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Need help with my first plane

Old 03-09-2013, 10:32 AM
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daddyrabbit1234
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Default Need help with my first plane

Hi, My name is Thomas, I'm from Georgia and at 46 just getting into rc planes. Heres my problem: I bought a rtf Cessna 182 500 class electric plane with 51" wing span. The first thing I saw when I unboxed it was the nose busted from front to back. Then when I unpacked the wheels they looked like eggs with the centers being a 1/4 inch off on a 2" tire. I glued the nose up as best I could and ordered 2 new tires as well. I got the plane together and everthing hooked up. I charged the 3s 11.1 volt battery,put it in and the plane beeped. Then I turned my transmitter on and all the flaps and rudder work perfect but the motor is lifeless. I then reread the instructions and proceeded with the jump wire and bind procedure and still nothing. The reciever blinks with just the battery and it stays light when I turn on the transmitter. Could the esc be dead or the motor be dead. I don't know how to check them. I double checked all plugs and wires and I'm getting 0 supprt from the distributor I bought it from. I need some guidance from some of you rc guru's.
Old 03-09-2013, 12:47 PM
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Default RE: Need help with my first plane

Sorry for your trouble. this is a fun hobby once you get some basics worked out. Who is the manufacturer/distributor? I am sure all would like to avoid them. One thing that jumps out at me right off is that you ALWAYS turn on transmitter BEFORE turning on your receiver. Try that and rebind. Hope you get it worked out
Old 03-09-2013, 03:59 PM
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Default RE: Need help with my first plane

Welcome Thomas,
This plane was sold by a company called Banana Hobby and now I see it's available by several resellers. You have found out the hard way how these places operate and there are two more companies you can roll into the mix and that's Nitroplanes and Hobby King. Their MO is to target the newcomer with flashy pics and videos and price , Typically the planes come in damaged and you will never get much if any support from any of them. Hopefully you can get this thing running and your next plane purchase it from a more reputable company like Horizon Hobby where you can get excellent support after the sale.
The manufacturer of this plane is Art Tech (I believe) and I think FMS made a version of it too. It looks like a very detailed plane and is made OK but the motor is just enough to fly it from the reviews I have read. That is another typical downfall with planes from these companies. The electronics are just the bare minimum and quality to make it fly.
First ALWAYS turn your transmitter on first
Second plug the battery into the speed control in the plane while someone else is securely holding the plane. NOTE: When first setting up a plane and working on problems always take off the propeller from the motor to be safe !
You should hear the ESC give a series of tones and then silence. At this point you should have movement on all of the control surfaces (rudder,elevator, and ailerons and you should have control of the motor as you raise the left stick.
If not, unplug the battery from the plane and turn off the transmitter. Check the left stick and make sure it is all the way back and check the small trim lever to the right of the throttle stick. That trim lever should be all the way down.
Turn on the transmitter then plug the plane in and see if the throttle works the motor. If not unplug/turn off everything,
check the plug from the ESC speed control going into the receiver and make sure it is plugged in properly and it is plugged into the correct port (labeled channel 3 or throttle).
You say you did the binding. Make sure that was done correctly.
Now you may have the throttle reversed on the transmitter. Before you turn on the transmitter to try again, locate the channel reversal switches. They are probably on the front/bottom of the transmitter. Locate the one for channel3/throttle and note how it is positioned. Now move it to the opposite position.
Turn on the transmitter and then plug in the battery to the ESC and see if the throttle starts the motor now.
Old 03-09-2013, 04:57 PM
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daddyrabbit1234
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Default RE: Need help with my first plane

Thanks Grumpy and Brian. I talked to Bruce Bergey today and he's a member here as well. Bruce told me the reciever on first reciever off last rule and it worked like a charm. Everything is in check and working fine. I was plugging the battery in first trying to be safe and that was the problem. The manual said nothing about start sequence and what order to proceed in????  I'll probably take it out for its first flight and my first flight as well this week. Some how I dont think I'll be sad if I crash this plane. The manufacturer was china and the distributors name on the plane was redcat racing and this is the same plane as art-tech and so many others.Redcat Racing has'nt  made any effort what so ever to contact me even though I filed a warranty claim with them and the seller I bought it thru just kepps running me in circle's.  I'm gonna stay away from Redcat Racing and others like them from here out. That's a good wake up call for a beginner to just get slapped in the face right from the get go.
Thomas
Old 03-09-2013, 10:19 PM
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flyinwalenda
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Default RE: Need help with my first plane

If you have never flown before, the Cessna  or any "scale" model is not a good choice as a first time trainer. That ,and wanting to go up by yourself is a recipe for a crash early on.  A trainer is a purpose built plane with a wing design that allows the plane to right itself and keep flying right-side up if you get in trouble while high enough in the air. The Cessna and other scale planes go where they are pointed for the most part and have no built-in designs to help a new pilot. Scale-type planes are a handful for new pilots and first flights usually don't go well.
I'm not trying to scare you away but rather be honest with you.
If you are determined to fly this I recommend at least finding someone who is an experienced RC pilot and have them check it out and  take it up for the first flight. When it's in the air and trimmed out  they could hand you the controls (after some general instruction) and you could try and fly it. When you get in trouble they can take the control back and recover the plane, try again, and then land it for you.
That is the best approach in learning to fly using this plane or any first time plane.
Here is an example of  a good electric trainer:
http://www.horizonhobby.com/products...-radio-EFL2725



Old 03-10-2013, 05:43 AM
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jester_s1
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Default RE: Need help with my first plane

Sadly, these planes are the cause of many newcomers to the hobby getting frustrated and quitting before they ever even learn to fly. Thankfully it sounds like you are hard headed enough to make repairs and ask questions to get it flying though. If you don't have anyone local to help you, choose a flying area that very wide open with grass at least ankle deep. Taller is even better, but this time of year you can't be too choosy. Hand launch the plane and if you get in trouble, you can just cut the power and glide the plane in the best you can, and the grass will help a lot to prevent damage. Stay about twice as far away from trees as you think you need to, and allow yourself at least twice as much space as you think you need. If you can see a tree, you can hit it. Once you feel confident that you can make a controlled landing, move to an area with a smoother surface and do a traditional takeoff and landing. I'll enthusiastically repeat the advice to get help from an experienced pilot, at the very least for the plane's first flight so that the setup and trimming can be done properly, but I also understand that not everyone is near a club or wants to join one.
Old 03-10-2013, 11:14 AM
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Default RE: Need help with my first plane

Welcome to RC!
You can learn a lot here! and alot from your plane. Balance is VERY important and trim comes in a close second. YOU can check balance on the bench. nose to tail is th e"CG" or center of gravity. Also check that it balances wing tip to wing tip. Thats a little harder but worth while. Make sure all the control surfaces are "centered". Do this with radio and plane ON and look that rudder and elevator are in the "neutral" position. Check now that they move in the corect direction. IF all is good hand launch straight and flat with noe and tail parallel to ground or SLIGHTLY up and wings level. NO WIND watch what it does and make SMALL trim correction to achievel level flight. Now you can attempt to fly around the field. Small inputs on the sticks! Good luck Find a club or an experienced flyer if possible cuz that is priceless help!
Old 03-10-2013, 01:32 PM
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Default RE: Need help with my first plane

A student of mine bought this same plane (against my advice), I maidened for him and it flew ok, but it is definitely not a beginners plane. Small control surfaces and no excess of power, so it has to be flown on the wing. The first time he flew it solo (also against my advice and I wasn't present) he brought it back in pieces. I would recommend putting this plane asside and getting a Hobbyzone SuperCub or an Apprentice, and some experienced help if you can.
Old 03-10-2013, 05:21 PM
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daddyrabbit1234
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Default RE: Need help with my first plane

Hi Guys, Thanks for the encouragement and all the advise. If you have any advise then please share it with me. I'm not one of those up tight people that can't take direction. Heres where I'm at now: I'm in the process of painting this plane cub yellow because I had planned this when I ordered it and I refuse to let all this beat me down and deture me from my original plan. As soon as the paint is done and the wheels arrive I'm gonna take this junkyard up and if it comes crashing down then good riddence. This thing is like a rabbid animal that needs to be put down out of it's misery. I will video it when I take it up so you all can see it. I found a great club 20 minutes from me and never knew they even exsisted until yesterday. I bought a p-47 thunderbolt that Bruce Bergey had listed here on the for sale forum. I'm going to tuck it away till I have several hours of flying time under my belt. I guess it's live and learn. One thing's for sure "I'm here to stay".
Thomas
Old 03-10-2013, 07:29 PM
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Default RE: Need help with my first plane

[quoteThis thing is like a rabbid animal that needs to be put down out of it's misery. I will video it when I take it up so you all can see it.][/quote]


LOL. I don't blame you, I've had similar planes that I just decided I'm either gonna fly it or crash it and really didn't care which. I like your determined attitude, reminds me of myself!!

That said, I'm assuming your plane also has the 370 sized brushless motor and flaps. Here's a little advice that might help it survive:

Plan your flight area well so you can make a long take off roll from a hard surface and followed by a very gentle climb. You probably need about 100 feet of roll out to make a safe take off. ( I could do it in 50 feet or less, but I'm experienced and well practiced at the moment) Do not make any sudden turns or steep climbs until you get some altitude and get a feel for the plane. The small control surfaces make it very easy to overcorrect/under correct for banks and turns as well as stall out. This plane will bite the dust if you are too agressive.

Don't try to hand toss this plane. It does not have enough power and responsiveness to pull out of a bad toss. Hand tossing takes a bit of skill and practice, especially with an under powered plane.

Keep the flaps off or set at a very low deflection, like less than 5 degrees. Being underpowered already, flaps do help with lift and stall speed on this plane, but they rob some low speed response and manueverability that you are going to need a lot worse than you need the extra lift.

Give your self plenty of room to land. Don't cut the throttle and try to glide in, and don't try to come in too low and hang on the prop. This plane will tip out too quickly for you to respond. Come in at low throttle and establish a moderate rate of decesnt, and then cut power just before flairing for touchdown.

Hope this helps, let us know how it goes!












Old 03-11-2013, 06:19 AM
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Default RE: Need help with my first plane

Some more friendly advice. You will need more than a few hours of practice before you can move onto the P-47. Once you get started and depending how many times you fly per week , it could take a season or two before you are ready. Don't rush it or you will have a broken P-47.
Logical progression that works is: Learn on and fly a Trainer Plane for several weeks/months. Move up to a High Wing More Aerobatic Plane (like a Big Stick) and practice on that. Then move on to a Mid-Low Wing Trainer and after that you are ready for Scale and Warbird Planes.
Old 03-11-2013, 08:18 AM
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Default RE: Need help with my first plane

Hi Hugger, Thanks for the great advise. I've never gotten into a hobby that had so many helpful people. It's great! I'mgonna take your advise on taking it up for the first time. When I put the plane together the flaps were set at full which I thought was way too much. Luckily I can adjust my flaps and flap speed from my transmitter. I set them very shallow for now, probably less than 5%. The flaps on this plane are huge. I've got a great place to fly near my house. It's up on top of a mountain where they use to fly para planes off.
Old 03-11-2013, 08:23 AM
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daddyrabbit1234
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Default RE: Need help with my first plane

The p-47 will be a ways away before I will attempt to fly it but I might get some of the guys at the club I found to fly it so I can see it go. I'm just gonna focus on the heap at hand and see if I can get it to stay in the air. If I get this junk pile up and land it without breaking anything then you guys should fix me up an honorary pilots license and send it to me
Old 03-11-2013, 08:27 AM
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jester_s1
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Default RE: Need help with my first plane

I'm going to try and discourage you from two parts of your plan. First, don't paint the airplane. Normally you don't think of it this way, but paint adds significant weight. You already are flying a plane that is underpowered and not terribly maneuverable, and adding paint will just make it that much worse. Since you've figured out this won't be the plane you are going to show off and be proud of for the long haul, just fly it as it is so you have the best chance of flying it successfully. Even though it's not the best choice for a beginner plane, it is a functional aircraft as it sits and it can give you some good flying experience.
Second, attitude is vital to being successful at flying. If you take off the plane expecting it to crash, 99% of the time it will. It will do it because you will be careless and will make it crash. If you are going to fly this plane at all, fly it with the attitude that you are going to make successful flights and learn some skills from it. Make every effort to make smooth turns that don't gain or lose altitude and to maintain a feeling of control during the whole flight. If you get disappointed because of a mechanical issue or a piloting error caused by inexperience, that's ok. The plane will have accomplished its purpose of teaching you what not to do and hopefully will be repairable. But do genuinely try to fly the plane well and bring it home in one piece.

To illustrate my point, I'll tell you about a Cub that's in my hangar/garage right now. We had this new member at the club who was one of these hyper, short attention span kinda guys. He flew on the club trainer for about a month and then showed up with a 25% Yak 54. He hadn't even soloed on the trainer yet and thought he could fly a Yak. The instructors took the Yak up for him so he could see it fly, then explained that he really should get something intermediate to build his skills on. So he bought a .40 size Hangar 9 Cub. He tried to fly the Cub the way one would fly the Yak, with predictably dismal results. He couldn't be bothered to learn how to do a takeoff right or how to coordinate his turns or set up his landing gear right or manage the wind with his rudder or any other of the 20 different flying skills you need to really enjoy a Cub. He also couldn't be bothered to learn how to tune an engine so he wouldn't get deadsticks. So he judged the Cub as a junker plane and started to treat it as such, taking risks and attempting maneuvers he had no business doing with any plane. Of course his attitude became a self-fulfilling prophecy. He got out there doing spins one day when I was at the field and nosed it in. He had such a negative attitude toward the Cub that he gave me the whole thing, engine, servos and all. I valued it and gave it some love and took the time to learn how to fly it well and now it's one of my favorite planes. This first foray into RC for you might not become one of your treasured planes, but it can be a good experience for you if you will take a positive attitude and use it to learn with. Learn what the plane can and can't do, and learn what it takes to fly it well. Then when you move on to more capable planes you'll actually be pleasantly surprised at how good you've become at flying, and the hobby will take on a whole new level of fun for you.
Old 03-11-2013, 11:43 AM
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Default RE: Need help with my first plane

Hi Jester, Thanks for the input and advise. Even though this plane is'nt what I had hoped for I'm determined to fly it and I'm giving it 110%. This plane was labeled as a trainer and clearly it's not. I just feel like I've jumped ahead in line and I need to back up and start with a true trainer plane but since I'm in this position and already out $250 I might as wellgiveit my best.Not if but when this plane goes down they'll be no love lost. If I had it to do over I would've joined this forum before I bought a plane and I would'nt be in this mess. Some of these guy's here have pointed me to some good trainer planes and that's what I need to be trying to fly instead of this thing but I'mmight as wellmake somelemonade outof this lemon while I'm at it.
Old 03-11-2013, 01:49 PM
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Default RE: Need help with my first plane

Well following that logic, if you aren't confident in the plane or your abilities to fly it then don't fly it. That's one of the first things my instructor told me- if you aren't 100% confident for the next flight for any reason, don't take off. I do understand not wanting to wait until you can afford a different plane, but if you just go out and wreck that one you'll have lost a major part of your investment. As it is, this could become a fun plane for you once you have some experience. For that matter, it could be a decent trainer for you if you get some help and don't try to fly beyond your or the plane's ability.
Old 03-11-2013, 02:13 PM
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Default RE: Need help with my first plane

I agree with flyinmalinda. Start with a trainer, something perhaps recommended by the guys at your field that they can buddy box you on. I started with a Senior Kadet (still love to fly it), then graduated to a Big Stik 60, then a low wing Contender (40, not the new electic version) then to a warbird. AT-6 that quite frankly I am still buddy boxing on due to the difference in take off and landing approaches. Take the training wheels and enjoy the learning curve.
Old 03-12-2013, 07:07 AM
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daddyrabbit1234
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Default RE: Need help with my first plane

Yet again more great advise. I have a flight simulator that came with this plane but I'm not going to use it. I believe these simulators give a false sense of confidence and ability and there is no substitute for good advise,one on one personal training with an experienced flyer and some flight time. I'm getting the advise here and I've got a club lined up to help me. The guy who sold me this plane told me to file a warranty claim with redcat racing on they're website to replace the bad parts. I did this last week and they're website said they would contact me within 48 hours. It's been 5 days and still not heard from them so I emailed the guy again and he sent me his # and told me to call him but all I ever get is his voice mail. And the saga continues!!!!! I was going to put the new V4 mrrcsound in this plane but now I'm not so sure because I think even at 6 oz I would need to change the motor if I add the sound so as not to be under powered. I think I have the trim pretty much figured out and the CG is decent as is with it being just a little nose heavy.  My transmitter has a dual rate switch. What does that do?
Old 03-12-2013, 07:12 AM
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Default RE: Need help with my first plane

Flip it back and forth while watching your control surfaces and you will see what it does. You will want it on low rates until you get proficient with the plane.
Old 03-12-2013, 07:16 AM
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Default RE: Need help with my first plane

Thanks Jerry, I'll do just that. I'm about to go out to the shop and monkey around with the beast just after lunch.
Thomas
Old 03-12-2013, 07:42 AM
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Default RE: Need help with my first plane

Most of the time these are set at the factory but you do need to check both the low&high deflection rates and make sure each control operates the proper control surface and in the proper direction. As mentioned the dual rate switch should have been programmed with a low and high deflection rate. Simple test is to pull back on and hold the elevator stick(right stick) and watch how the elevator changes as you toggle the switch back&forth. Low rate is the position where it moves less and high is where it movers furthest and yes you do want it on low rates for the time being,
Check the controls too standing behind the plane. Elevator (right stick) pulled back should raise the elevator pushed forward should lower it. Ailerons (right stick) pushed to the right should raise the aileron on the right wing and lower the aileron on the left wing and pushing the stick to the left should raise the left aileron and lower the right Rudder (left stick) pushed to the right should move the rudder to the right and pushed to the left should move it to the left. If they are not correct you will have to adjust the switches on the transmitter to change or reverse direction.
If you are determined to try this alone or without an experienced pilot next to you be aware . I believe someone mentioned to keep this plane on the ground at full throttle for as long as possible before you start to pull back on the elevator. It is not over powered and will require a long take-off run especially if on grass. Pulling back too soon will result in a stall. Also if/when it does get in the air and is going away from you all of the controls will make sense to you BUT as you turn and come back toward yourself now the controls for ailerons and rudder are "backwards" as you look at the plane. This is the hardest part of flying for most new pilots to overcome and is the time when most first time crashes occur.
You want the plane to turn left as you are looking at it so you push the stick to the left . The plane does the correct thing and turns itself to the left however the planes left is now your right so if you want the plane to move or turn to your left you push the aileron or rudder stick to the right. It is very confusing but it's something you will need to overcome and it takes practice.
Old 03-12-2013, 08:48 AM
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Default RE: Need help with my first plane

Thanks Brian, I found out about the confusing controls on my sons rc truck when Iwent across the yard and turned to come back everything was backwards as far as controlls. I'm hoping since I've owned my own grading and excavating business for the last twenty years that my trackhoe skills will help me out some what. Primarily all I do is operate a trackhoe with joysticks and buttons and I take quickly to operating almost anything. Most of the time I'm just ripping out dirt or big trees but sometimes I'm taking a 60,000 pound machine and digging beside a plastic natural gas line no bigger around than a coke can and thats where the feel comes into play. I hope this ability will help me in my flying as well. Good advise on the take off and I'm going to do it as you described. How about landing??? I've heard a lot of flyers say come in hot with no flaps on the maiden then I've heard to control my speed coming in and use flaps then cut the motor when the wheel touch. I've got plenty of room to come in like a blistered monkey if need be.
Old 03-12-2013, 09:15 AM
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Default RE: Need help with my first plane

Don't touch the flaps for now. Flying with flaps takes practice. Landings are the hardest part. Don't slow the plane down too much as it will stall. What I usually do with a new plane is take it up high after it is properly trimmed for level flight and lower the throttle and slow the plane down and watch it react. As it slows down more and more you will see how the plane stalls and if it wobbles and drops the nose, wobbles and dips a wing, etc... That way you are prepared to know how slow you can go when coming in for landings.
You need to bring it in with a little speed and fly it down close to the ground. When close you can reduce throttle a bit and let it settle in and at the right time pull back on the elevator a bit to flair and get the nose up so you can set it down on the main gear and then throttle back and it will set down on the nose wheel. Don't expect that to happen on the first landing attempt as again that takes practice too. If you can get it back on the ground in one piece or two and not a lot of small pieces you did OK.
Old 03-12-2013, 03:49 PM
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Default RE: Need help with my first plane

Brian, I'll do just what you said. I always wondered what flair was when I would hear other flyers talk about it and now I know. I was hoping you would tell me something easy like come in hotthen when it's about a foot from the gound just cut the power and closemy eye's. As soon as my tires get here and the wind is very calm I'm going for it. My wife will record it so good or bad It'll be posted here for all to see.
Old 03-12-2013, 04:46 PM
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Default RE: Need help with my first plane

Welcome to RC .. thats exciting!!!!   my advice is get a quality nitro plane in the 40 size that is stable to fly from a US supplier like the Tower Hobbies/Great Planes Nextar that comes with a simulator or the Horizon package.   They are ready to fly if you dont feel like building. My first plane was a Goldberg kit and it was good to build for knowledge of repairs.  It took me a month to build it though.
The clubs are full of people that will help on the buddy box (I didnt have one and it was pass back and forth the transmitter).   The 40 size flies good and there will be more people willing to help. 
Once I solo'd, I would go tothe field every chance I could when it wasnt busy and fly touch and go curcuits practicing landing. it's fun trying to make that perfrect landing on the target spot.  windy days became fun doing crosswinds after so many T&G's.  I would fly that trainer when most were packing it in due to wind. 
I will tell you, be patient and you will LOVE it. I still love it today.  I have a Nextar to fly and for others to fly. Love building still and have a few old kits for those rainy days to work on.  An old aerostar with an old .40 engine is next on the list.  I still enjoy it as much as the first one.

Again, welcome and it's AWESOME your getting into the hobby.  no matter the experience, we share a common bond. 

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