Hello,
I am wondering if there are any airplanes on RF G2 that are capable to hover. I would really like to practice hovering on a sim, and I was wondering if RF has any airplanes that are capable of hovering with. Also, how realistic is the hovering on RF. Thanx -Patrick

Go to [link=http://www.bestrc.com/hobbies-bin/rfaircraftread.pl?&page=1]RealFlight Swap[/link] and download the Cap232 Double Sized (on page 2). Hovers great!

I went online with a couple of my moderators the other day and damn if one wasn't hovering a huge piper cub!!!!![X(][X(]

You know thats my biggest question, I can download just about any plane from all of those download sites. The ones that claim to 3D incredibly do they really? What I mean is take away the adreniline rush and the reality of crashing do the planes that are set up for 3D ing, 3D like that for real? you cant go into the set up and see what was done and try to make sense of half of them because the parameters to make them respond the way they do are so far out of wack if you were to build a plane to look like that it would look like 4 abstract parts of 4 different planes stuck together to make something a 4 year old would call a plane. I just would like to hear some one who knows how to 3D a real Extra, Edge, or Cap to say YES definatly these planes 3D like the real ones do. Or, no not really the attitude of the plane is realistic but in reality you need to work the sticks more or the throttle needs to work more in a real hover. Something like that. I can hover and do limited 3D stalls and maneuvers on all of the downloadable planes on the G2 website and on Aero 3D. I have also gotten pretty good at hovering the stock Edge 540 and Extra 330S with no modifications. I just cannot tell if its that difficult to do in real life. Or is it as easy as the downloadable planes. I am by far not a novice in the hobby but my 3D expertise is limited to the simulator. Last year towards the end of the season I purchased a Giles G 300 from YA and a Morris Knife from someone on this website RTF. I understand that the Giles wont 3D to well but the Morris is an absolute 3D machine and a 3D trainner by comparason to the Edge or Extra. So, I practiced on the G2 Sim downloaded a profile from Pro Bro and I consider myself pretty good at it. My concern is spring is almost here and I havent flown all winter. Are my expectations of my skills going to be accurate or is there a factor here I havent accounted for and I am going to be extremly suprised when I try to pull a hover out on the field for real.

Joe I have the exact questions. An answer from anyone who has experience in both would be great!

DAMN I am glad I am not the only one out there. Hopefully someone will be able to shed some light.

If you download the Extra 330L 33% Competition it will hover just fine for you. It is the one I use to hover it torque rolls, and flies knife edge real well too.

Although I'm not an expert, I can hover/harrier/TR, etc. Here's the biggest differences I notice:

There's seldom any wing rock in Realflight 3D type planes. Although some of the larger planes flown in real life (and electric foamies) may not rock their wings very much, planes under 30% are few and far between that don't have this issue. Some are fairly easy to deal with and others can get out of control fairly quickly.

The planes in RF seem to have a bigger "sweet spot" where they will start to torque roll, they're easier to keep there (especially true of most the planes you can download), and they don't spin very fast, making it easy to keep up with them. In real life some 40 size planes will spin like a top in a TR, and do so abruptly when you hit the sweet spot. Bout stained my shorts learning that one.

In RF there's absolutely no rudder coupling. A rarity in the real world, and a big downfall in realflight's design IMHO. Again, depending on the plane, in the real world this can go from no big deal to making things much more difficult.

In RF the ailerons don't work at 0 airspeed (are partially effective in real life due to prop blast). In general the wind effects and mass/thrust/inertia things that happen at slow/no airspeed are too easy in RF.

RF is by no means perfect when it comes to 3d, and some of the aftermarket downloadable planes do you no favors, but if you stick with a plane that will stall at a reasonable speed (not to slow), is fairly difficult to torque roll, and can't flat spin or do endless stationary waterfalls, it should be close enough to the real thing to prepare you to be able to do it in real life. It's just going to take more attention at the field, and you probably won't find it to be as easy. Hope that helps!

Actually that is the best explanation I have heard yet. I was using a little common sense when trying to compare my skills on the sim to real life and came to a lot of those conclusions myself. I figured on those downloadable planes that it couldnt possibly be that easy. However, I assumed I would have to step it up a bit so I wouldnt be sooo suprised at the field as i tried to compare the 2. I ask you, have you tried to 3D the stock aircraft on RF. I use the edge 540 right from the program no wing mods at all. The only thing I do is put in 3D throws in the control surfaces. THat goes for the extras and Caps. All from the stock set ups. I have gotten quite good at the stock edge, TR, Harriers, and even messing with some flat spins. In your opionion does the stock 540 react, fall off and or stall like the real ones do. Or at least very similar? In the simulator I feel that the edge is extremly touchy especially at stall speeds and full throttle blasts. You definatly cannot over react and jerk the sticks around to get out of a hover. I seem to think that as far as realism goes that would be the best example. If somebody said to me that they can hover a number of different STOCK aircraft from RF then I would assume they are pretty good at it.

Hovering a piper cub(not very realistic) I recently purchased aerofly pro, I practiced on it for a month or so and must say it hovers just like a real toc type 40%er, Aerofly pro is dedicated to 3d but also is most realistic with training and sport flying. Don't get me wrong I think G2 is a excellent simulator for someone who does not do any aerobatics, but in all honesty get Aerofly pro if you keep messing with those downloadable planes on G2 you are not getting any realistic 3d training at all, I have the expansion pack with Roland Matts 3W Extra 40%er and they told me that he personally set it up to his TOC plane well I was hesitate but it fly's identical to my buddies Carden 40%er...... thx

YES I unerstand that. Thas why I stated above that I used the stock set up from RF to learn on and I understand that any stock aircraft from RF is extremly hard to learn 3D on. Thats why basically I asked If I had the ability to 3D the STOCK edge from real flight should that be considered somewhat close to the real thing. If you dont know try it. Just pick the standard edge NOT one that you modify OR download. Try to hover it and 3D with it and then see if its close to the real thing.

I think the biggest issue is not 'if' you can hover an edge in RF2 but more the fact that you are hovering a plane governed by unrealistic laws of physics (such is the limitation of RF2 and its 3D aerodynamic physics).

This means that whilst it may be hard to do - you're getting used to controlling a plane in an unrealistic environment. I switched from RF2 to AFP and found them very different at stall speeds/snaps/hovering.

Just my opnion.

mark

OK that I understand and makes perfect sense. Now let me go one step further. In my opionion you cannot simulate real life in any simulator. It just doesnt happen however if your ability to adapt to a plane as quirky as the stock planes on RF and then swith to AFP. And make them work is it safe to assume that your ability to adapt and change on the real flight line will be relitivly painless and ultimatly rewarding? Taking into consideration that you WILL indeed see a difference. But you wont be as suprised to make the changes needed to make it all work.

Hovering is possible with many airplanes in RF G2.
.40 size Cap 232
Giant 540 Edge
Giant Extra
P-38 Believe it or not.
Sukhoi
And probably others.
It helps to use a backgound sky with clouds so you can tell which way the nose is falling.
Practice Practice Practice---TRAIN the BRAIN. Good Luck.

OK, I can see where you're coming from and your thinking behind it. Yes I agree that if you've become used to making rapid control inputs in all directions/combinations to keep a plane hovering etc then you may have a head start in trying it for real in as much as you are used to making control inputs without 'thinking'

I suppose it's a bit like learning to drive a car on ice. You'd learn to naturally change gear/use pedals and counteract big skids, slides and spins so the first time you drove on a normal road you'd find steering/braking etc a lot simpler.

I can't help still thinking thought that 3Ding stock planes will teach you control input awareness when the model is at different attitudes - I don't think you will be immediately able to torque roll/hover/harrier etc but you will be entering the right control inputs to correct any waywardness of the model.

Go out, get 3 mistakes high and try some 3Ding. Then let us know which simulator approach works best for you - will be interesting to see.

Rgds,
Mark

You dont even know how anxious I am to get out there and do just that. The weather factor for me has to be a bit better than it is right now though. Its happening, but SLOWLY. I will post again when I have come to a conclusion. Thanks for your imput.

Yeh Joe I know what you mean but I just mean in the long run everything with AFP will pay off, I see what you mean about the control input practice on G2 but!! if you practice the same you can adapt those "realistic" control inputs on a real airplane,,, hope I helped alittle Joe let us know what happens..

WILL DO

Next question- What planes on G2 are similar to there real counterparts? AND better yet who knows how to modify them to be so. I have had good luck modifing some of these to be very realistic compared to the REAL planes, but I have not owned many 3D capable planes. If I could find modifications or downloads that would be very close that would be a great help to me and others.

I posted that question to another thread and came to the conclusion that even the downloaded ones are not realistic in some instances but are in others. I have gone through countless downloades looking for thate plane that simulates all 3D aspects. But I have found from people who know how that they are way to easy and I also found out that the Stock planes on the program are way to difficicult.

Heres what I did I said the only thing real that RF is going to give you is familiarity with the attitude of the plane in a stall speed. So I took the Stock Edge 540 from the program modified its control surfaces for 3D and thas all. Then I proceeded to learn how to hover with it and go on from there. I figured if these planes were soooo difficult to 3D on if anyone could then adapting these skills to your real plane should be a little eaiser.

Now I can take that edge 540 STOCK and do all kinds of stuff with it including hovering and TR 6 inches above the ground, pull out and not twist it in or stall it more. Granted it may not be real but I have sharpened my skills so input corrections in a stall to where I can do it with out thinking. And from what I have read that is key to start learning to hover and basically do anything while your plane is in a stall state. GOOD LUCK.

Oh, Ps I have heard the Aero Flight Professional commonly refered to AFP in here is the absolute best simulator for 3D learning. Planes right from the program ready to learn on set up and all. I am looking into getting it soon. The lessons are there to teach you 3D too.

I just downloaded the CAP 232 Double Sized as mentioned in this thread. I realize that G2 isn't the best Sim for 3D (I learned to hover heli's and it is VERY close to the real deal there). It took me only like 20 minutes to get fairly good at hovering close to the deck. It just can't be that easy in real life, can it? I bought a U-CAN-DO 46 in the fall and only have a few engine break in flights on it so far, and am hoping to learn to hover that soon. I'm guessing it's too easy. Plus there's the real life pucker factor which you don't get in G2.

Try the STOCK Edge 540 no downloaded stuff. The characteristics in it may not be accurate but it is by far one of the hardest to hover and TR. It teaches you corrective inputs at a rate where you dont have a choice but to not think before you react. To me that is one if the building block fundamentals of learning to hover. Its stick imputs where you dont have to think about them. The next thing I found that particular plane helpful to do is when you get the hover down so that you can back the plane up to the ground and keep it a few inches off the ground, try to get yourself out of trouble with out crashing. When the plane falls off try to power up and out the where it wont twist in. I also think that the entry point to a hover takes some practice too. Getting the plane full verticle with out shooting to high. Just make sure on the Stock edge 540 you adjust your throws for 3D and THATS ALL the only mods I put in. If you get real good at that try to add some good stiff wind. Good Luck. Hope this helps.

I have a friend who has a Senior Telemaster with a Saito 100 and oversize control surfaces. Jaws drop everytime someone new comes to the field and see this big docil trainer suddenly go into a hover.

Well seasons getting good again weather seems like its starting to break. Time to take all of my winter knowledge on the Sim and put it to the test. I was an avid RF user and then got turned on to AFP. All I can say is man what a difference. You cannot even compare the 2. Learning to hover and TR all over again from what you are used to in RF. I am hooked on AFP and I love it. IMO I wouldnt use anything else. I tried to apply what I had learned on RF at the field as far as hovering and basic 3D manuvers and I found it quite difficult to say the least. The things you would of expected to be what you had learned wernt at all. I went back and started on AFP and pounded away at that for a GOOD 2 to 3 Months. I can honestly say that the characteristics in flight were extremly close. I was impressed not only with the sim but with my abilities at the field. Be confident but not cocky and you will have a good time. COME ON SUMMER !!!!!

I tried several different plane trying to hover but I was unsuccessful until I tried Ultimate . I don't like bi-planes but I have just fell in love with this plane. There one on the Realfilght swap page9 which you can try. The only problem I have noticed so far and I think other members have mentioned it is that the ailerons are very ineffective, just like not been there. As far as AFP goes, I have watched couple of demo videos, it has been incredible, planes go inside the visitor areas hover around the picnic tables, sometimes sit down for a drink, then take off , very impressive but I was wondering do the real plane can do than, I have been to several TOC's I tell you the best pilot in the world would be in awe what AFP can do.