Hey guys, well Ive finished the plane and the CG is right at 5" so I am good there but the onw thing I have an issue with is that the lateral balance is pretty bad. I moved everything over as far as possible but it still needs about oz on the Right wing tip to be perfectly balanced. Any suggestions. I really hate to add weight or cut covering to put in wieght. But it will never do good hovering or tracking with it that bad, so I have to do somthing.

Thank you,
Need all the info possible

allyric...

I don't think you really have much choice. You need to laterally balance all airplanes. At least I do. I usually take a stick on weight and just stick it to the wing tip. Then I take a small square piece of matching covering and iron over it. Leaves an obvious lump but it's hard to see unless you are really looking for it. The plane will fly much better if you balance it.

5" on CG is a very good place to start. You'll probably want to go back a 1/2" or so after you get used to the plane.

Good luck. I hope you get that baby in the air soon.

Thanks
Barry

Man...

I just found out it's our club fly in tomorrow and I'm not going to be able to fly. Dang. Work is getting in my way.

thanks
Barry

Hey Hero, it is definetely a small world. I am trying to remember the date, but I think I started at IBM in June of 97, on the Lucent contract. I got shipped out to Jersey to learn one of the help desks out there. Funny timing, I just got a call from someone I worked with who is going to be in my area of New York this week, hadnt talked to him in like 7 years. I left IBM to move to upstate NY for a girl, good thing we wound up getting married.

That is a great field you got there. My field is a stip in a farmers field that we keep mowed. I was spoiled when I flew out there off the paved runway. I think that might of been when I decided I had to move back.

Well I am glad my membership is safe[8D]

I was thinking about the Saito 1.25. I think that would be a great engine for the showtime. I was thinking the 1.00 since its $60 less and supposed to be a good combination. How much does the YS 1.10 go for? Like you said though there is always the 1.50 and that is only $30 more than the 1.25.

sctcrash...

The YS110s are rarely available. But right now they are available at Cental Hobbies. They sell for about $325.

The Saito 100 is not enough engine for the Showtime. At least I don't think so. The Saito 125 or 150 would be excellent choices as well as the YS110. The YS adds the advantage of a pump to allow the tank on the CG. I also think the YS is a better engine in the higher locations because of the supercharging effect.

Any of the above engine except the Saito 100 would be excellent choices for the Showtime. It's gonna weigh just under nine pounds. Gave or take depending on which engine.

Thanks
Barry

i dont know how the weights of the engines will effect the cg of the showtime, but if i were gonna put a 150 on it id just go ahead and put the 180(31oz) on it because it only weighs 1oz more than the 150(30oz)
go for the extra power always if weight permits, you will always be glad you did on a 3D plane[8D]

gjeffers...

That's a good point. I always forget about that 180. Vertually the same weight and quite a bit more power. The ones I've seen at our club really put out.

Did you get any flying in today?

THanks
Barry

yes Barry, went out about 700am, starting to get a little nice around here(about 72) in the am.
got in 3 flights with the 60 before a guy showed up a little interested in planes and had no idea what they were capable of (i amazed him) left saying he may have to get one (heard that before) but maybe he will show back up, told him not to buy nothing till he talked to me again if he was really interested.

well its back up to your neck of the woods, leaving for Ogden this morning[:@] wont be back home till friday.

and yes, the 180 is the only way to go for a 120 size

catch ya all next weekend!!

gjeffers...

Good luck, and be safe.

Thanks
Barry

gjeffers...

Yeah, I get a few people at our field that show mild interest in getting into flying. Usually a father/son combo. It almost always ends with them not getting anything. Not sure why. Maybe the expense. Maybe the time. I know for me I would want to spend the time with my sons. That's sorta how I got started, but my sons quit.

Anyways, it's a good hobby. Interesting, educational, fun, time consuming and expensive. But what better to spend your money on?

Thanks
Barry

I have a 1.25 on my ST. I would not got any smaller. It is barely enough engine for this plane. The best prop I have found is the APC 16.5x5w. It will hover around half throttle but the pull outs are nothing compared to my UCD with the 100. I would love to try a 180 in the ST, maybe someday.

Well I've been flying my 46 DO with the Saito 100 quite a bit and I've gotten much more comfortable with the way it flies with the extra power.
I do have a question for you guys though, I can't seem to get it to flatten out in a spin either up right or inverted and adding throttle only speeds up the spin but doesn't flatten it at all. I seem to remember reading somewhere on here that the CG location can affect how well the plane flat spins but I don't remeber if the CG needs to be to the front or rear. My CG is at 6.25" behind the leading edge which I know is more than is recommened in the manual but my plane flies and lands great so I left it there. I did also have to reduce the elevator throw on high rates because the plane would snap out of a tight loop on high rates.

If anyone has any input on the CG or any other suggestion on what I can do to get it to flatten out please let me know.

I could get mine to flat spin. Since my plane is in three peices I cant check my CG, but I believe I was flying with it at about 5 1/4. I had it back around 6 and didnt like the way the plane flew as much. I could hover great and do blenders and flat spins at 5 1/4. The easiest entry to flat spin for me is the blender. I kill throttle, head straight down, left aileron to get the spin, then Right rudder and Down elevator. (Down elevator as in you push up which normally makes the plane go down. Just in case, i told someone that at the field and he pulled the stick down and it didnt work)

Now at this point my plane is not flat, close but not flat so I start to **** the aileron to the right to a little past right of center and it locks in, thats when I start to increase throttle and it stops dead in its tracks and spins. Although I cant get it to stay there for more than a few revs once I get it to stop dropping.

There is a good article in Fly RC about Flat Spins, If you dont get Fly RC think you can check it out over a cup of coffee at Barnes and Noble. Of Course your LHS should have it too, but they dont usually have good coffee.

Wow, i looked up the 180, it would be sweet to have a Saito 180, but man $400 is a good chunck of change. On the upside I am sure it would be around to put in other planes after the Showtime, i have always wanted to try a Yak. The YS 1.10 sounds like a good fit for the plane though.

Barry, you suggested I stay away from putting a gasser in, just curious what the downfalls are. I havent had any exerience with them but had considered it for the showtime.

rtn9105... My CG is around 6 with the S82... But this plane seems a lot more elevator
sensitive mine also flys and land good, I'm thinking of adding more weight to the nose
to de-sensitise it somewhat... On my first "Do" with the 100 the cg was closer
to 5 1/2, and I had a harder time getting to hold a inverted F.S. vs the YS-63 without it
wanting to roll out stay flat, But I was thinking most was from the added air that the 100
was pushing back there and that I needed a real light touch on the left stick, I started
getting better at throttle control, but then my solder joint on my battery went and so did
the "Do" [:@]...

sctcrash... I'm not up on gassers... But, I think the showtime works great on your listed
glow engines... A gasser may be too heavy??? and also the S.T. firewall may need to
be strenghten to hold it???? JMO......... Mine flies great with the 110

raideron
After reading your post I went back and checked my CG again and I found that I was wrong the first time, my CG is at 5.5 back with the S-100. I don't think my problem has anything to do with to much air from the prop not letting it get flat because I've tried it with all different throttle settings from 0-full throttle and the only result being it spins faster with more throttle. I've also tried the ailerons from 0 aileron input to full input the same direction as the spin as well as 0 to full input the opposite direction as the spin. I've also tried all of this both inverted and up write. It won't even flatten out at the end of a blender, it just slows down but the elevator won't push it flat.

Maybe this particular plane just won't do a flat spin[] It's just frustrating because my last one would do them so nice and I've heard you guys all talking about how well the Do does them.

How much elevator travel do you have? I am not sure exactly how much I have but its at least 45 deg probably more. My Do flat spins great and starts to climb a little.

When I first started flying this one I had 40deg of elevator throw on high rates but when I would give full elevator input the plane would stap out of what ever maneuver I was trying to do so I decreased the throws.

Yup! 1 to 1 (Omega 15% and Cool Power 30% Heli) gives you right at or around 22.5% nitro and 20% on the oil. Just a bit more kick on the nitro and a little buffer on the oil. (Saito calls for 20% oil, go figure?!) My Saito 82 loves this mix! It growls on it. And I don't have to worry if I'm giving it enough oil. I get the Omega for around $12.50/gallon and the Cool Power for $17.50, not bad either I betcha?! $15/gallon for the blend.

BTW, I just test hung the Saito on the UCD, still trying to work out the strange-ness of the Saito on the GP engine mount. I tried turning the carb around and mounting the engine mount right side-up and the Saito inverted and still have some mods to make to the mount, it wants to hit somewhere by the carb and causes the motor to sit crooked. I may want to look at some other mounts so that it won't be an issue plus I want to be able to use the Bru-line filter and I won't be able to with this engine mount. I really won't want to have to reset the blind nuts in the firewall, however since the fuel tank isn't installed yet, if I have to I have to. That's my news on the UCD front. Sorry I can't claim much progress as yet but my son just started middle school today at a prep school and he is in accelerated classes and I have had my hands full getting him ready. Life get's so full of details sometimes especially when it comes to raising your kids. I don't know how much more complicated life can be and still be endured sometimes?

You guys fly 'em high for me and I'll be not too far behind you!

Bliss

Blisster...

I know how you feel about kids. About the time you really start to love them they leave the house. But there is no subsitute for spending time with them.

Thanks
Barry

That is so weird. A UCD that won't flat spin. Mine does them so nice and both sizes will do rising flat spins. Not many planes will do that.

You must have something wrong. I think maybe it could be too much throw. Try it on lower rates. I have all three surfaces on dual rates. I never use the ailerons on high rates when doing flat spins. I usually have the rudder and elevators on high but the ailerons on low. That might help.

The other thing I thought about was your rudder servo. That one needs to be high torque. Is it?

Another thing that helps me is patience. When you have the rudder in the right corner and the aileron in the left corner and the elvators full down, just hold, hold, hold, and then start sliding the aileron stick slowly to the right. Mine ends up about center. I usually start the flat spin at an idle and then transition to the aileron about center and then pick up the throttle and jockey the rudder and ailerons to keep in flat and start the infamous, envious, rising flat spin.

Just a couple of thoughts. I hope one of them will help you. All 8 of my collectively owned UCDs have done a beautiful flat spin. The verdict is still out on the Giant as I haven't really tried one with it yet.

Good luck.

thanks
Barry

Hey Blisster,
I’m having the same problem with my engine and the GP mount. Mine is centered and about as far forward as I dare but it seems to be touching the left side of the mount. I haven’t found the best way to correct this problem either. I’m also having problems deciding on where to place the throttle linkage. Hopefully, you guys with experience on mounting the Saito 82 into the UCD can help me with that. This seems to be the two things that are preventing me from completing the bird and getting it in the air.
As always, I appreciate your guys help on this.

Thanks,

Mark

Barry, I'll try the flat spin with the ailerons on low rates, I think they were before but I'm not sure so I'll try it again to make sure. Do you think moving the CG back to 6" or even 6.25" will help at all?

Blisster, ForeverHero
Without seeing a picture of your problem I'm not sure but it sounds like your carbs are hitting the nose wheel mount on the GP mount. Both the Saito 65 and the Saito 100 I've mounted on this mount needed the nose wheel lug ground off the mount. The only other problem I've ran into is part of the carb hitting the socket head bold that's used to mount the engine mount to the firewall, if that's your problem just go to the hardware store and get a phillips head 6/32 bolt and replace the socket head bolt with it. That should give you just enough room to get everything mounted and lined up perfect.

As for the throttle linkage, I did mine just like the pictures show in the manual. Just follow the manual closely, go slow, measure twice-cut/bend once. In the event measuring twice isn't enough you might want to pick up an extra metal push rod just in case you mess up the first one

Hi All!
Flew reconstructed UCD last night. Good to be back. Plane flew pretty good considering the heavier weight from all my repairs. It is around 7 lbs. Vertical was not as good with the 82 as before. The plane had some twist in it from repairs and it still flew straight and great. i will put a new fusealage on this winter.

Barry will work on those flat spins. Where are you balanced at?

ForeverHero, Blisster Post pics of the interferance problem if you can. 82 carb is close to side of mount. and I also had to grind off landing gear lug to clear the rear of engine. Mounts are not inverted are they?

Doug