Ron,

Sorry to hear of your disappointment. Here are some comments on your points:

1) You are correct that the switches may not be in a usual configuration for helis. The switches are primarily configured for fixed wing aircraft, with the landing gear switch in the top left. Of course, if you don't like the switch configuration, you may want to use your own transmitter instead of the TacCon controller.

2) We will review the blade slap sounds -- especially after a crash -- and fix that in a patch.

3) We've had a range of experienced heli pilots test fly the sim. It's tough to get every pilot to agree that *any* sim flies great for all aircraft -- especially with a given set of transmitter settings. Each pilot likes a different setting of expo, dual rates, mixing, etc and these settings do, of course, convey a different "feel". Also, if the particular installation of the sim you were flying was mis-calibrated or didn't have the 1.0.3 patch applied, your concerns could easily be due to a mis-calibration.

4) Not sure how to address your concern for #4.

5) You must have your graphics setting *WAY* down. The wheels are indeed round, although the lowest detail level does have low polygon counts to allow slow computers to run the sim. Try a high graphics detail setting. Also, the control surfaces do indeed deflect. I'm unsure as to why you were having these problems, but it does tend to point to a mis-calibration. Install the 1.0.3 patch and recalibrate. Then try again. You may be surprised to see the results. We did have one customer that complained about helis issues. It turned out that after applying the patch and recalibrating, things flew fine, and he didn't complain any more. He even said that things flew nice afterwards.

6) Most users have reported significantly better frame rates with FS One than G3, so you may want to consider updating your graphics driver or changing some of your graphics settings. What are the specs of the computer you are using? Are you sure that the computer meets the minimum specifications for FS One? What sort of graphics card are you using?

7) It does take a bit of time to load things for the first time. Part of this is due to the detail in the aerodynamics files. Part of it is the amount of graphics data. If you load the same aircraft and fly at a different field, you should see load times reduced, as the operating system will have some of the files cached. This can help reduce load times.

If you provide some details about the computer you are using, we'll try to help you tweak things to get a better experience.

Not trying to be a pain, but why hook up my transmitter if I bought one with the set? And the throttle hold switch is SO important and V curves are so important when flying a heli...Much more important than retracts on a few planes IMO.

Cool.

OK, but I have never been able to get my Blade CP to do Piro flips (Not even tried, don't think it would survive)....And I could easily with the Blade on FS1.


Am I the only one that really didn't understand how to modify the models? They seem to all be ratios.

The Sim was on my LHS's computer. I will recomend that he work on it, but the same computer ran other Sims fine.

I understand that new products have issues. I am sure you are working on them.

Hello,

Does anyone know where I can buy FSOne. I live in the UK and it wont be in the UK even if we're lucky by Christmas, I have checked with the only UK distributor here. I have also tried buying it online from horizonhobby but they wont sell anything over the value of $50 through a PO box (which I have) and there is no facility to make an international order. I can't wait until Christmas to get my hands on this bad boy, it's as simple as that....

Can anyone make any suggestions? Does anyone know of any retailer that has this in stock and will send something work $200 to a PO Box, or at the very least send it internationally?

Cheers,

Craig.

Hi Halodin,

I live in Australia and got mine from www.hobbyzone.com. Don't know if they ship to PO Boxes though.

I'll try them thanks!

Overall, I really like the sim. I'm having some of the same problems listed above however. The two that I find most odd are the relative lack of rudder authority during knife-edge flight, while concurrently being overly sensitive during rolling harriers. Just odd.

The other issue I have with the physics is while hovering or torquing, with even the slightest angle off the vertical, the model accelerates in that direction over the ground in a very unrealistic way. With only 5-10 degrees off of vertical, the model moves over the ground like it is in a 45 degree harrer.

Again, so far I'm satisfied, just a couple of small physics issues that I don't really understand.

Scott

I agree about the hovering issue but forgot to mention it in my post. It almost acts like there is a wind blowing even when the wind is completely still. It makes it hard to hover or torque roll in one spot. This is not how it is in real life. I'm glad several folks are seeing the same issues in regard to physics on this sim. Otherwise you think you might be the only one that sees these and nothing will be done to correct.

Found another area that isn't right. Inverted and upright flat spins with the Edge and Ultimate (150cc). It basically won't do one where it wraps up in the spin. Its sort of like the rudder doesn't have the authority there. I haven't tried tinkering with the CG, so that might help.

Scott

I have a quick question, While flying the scaled aircraft they don't seem to incur any crash damage. I've looked through the online FAQ and did not see any mention on this subject. Anyone know why this is?

Glad you're satisfied w/ it. We're striving for that.

But I'll say you've got me stumped. There's a lot of video of the Edge
540 hovering in the FSOne videos online, e.g.

http://www.fsone.com/Features/Gallery.aspx#Videos
http://horizonhobby.cachefly.net/FSOne/fs1_hovering.wmv

and it's not going into a harrier when getting off axis.

Your other comment above about spins is a head scratcher too. In the
sim, there's some lesson's from QQ w/ the Edge 540 in inverted and
upright flat spins (c.g. was moved aft some). Also, in the recordings
section, there's some demos of the Ultimate TOC at the Eagle Sky pano
and it's doing blenders.

So I'm wondering

- if you have a good calibration.
- if you've flown the real Edge 540 33% or Ultimate TOC 46%
- if you have experience w/ big airplanes

The answer might be 'yes' to all of these, so I'm back to scratching my
head.

One thing worth noting is that in real life when hovering it's done up
close. When it's close (or even 100 ft away) there's a lot of depth
perception cues that help to keep things in check. In the sim there is
no depth perception, and this does make it harder to hover in a sim.

The second thing is the bigger the planes, the harder it is to correct
them when they do go off axis. With little airplanes a flick of the
rudder can put it back right, but big planes have more inertia relative
to the aerodynamic forces that can be generated, and this means when
they start to lean their going somewhere usually. You'll notice that
when full scale airplanes do torque rolls they do it pointed perfectly
straight up - little room for error or else it will peal off. This is a
result of the aero forces going as the square of the span (area
dependent) while the inertia forces go as the cube of the span (volume
related).

If you have any insight here, we're listening ....

Michael

When an airplane is scaled up/down from scratch in the sim (i.e. by
making a copy and going from there), then the parts will break just like
the original.

But when the airplanes get small, the broken parts can go unstable
simply because their 'time constant' is a lot smaller. It's a numerical
problem pure and simple.

So ... to avoid this in the sim we have turned off broken parts on the
small scaled down airplanes that come with FS One when you install. The
larger scaled airplanes in the sim retain their ability to break up.

If you make a new scaled down airplane from one of the originals, then
the parts will break off, and you might see the numerical instability
take hold ... or let's say 'cut loose'! If that happens, then just hit
'Esc' and click 'Fly' again to restart.

Michael

aviti and sukhoi26mx -

Here's an idea. Make a copy of the Edge 540 33%, and then in the aero editor increase the prop normal force scale factor. It's in this section:

Set mNormalForce_UserFac to a value of 1.2

There is some justification to doing this (increasing the prop normal force).

Let me know if this changes the rudder stuff you're commenting on.

Michael

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the response. Been flying for 23 years, full-scale competition pilot (not that it matters), currently flying five different 50-150cc models, and about 30 smaller ones, with experience with both models in question. Guess I'm a junkie of sorts. Anyway, experience isn't lacking from my perspective.

To me, in hover, the simulation is moving around laterally over the ground dramatically more than in real life. I didn't say it was going into a harrier, but rather that the model was moving over the ground faster than it should with small deviations from vertical (i.e. moving at nearly harrier speed over the ground). On the spins, my 30-40% models wrap up tight, especially inverted, and the sim just doesn't reflect that at all. Likely it is my setup. I'll try your adjustment and also bringing the CG aft.

Thanks Michael.

Scott

Michael - I agree 100% with what Scott says here. It's like the plane is drifting excessively when you deviate a just a couple degrees from perfectly upright. Again, I have a 33% Edge and it will torque roll in one spot so much easier than FSOne that there is no comparison. With the limited elevator and rudder authority and the tendency to drift, it is nearly impossible to maintain a good torque roll in FSOne.

Like I said before, I like the sim and will probably pick up a copy next month. My comments are intended to help with possible improvements to the product, not to bash your efforts. To be honest I have practiced torque rolls so much with other sims, foamys, profiles, giants that I really don't need a sim to help me with them at this point. But I hate to see people learning a new maneuver get frustrated and think they will never get it in real life. Here's a secret that maybe some of the giant scale pilots may not want to get out (just kidding)....a lightweight giant scale plane is extremely easy to hover and torque roll. I think the sim shoudl reflect that. Some of the sims are too easy with certain planes so I realize its a balancing act.

Thanks for the input. Cogitating (more) on this stuff.

I'd like to know if tweaking mNormalForce_UserFac changes the impression any, e.g. knife edge flight.

Michael

MSelig,
I was at my LHS the other day and they were demoing the FSOne sim. One of the local flyers wanted to change the prop on one of the sim planes and was confronted with gibberish to effect the change. The advice you just gave:

-------------
Here's an idea. Make a copy of the Edge 540 33%, and then in the aero editor increase the prop normal force scale factor. It's in this section:


[PropData]
mNormalForce_UserFac
mPFactor_UserFac
mPropNormalforceMethod12Weight
mPropNormalforceMethod12Bias


Set mNormalForce_UserFac to a value of 1.2
------------

reminded me of that. What does the above recommended change mean? mNormalForce_UserFac? What the hell is that? I fully realize that is the field name in the database that changes a specific aspect of the prop based on a numerical value.... but that's about the dumbest thing I've ever seen included in a sim. That really needs to be changed.

As an example, when you want to change a prop in G3 you put in the diameter, pitch, type (like Mejzlik narrow carbon fiber) and the prop is changed accordingly. That makes sense to an RC flyer. Obscure database field references with non-intuitive numerical values make zero sense without a conversion table to relate numeric values to real-world measurements. Why didn't the authors allow real world values to be used? Or at least provide the conversion table so if we really wanted to spend the time doing manual coversions we could?

I bought this sim and although I may have missed it, I have not found a table that would allow me to interpret what your advice of "Set mNormalForce_UserFac to a value of 1.2" even means. What exactly does it mean by the way?

Please don't take this wrong, but this really needs to change for this sim to be useful to many flyers I know. Once they saw the mess that constitutes the editing features of this sim they were totally turned off to the idea of purchasing it. They were like "all I wanted to do was change the prop...what does all that mean?".

Oh...and did I really see that the prop diameter field is entered in feet? Like I have to calculate how many feet equals a 10" prop?

The sim would be a lot more useful if average flyer could easily edit planes. Just a thought.

John

jtg13 -

If you want to change the prop, click the Propulsion button in the menu and then pick the name of the propeller in the "Select Propeller" list. The names of all the props in the sim are listed in the drop down menu.

The other items mentioned above were not for general consumption here. It's for people who have the sim, and I'm interested in getting feedback from the people w/ experience w/ these particular planes. When they click on items in the list a text box appears that explains what the parameter does in plain English (in aerodynamic terms).

[Edit - Ok, so you have the sim. You should see the text box when you edit the parameter above in the Aerodynamics section. Propeller normal force is the side force that a propeller produces in yaw, i.e. knife edge flight or sideslip.]

Michael

Michael,
Thanks for the reply and the explanation of "Set mNormalForce_UserFac to a value of 1.2". It seems this sim really has a lot of depth in aerodynamic editing, but it's still confusing without more details.

I've seen the available props in the propulsion menu, but the choices are quite limited. There really is a need for average people to be able to easily tailor the sim to their needs. This really applies to every aspec of the sim, I was just using the prop size as an example. Listing the actual database field names as the editing parameter is counterintuitive. This is especially true when the database field names are not described anywhere, unless I've missed it (entirely possible I guess).

I'm not really bashing the sim, I'm just providing feedback for what I believe to be a significant deficiency. I can say for sure that it's confusing enough that several of my friends opted for the G3 for this reason.

John

I have duplicated this post and used it to start a thread of it's own within this forum. FSOne and thermal glidering is the thread.

In the terrific new FAQ, there is a helpful section on thermal flying including a Blue Dot cheat map of the thermals in just one of the thermal sets. Otherwise it's totally up to you to find them.

I've flown the Ascent model there since that's a plane I'm familiar with in the real world. It's tough for me to find and to climb in the thermals even if you know generally where they are. They seem so tiny compared with the size and turning ability of the plane. If I fly high where the thermals are larger in diameter, I lose track of where I am down on the ground, where the map is useful, so so far I cannot find the thermals when I'm at high altitude.

I've used the Variometer, both audio and on-screen. It definitely works, it helps, and the thermals do exist. But realize I likely cannot afford one in the real world. So I don't feel like spending too much time learning and practicing on something that I cannot afford. Actually the same goes for the bombs and the rockets in that game part of this simulation. But I digress...

So far I've not managed to see the visual signs of touching, entering, or leaving a thermal with the Ascent. Neither in person when another person was successfully thermaling, nor in this great simulation. Perhaps the Ascent is just not that good a plane for this type thermaling?

Anyone here played with the FSOne thermaling much or enough to have an comments or suggestions on using it?

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_42...12/key_/tm.htm

I am having exactly the same problem as decsribed by manny in the pages linked above. Any thing been done to show how to fix this USB problem publicly?

Just curious. While there are plenty of planes in the release FS one, whats the time frame for some add on planes to be released?

aviti and sukhoi26mx -

I've done some hover tweaking on the Edge 540 and Ultimate TOC (big planes). If you want to test the tweaks, here's a blurb on how to get and apply the files:

http://www.inertiasoft.com/fsonefaq/#B1001-FS1

I think the changes are good.

Michael

Hi Michael,

I don't know what you changed, but the Ultimate is better than it was. Still drifting excessively in hover/torque, but the rollers feel better, and the hover/torque roll are improved. Whatever you changed, the hover/torque still moving around more than it should, so maybe change it further in that direction?

The Edge won't load for me. Same technique used as the Ultimate, but the Edge crashes my machine and returns the entire system to Windows.

Scott

BTW, thanks for being so responsive. Many companies would simply ignore or not participate in the discussion, so I really appreciate your activity on the boards...

OK. I just killed my connector.. I have been using this for 2 weeks with no problems connection wise and No it will not respond to the controlls. At first when it started I could wiggle the PS2 connector on the FSone box and it would work now it will do nothing.. I can't go witout flyin' for over 12 hours or I will go into DTsss... PLEAASE help!! Can I get one of the 2nd player connectors and it will work..??

LATER

Scott (sukhoi26mx) -

Ok, I had a similar problem testing the new Edge 540 file (once), and
then it worked the second time I downloaded it. To avoid all of this, I
zipped up the files and posted those. Hopefully, you have a way to
unzip.

The FAQ is now updated w/ the zip files, and there are two versions now
based on your comments above. Version 1 is the first one you tried;
version 2 takes things further. The link again:

http://www.inertiasoft.com/fsonefaq/#B1001-FS1

The version 2 files are one step further. I think the changes are still
in the plausible range from the aero side.

A couple things:

- In setting up an aero model the goal is to 'hit all the corners' as
closely as possible, and not one thing alone. So that's a bit of a
balancing act most of the time.

- Make sure you're thinking about these planes where you're testing and
not something like a Yak. A Yak is going to fly differently, and in
some respects better (e.g. in hovering and harrier rollers I think).
Of course, a monowing is going to fly VERY differently from a biplane.
Given your background, I think you have these things in check, but it
can be tricky switching between airplanes.

- I'm assuming you've got the c.g. where you want it, the expos set to
your preference and hooked up using a real Tx w/ top notch gimbals.

BTW - My goal in replying on these forums is to do a little bit of
'product support' to help people out and at the same time populate the
FAQ w/ good questions/answers. And I'm also interested in constructive
feedback (like I've been getting, e.g. yours). But reading some of the
FS One stuff on these forums takes a thick skin sometimes (ugh) ...

Michael