Saito SS plugs because the idle was so ragged, it turned out the idle needle was about 2 turns out, I cured that by adding the glow driver and chasing the idle downward while leaning the LS needle. Here's the skinny

PS, I had no instructions so I wasn't confused.

Saito .90 TS twin
Prop ==Bolly 13.5x6
Fuel===WildCat 2/4 10% with 18% full synthetic
Exhaust== crinkle pipes from Saito 1.00 twin. Yep, uneven firing pipes worked on an even firing twin.
Max rpm 9,633
Idle, a perfect 1,865, I actually could lower it to 1,600 but it got shaky as in, about to drop a cylinder. It was rock steady at 1,865.
In both pictures it is turning 2,600 even and nearly on fumes.
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Old 05-19-2015, 04:25 AM
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Hi i meant to ask if you are running on board glow at low idle speeds,i like the continental style shape of the heads on the 90ts a friend has one unrun yet to go in a small falke motorglider,very graceful aeroplane re aerobatics.The pipes you salvaged from a 100? to fit the 90 cracked me up,who's on drugs now?

ps while i'm at it i should apologize to the good people reading this thread for popey's genteel,anti shooting manner.The poor so and so lives in a redneck free southern state over here,how's that for being round the other side of the world geography wise,it's upside down i reckon
Old 05-19-2015, 06:50 AM
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Pete, I never use on board glow power, I never saw the need for it. I tried it once so long ago that the on board system was built by ACE RC in Higginsville, Mo. I had a mechanical switch that you slid the actuator for or aft to set the energize point. I have the correct pipes coming.

PS, please say something about my new OS .56 or my feelins will be hurt.

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Old 05-19-2015, 02:53 PM
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Old Fart, don't pick on the pope after all his state is the last real strong hold of Sarah 2 dads and her buddies. They can't build ships but their O/T flyers do offer some competition at National level. Re the 82 and the 115, you pay the freight and lodge a security deposit and I might even think about it after a bottle of good QLD white otherwise you'll have to come over and collect them

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