Zeque Build GLow Powered

Throttle servo. I like to use a small, fast and precise servo for the throttle rather than suddenly become fiscally responsible..cheap and use the Futaba 9650 digital. The servo comes with mounting lugs on the body to allow for a variety of mounting methods...but you have to cut them off without cutting the servo wires. Yes, I have cut them "clean" off...very proud moment.

The photos show me scribing the case, breaking with a pair of needle nose pliers and final pass of a mini file completes the task in less than (5) minutes.


Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
Team YS Performance

Zeque Build Glow Powered

Mounting the MK remote glow plug system. The Zeque has a very tall or deep fuselage profile. How do you access the glow plug? MK makes a product to resolve the problem. The unit features a plastic bodied receptacle mounted with (2) tiny bolts into captured nuts, an aluminum trim ring and a male plug to be connected to a voltage source. Per many MK products, the modeler is left to figure out "how" to make it work.

The real challenge is mounting the recepticle securly while "centering" the trim ring for proper function. The trim ring has a tiny lip to grab. My experience with the unit is that the wires WILL break off. I suggest you replace the ground wire with a silicone wire used for R/C cars and purchase the Tettra silicone wire with protective shield and more robust glow plug attachment clip. Like many special parts, it is not required, adds weight (about (1) ounce) and installation complexity and the potential for maintenance. If you make the modifications that I am suggesting there is NO maintenance.

I make a (2) 1/8" craft plywood mounting plate/spacer first. A note regarding tools to build toy airplanes. Drill bits, drill bits and more drill bits. When I was a kid, I had a sharpened nail to bore all of the holes I needed. I suggest you go to a Northern Tool and Supply and purchase a complete set of lettered, numbered and fractional drill bits for about $80.00. You will save time, produce better parts and wonder how you ever modeled without them.

Accurately determine where you will mount it, triple check considering fuel lines, excess exposure to the elements. I prefer to use blue painters tape to mark lines and bore holes in fragile surfaces. The photos should make sense. I used a black Sharpie for color, green ZAP for fuel proofing and ZAP A DAPPA GOO for mounting to the airplane and the little aluminum trim ring. The white washers are from the back of the EZ connectors (PLEASE NEVER USE EZ-CONNECTORS ON PRIMARY CONTROL SURFACES!!!!!).

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
Team YS Performance

Zeque Build GLow Powered

The tail wheel installed. I drilled one more hole in the MK unit and it weighs 9 grams without the screws.


Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
Team YS Performance

Hey Rusty I am also using the MK remote start for my Genisis. I removed the blue housing, and the heat shrink, applied JB weld to the connection and the added another heat shrink tube to the connector. Then I also added a 1/16 inch piece of medium fuel tubing over the tip of the glow plug, that way once you push down the tip, it will be somewhat soft mounted and should hopefully last longer. By the way I got this information from a thread on RCU a while back, so it is not my info, but figured I should pass it along. See you tommorrow.

I'm struggling with the Lipo thang. Is it that Lipo set-ups (reg+pack) are dramatically lighter than NiMH or NiCAD? How many flights can you get from a 1320mAH pack? That capacity seems low for the number of digital servos we use. Does the regulator add anthoer failure point?

Zeque Build Glow Powered

Engine installation...The Zeque is designed to use the YS soft mount with the available stand-offs. It is the lightest of the mounts I have used (see previous posts on this thread) and offers a large amount of adjustability. My assumption is that this model will require little to zero adjustments from stock...the engine rotates exactly about the centerline of the crank shaft which mnakes sense. (I am not an engineer or claim to be an expert about physics).

Additionally, I am using the (new to USA) Hatori header support which is yet another fine piece of not modestly priced accessory which one may not need, adds installation complexity which IS and I EXPECT to reduce my header maintenance to zero.

I am leaving for Phoenix (see Phoenix thread) in the morning (2/15/2007) with this COMPLETED model and hope to continue to post all of the details prior to my departure (returning 2/28/07), although I may simply run out of time. To this point I have covered many of the components and installation techniques of potential interest.

The thread will feature all relevant details until completetion including a detailed flight report! As Derek Koopowitz (NSRCA President)often writes...exiting the box.

(Some of my photos still seem to be out of focus.)[&o]


Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
Team YS Performance

Zeque Build Glow Powered

Regarding Lipo batteries...I am very slow to embrace new control system and battery technologies. I became VERY comfortable with them last summer at the NATS flying with Rusty Fried. Rusty tends to have a lot of conviction (nice way of saying stubborn) and IS a fierce competitor who has no patience for anythiong that would risk his models (my opinion). He had been using the ThunderPower lipos in his electric models. Others had told me about them, but I need to see and get comfortable in my own way.

Dave Lockhart, fantastic sportsman, modeler, and F3A pilot uses a redundant 480 mah (2) cell lipo and dual regulators to meet his expectations of comfort.

I understand an electric F3A model will only use about 45 to 50 mah per flight where as a glow model may use 3 to 4 times this amount. I will measure voltages after each flight until I develop experience.

Weight is probably NOT a primary consideration due to the added requirement of a regulator which is an entirely other subject and area of contention. A newly charged ni-cad, clearly is "hot" the first flight or so...recent history has had me use a regulator to remove the airplanes "I had 24 cups of coffee feel". Curiously the photos of the Japanese models show nicads...factory stock varieties. Odd to me, a crazy tail wheel and still the use of ni-cads?

One perspective...


Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
Team YS Performance

Additionally, I am using the (new to USA) Hatori header support which is yet another fine piece of not modestly priced accessory which one may not need, adds installation complexity which IS and I EXPECT to reduce my header maintenance to zero.


Rusty,

Don't be fooled by the header brace, I've been using mine for over 6 months now. Yes, it reduces the chance of header shifting around, but the hex nut that tightens the brace to the engine will come loose, I've to keep checking it every 20 - 30 flights.

Adrian

In case you guys don't get over to see my electric Zeque thread, I received this C/G drawing from Mr. Suzuki (Zeque Designer) of S2 Product in Japan and will post it here as well.

To ual767
Can you give me Mr Suzuki E mail Address.

Thankyou
Fran

The contact info for Suzuki is at the bottom of this web link.

http://www1.odn.ne.jp/%7Echm30860/or...formation2.htm

I was wondering if there is any advantage to using the spring loaded pipe mounting system that I've seen used for holding the Hatori 821 in place as opposed to the pipe mounting brackets(silicone tubing system) that is already provided with the Hatori 821 pipe ??? Seems like alot of extra money if no advantage or need.....please advice.

Doc

The spring loaded pipe mounting system is a quick release system, you just squeeze the two springs on the side of the pipe and you can take the pipe away from the header. The one that came with the Hatori pipe require loosening of screws. Well worth the extra spending.

Adrian

Adrian,
Thanks for the info. I think I might go with that.

Doc

Rusty be warned when mounting your motor with the YS mount to your Zeque. It appears the rails were not jigged properly and there is a slight offset. You're going to have to make different spacer washers to offset the misalignment on your Zeque. Appears to be a manufacture error by Oxai. Mickey spent an entire evening analyzing and correcting this problem on my plane.

Doc

Hi Doc,

The YS-mount fits perfectly in the Zeque, you just have to make sure you use the Super Mount brackets, which the model was designed for. Picture attached.

No Mola your wrong I just talked to Mickey. They have the super mount that you show in the picture. The problem is the rails are not set right on Doc's plane and others who have the plane are experiencing the same problem. Except Chris who placed the Axi in his. (Good move Chris)!
Mickey had to shim the YS mount to bring the spinner backplate in line with the nose. It required a .100 shimm on the back of the mount and a .062 shim on the front. Oxai made a mistake. The manufacturer is going to be notified of the problem. It's fairly easy to fix but surprising when 1st discovered.
Good news is the early flight reports on the plane seen very positive. This was reported on the Electric Zeque thread. Mike

This change could be by design. I have Rusty Dose's Zeque in my shop right now. When I get home from flying tonight I will look at this issue. I think perhaps there could have been a chnage in the amount of down thrust needed after the protype was made. Oxai then lowered the beams to allow shims to adjust this. If they put the rails to high (looking from the bottom) in the fuse then you can't adjust anything without grinding the YS Super Mount spacers. But by lowering the beams in the engine area now you can add shims to get the downthrust correct.

I have a spare engine and YS mount and will stick it in Rusty Dose's model tonight.

We have been really busy with setting up the field for the PHX event, and also out practicing.
I have spent all weekend at the flying field marking the box lines and installing poles. They are correct and setup just like the NATS. Boy its sure is nice to be practicing inside the box.


I'll let you guys know what I find.


Troy

Hi mups53,

I did my installation this past weekend, and I needed nowhere near 0.1" of a shim to get it aligned. As Troy says I think Oxai deliberately sets the plate a little too high in the fuselage so that you have to shim the mount very slightly to get everything to line up, this is much easier than if you had to grind off some material from the YS-mount brackets.

I installed 1mm (0.04" ) shims on the rear brackets of mine to get things to line up like shown in the attached photos. I'm using a 75mm spinner in the photo, and as you can see it is actually a tiny bit too large in diameter, 74mm would probably have been perfect.

I don't know from which batch my Zeque was, but it was delivered to Oxai Europe just after New Years. Maybe Oxai has modified this part of the model along the way.

Well, Troy flew this today in REALLY windy conditions, and all I can say is WOW!! Great presentation and flew great, straight off the board. I'll let Troy and Rusty talk more about it, but it was very impressive.

Arch

Rusty, having flown both Electrics and Glow, I am not sure about this.

If you run a BEC System (Battery Eliminator Circuit) on the Electric version where the Rx/Servos are run off the main LiPo pack, you could use say 6000mAh to fly a schedule. NB. This is NOT recommended for larger models, especially F3A - use a seperate Rx Battery pack. F3A stresses Electric gear, and it's comforting to know that you will still have control if something happens to the main power batteries . . even if the model is on fire ! ! [X(].

Whereas, on a Glow model you are only powering the Rx/Servos, so I would expect . . using the same RX/Servo set-up . . the current draw on the 'flight pack' would be the same as that of the Electric version using a seperate Rx battery ! ?

I use LiPo's to power ignition and Rx in my Gasser and they work fine . . very relieable, and light (2200mAh 7.4V is about 75gms/2.6oz.). As regulators are required to step the voltage down, I didn't fit them to my Pattern plane because I am nervous of interference from any RF given off by the regulator. Having said that, I haven't had a glitch yet in the Gasser (and there are two regs in that), so my opinion may change

ALSO, my experience is that "measuring voltage" is not the best way of getting a feel for battery consumption on LiPo's . . they will hold a pretty steady voltage until nearing the end of their useable capacity. A better way (my opinion) is to charge the pack after every flight and see the amount of mA that go back into the pack. Most LiPo field chargers these days will give this information. On an analogue system using 6 servos, this could be about 100mA . . on a Digital set-up it will be more, maybe 170mA per flight. On your 1350mAh pack (reputable brand?) it should have at least 1200mAh of useable capacity, however I personally woudn't use more that 800mA before charging (maybe 4 flights?). The current draw (Amps) would not be an issue really as even an average LiPo of this capacity should easily handle 13A and more.

Actually, Rusty is right. A glow powered F3A plane typically uses about 200-250mah per flight. I know that many people (including me) have checked and come up with that figure. Of course this is the power drawn by the receiver and servos. An electric powered plane will pull roughly 40-50 mah per flight to power the receiver and servos. A factor of about 4 or 5 times less power than the glow. This too have been checked and confirmed by many people. This is a valid comparison since all large electric planes like our F3A planes use a separate battery to power the servos and receiver just like a glow model does.
The difference in current draw is due to the difference in vibration levels and the amount of work the servos have to do to keep themselves centered and counter the vibration pulses. If you want an example, look at the servos on a big 35-40% gas plane and how much they move on the ground when the plane it at idle just to counteract the motor vibration.

WOW . . fair call. I would have never thought that vibration would have used that much power. I know Electric power is smooth . . you can 'feel' it in the air . .

Good info., however I am still surprised by such a small current draw on the electric (must check mine again) . . that is near to nothing !!

The real advantage is the size of your lipo to run the receiver can get pretty small and save you a lot of weight. I have a 2STP730 mil pack in the Impact and it would last for a full day with no problem. I run a Fromeco 2600 Lion in the my glow plane. Mike

Zeque Build GLow Powered

An update...

I returned yesterday from a marvelous experience in Phoenix. I promised to complete the Zeque prior to the Phoenix trip and allow others to fly it. I took about (30) photos of the project prior to leaving and lost them all in the download. I have taken new photos and will post and comment as time allows in the next few days.

Quickly, the model was flown (4) times the first day including the test flight in verrrry windy and gusty conditions. Troy Newman was given the test flight opportunity about 30 seconds before lift-off. Yes, he had a big smile and an even bigger smile as we flew the model for the first flight which was about (10) minutes.

Here are a few of the details:

Weight without fuel: 9 pounds 14.5 - 15 ounces.
CG: Not measured, using Mr. Suzuki's components and locations
Battery: Thunder Power 1320 mah (put back about 650 mah after four flights AND set-up) next (4) flights of 9 minute duration required 450 mah using Astro charger.
Fuel: Cool Power 30% Helicopter
Prop: APC 17 x 12

Initial control deflection/expo:
elevator: 12 degrees/35%
Aierons: 15 degrees/40%
rudder: large futaba wheel and MK medium horns/50%

Initial flight feedback: Pretty terrific! See previous posts, reduce control throws. Too windy to verify mix...maybe none required...

Flights 2 and 3: I was pilot. Took off and flew, no trim or get "cozy" passes and flew P-07. Tracked exceptionally well in windy and gusty conditions. Rolls very well, snaps clean and solid, presents very well and other than being very sensitive, a joy to fly.

Flight 4: Brett Wickizer. Ask Brett

Flight 5: Mark Leseberg...yes this IS a story. Mark came by on Saturday afternoon to visit and asked if he would scribe, while I judged a round of Masters and he graciously agreed. For interested parties who have not met Mark, he is a first class individual who has a very gifted pair of hands. I offered him a flight on the Zeque and he smiled and said yes. Well, despite my bad form in starting the model prior to the last flight of Advanced was completed, was treated to a display of the models capabilities! Mark has a unique set-up preference including "3-D" rates as "normal" for ailerons and a more sensitive elevator than most of us would use for snap or spin mode. He thought the ailerons and elevator were about right...validating the need to slooowww everything down. The crowd was treated to a collection of lovely manuevers including rolling circles, loops and high speed snaps and rolls. After landing, Mark looked me in the eyes, smiled and said that it is a very good airplane.

Flight 6 and 7: Arch Stafford. I encouraged Arch to fly my brand new Focus II (YS-160 DZ) for the contest which he masterfully flew with my very soft Futaba stock 12Z stick springs (more later) and flew the model 4 - 5 times prior to the contest flights. I DID NOT charge the receiver battery prior to Sunday's flights and we lost the model on the landing approach (round 4, I believe he won the round with a "0" on landing).

I encouraged Arch to fly rounds 5 and 6 with the Zeque. I believe he was winning the event by a very small margin with the Focus II proving to me the competitiveness and the very relevant capabilities of the Focus II design. My FLY RC Magazine Focus II and Beryll review idea hoped that someone would fly the model in the contest.

Anyway... I called for Arch for rounds 3 and 4 with the Focus II and 5 and 6 with the Zeque. He flew both models very well and "made friends" (Dave Guerin term) with them quickly.

Flight 8: I flew P-07 again and continued to enjoy the models ability to draw very nice lines, carve radii without much effort. Reduced AFR by 10% on ailerons and elevator, moved rudder to 60% expo, modified throttle curve.

Flight 9: Brett Wickizer. Brett added a new set-up and reduced throws across the board to better understand the models characteristics versus Troy's Oxai XX+ he had also flown. Ask Brett.

My initial feedback of my flying is positive and my impression is very good. Like all of you, one has a very high expectation of performance and appeal based on the investment.

I had the additional opportunity to test fly (3) brand new models last week including a Piedmont Focus II (YS 160 DZ), Oxai-Beryll (Hacker C50 14XL Comp, APC 20 x 15, TP 5300 mah) and the Zeque. In my opinion, the Focus II was 99% trimmed in (4) flights and remains a very capable model in all classes and P-07 and therefore is the best value. The electric powered Beryll allowed me to be more patient (a real challenge for me) and draws beautiful lines and is equally at home with P-07 and F-07. I had never flown an electric F3A model and am pleased with the relative value (assuming $6,000 can be considered a value). The Zeque may very well be the current greatest "bright and shiny object" and may be considered a relative value.

Troy Newman completed the D.E.P.s pushrod installation with expected precision. Properly done, this is an excellent mechanism to control your elevators. Incidentally, the temperature varied from 40 degrees in the AM to 70 in the afternoon with no noticable trim changes...Thank you Troy and Arch for completing the DEPS and the reinstallation of the motor and header.

DOC: regarding the use of the cool pipe mount...the primary feature to me is that it pushes the mounting point forward, in front of the landing gear where as my experience with the included mount requires mounting part of the unit on top of the landing gear (Scandalous).

Photos and text to follow,


Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
Team YS Performance