arthure

Well,

I tried to see if the motor controller operations manual was correct and it did go into the program mode witht he full throttle position the first two or three times. However being slightly deaf and distractable I though it had gone into the programing mode the forth time. It didn't. Then I proceeded to put it back to full throttle thinking I was safe when...... You guess it .5 seconds to the ceiling [X(]about 1 second down after I hit the throttle to off. [&o] The blades struck the wall above my cabinet with full force and didn't even dent the blades my wall I can not say the same thing for. Pretty good two inch dent in my corner. During the fall I damaged the landing skid mount and of all things the only other damage was a bent main shaft. The strongest thing on the heli and it is basically the only thing that needed to be replaced. I got the parts from Xheli and reassembled the bird she is in fine form again and hovers rock solid. I still have had no accidents with her in a intentional "hover". I really like this heli, very predictable. (P.S. I know now to do the esc test with out the main blades installed.) oops.[:@]

retired911guy

You're sharp, Jim. I would never have come up with that answer in a 100 years. I keep learning how much I don't know about this hobby. TimeFlyer's problem sounds on the surface like a gyro or servo issue, but based on recent diagnostic performance, I doubt my accuracy. I have had the problem when trying to trim a heli out, but not after getting it into a stable hover. Good luck with it, though!

2Thirty

It's going to sound odd, but it might be good that when I got the helio I, (like Arthure), mistook it for a power tool.
(As in... hey look, a tool to drill holes in the ceiling... hahahaha..Arthure, I know the feeling of seeing the helio spring from the workbench to the ceiling at full speed. A life lesson in under 2 seconds.)

If my accident had not happened, I would have probably flown it in to a neighbor's house, or a neighbor.
As it turned out, I have had the "opportunity" to rebuild/replace a number of parts. As an electronic engineer, it has been fascinating to get in to the details.

I'm in a busy time at work right now, and it seems that wherever the weather is good for flying, I'm either busy or too tired.

My wife thinks I have too many hobbies. She may be right, but this one seems to show promise. (Unless I continuously crash)

I do like to read posts of other flyers, and their experiences.

Jim

ccecreations

Good evening everyone, I believe it is time that I introduce myself and be available to answer questions for anyone looking at the Black Hawk series helicopter. My name is Chris Grieger and I am the President for CCE Creations. Our website is www.DiscountRCHelicopter.com and I have been watching this thread very eagerly to see what your impressions are of these heli's. The bottom line is this; I started this business because I love this hobby and I found a product that really makes it possible to get started in RC heli's without spending a fortune. Heli's are not cheap regardless of what other products are available. What I mean is that we know that you need to start with a quality product that is upgradeable as your skills grow. Many other products out their may get you "in the air" but unless the precision is there, your will find yourself fighting a heli and not being able to grow your skills and confidence. I have been actively involved in this hobby for the past 10 years and I had to teach myself along the way ( I am great at answering "what not to do questions!")

I consider it my honor to meet each of you and I have had conversations via email with many of you that have helped me realize why I love this hobby. Mainly these forums, since my wife is not much for conversation regarding the "essence of flight."

Please feel free to ask any questions or just to introduce yourselves for those I have not had a chance to meet!

ccecreations

TimeFlyer1 - It sounds to me like your belt may have slipped or your tail rotor servo may have had some binding. Have you flown since your last post? Any reports of this happening again? Perhaps checking the tension and linkage may reveal something. Please let us know what you find out.

retired911guy

Hey, Chris! Welcome aboard! It's great to know you have been reading this thread about the Black Hawks, both good and bad. I love mine and am still working on getting it under control and building my eye/hand/helicopter motor responses. I have been very busy and the weather has not been cooperative (warm 'til today, but very windy) since rcjetflyer came up from SC to help me out. I hope out forum becomes a little more active now. I love reading what others are learning and experiencing.
Arnold

retired911guy

Ooops! I hope OUR forum.....

Timeflyer1

My Feedback: (5)

Hi Chris, so glad you're part of this form now. I was grounded for about a week, because as I was hovering in the garage I happen to drift into the leg of my table saw. I just barely hit the leg with the main rotor blades, which was enough to damage the wood blades. I did buy a pair of Align 325mm wood blades locally. Had to balance them and placed them on the 450. Thank goodness the heli was fine, nothing was damaged other than the blades. Since the glitching problem, I have hovered in the garage twice now and have not seen the spin around problem as of yet. The really cool thing about this heli is the fact that I can hover anywhere from 6" to 12" off the floor and there is almost zero ground effect on the heli. Its pretty darn stable once you dial in the knobs. I think I have found the CG sweet spot pretty well. I also dialed in the hover mode pitch and can hover for about 13 minutes on one charge. After landing I measured the temp of the motor and it was 109 degrees F, which is very acceptable. When I had the pitch to low I really booged down the motor and only got 6 minutes of flying time and the motor got really hot, 146 degrees F. I think thats way to high of a temp.

I did check the belt tension and it seems fine. The servo is something I am keeping my eye on. Still not sure what caused the spin around. I may be reaching here, but I always listen to my FM radio when I'm in the garage. Is it possible that a stray FM signal from the radio could have interfered with my flight. I am not listening to my FM radio during hover anymore, just in case.

There is one thing left for me to do before I go out to the field and try basic flying in a more open area. The gyro seems to drift a bit. I haven't been able to make the gyro rock solid. I keep adjusting it a bit and it still drifts. I will just keep working with it.

Just so everyone knows, I really like this heli. Anyone who gets into this hobby should know that any heli you buy takes some tweaking and fine tuning. It really is part of the fun of this hobby to dial everything in.......

Julius

arthure

Hey it is great to see a hobby sales rep in the forum to support us. I'd like to add to what Chris said. Coming from a fixed pitch Sabre the Blackhawk 500 is amazing. It was so simple to set up even after my little..err collision with the ceiling and replacing the main shaft. I have it set up just like Chris sent it to me with the pitch curve set at 0 to +10 with no negative and it flys great with both knobs set to 0 and even better with the pitch adj set all the way down and the blades at full tilt. With this set up I haven't tried the radio in Idle up as

Chris will the supplied receiver, motor, and speed control support a 14.8 pack. I read the description of the 500 and it says it is very responsive with a 14.8 pack in her. If so do I need to regear the pinion? What is the best way of setting the pitch up for 3D? (Neg Pitch) it seems the fore and aft cyclic control arm is a bit short to adjust 4 to 6 degrees out of it and that servo arm is already centered now at 0 degrees. Won't moving the servo arm dwon past center at unwanted mixing with the none linear movement of the srvo arms arch?

Thanks for selling the heli as an ARF and at a great price. I love it. I fell she will go just where I want her and stop where I want her too. It is awesome to have such a stable electric to fly.

Arthur

arthure

BTW,

I flew outside today as teh breeze was not that bad. I was able to do a fair job at maintaining a constant altitude because the throttle/cyclic is so responsive. I can't wait to have a calm day to fly.

Has anyone had any real issues with this helicopter. I have had a great experience. I read alot of forums before buying and read teh horror stories of walkeras and the raptor g2 not flying out of the box so I chose this bigger Brushless Lipo helicopter.

I do plan on upgrading to the Futaba 6EH 2.4ghz since I fly in the yard alot with no freq control board.

I hope everyone a happy weekend flying and hope to hear more about the 500GP owners experieinces.

Chris any hopes in a 500 GP ARF with motor and electronics?

Arthur

tzeming

welcome Chris.

very happy to see everyone up in the air already, I am still waiting for my spare parts shipping from HK again. The RVMshop did nothing wrong, they did send me the package according to the address I gave them, it is my company address and it is very specific , what level and what building.. but I didn't specify the company name. There is only one company on that level. And the Australian post didn't send it to me when the package arrived in Australia. they didn't even attempt to send it to the local post office and returned the whole back to the sender. I waited for a month to find this out. very upset with Aussie post. Now I have to pay another US$14 for RVMshop to resend it.
The Aussie post told me that I can't make the compliant myself, I have to get the RVMshop to complaint to HK post, and HK post can then complaint to Aussie Post. then they will listen.
very upset...

ccecreations

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome!

Chris will the supplied receiver, motor, and speed control support a 14.8 pack?
- The included ESC is rated for 12V Max however you could use a 11.1v 4 cell lipo for longer flight times.

What is the best way of setting the pitch up for 3D? (Neg Pitch) it seems the fore and aft cyclic control arm is a bit short to adjust 4 to 6 degrees out of it and that servo arm is already centered now at 0 degrees. Won't moving the servo arm dwon past center at unwanted mixing with the none linear movement of the srvo arms arch? - I want to make sure I understand the question, the factory settings have neg. pitch set up for you for 3D flights in the Idle up mode, giving enough negative pitch for inverted flight. As far as the cyclic control arms go, are you looking for more throw (therefore more aggresive cyclic?) Please let me know so I can give more info....


Is it possible that a stray FM signal from the radio could have interfered with my flight.
- To to best of my knowledge this shouldn't happen but I will leave it up to someone with more expertise in this area. I would strongly recommend double checking all servo leads and connections (including ensuring the crystal hasn't vibrated loose). Heli's are prone to vibration and also after hmm, not so gentle landings as I call them, these things can creep up on you.

tzeming - Sorry to hear about your parts issues from RVM. Feel free to send me an email with the parts you need and I bet I can get them to you very fast.

Finally, I wanted to let everyone know about "My Page" Any of you with pics and or video feel free to send them in to show off your machine! With the amount of time and creativity that we put into our hel's it seems a shame not to show them off and get well deserved credit!

padrecraig

Greetings all! Had my BH450 out today for some more hovering. Got two more battery packs through her when I accidently hit the power up switch. NOT RECOMMENDED FOR NEWBIES. The sudden torque threw the heli over with such force that I bent the main shaft and stripped the main gear before understanding what had just happened and turned the switch off. Boy things happen fast when you're not expecting them! I did get enough flight time in to ascertain that the Telebee gyro is a BIG improvement over the stock gyro. Like Julius (aka Timeflyer) I had issues with the stock gyro, but the Telebee gyro seems rock-solid. While I'm waiting to receive my new main shafts from CCE Creations, I think I'll go ahead and stick a DX6 Receiver in so I can fly with my Spektrum transmitter. No complaints with the stock radio, but I like the feel of the DX6 better and the CCPM programming features are a big plus. The stock radio is set a bit too aggressive for a newbie such as me. I'm really enjoying the BH450 and looking forward to upgrading the head and tail units soon. Bought a 450X complete CNC Head on eBay. It'll take some tweaking to make it work, but it is immeniently do-able Also got a Trex CNC tail unit. Hopefully no more broken tail holder ball links. Once I make the mods, what I'm I going to call this beastie - a T-Hawk or a Black-Rex? Chris, welcome to the forum. Glad to see you here. One question: have you ever measured the various control links lengths direct from the factory? It would be helpful to have that information posted. Y'all have a Happy Easter! I've got to go now and write a sermon for tomorrow - no rest for procrastinators. I just wish my daytime vocation didn't get in the way of my evening vocation. Peace - Craig +

Timeflyer1

My Feedback: (5)

Hi Craig, nice to know I am not the only one having trouble dialing in the stock gyro. Could I ask what telebe gyro you are using? I have a gy240 on another heli of mine and I would prefer not messing with it, as my other heli flies really well as is.

Sorry to hear about the idle up switch issue. When I first started testing my 450, I placed it on my heli fixture and then flipped the switch. Man was that an eye opener. It went crazy on my fixture. I have not put it back on the fixture yet, after dailing it in. However, this week I will put it back on and flip the switch again to see if all the pitch and throttle curves line up past normal hover.
I am probably months away from trying any 3d flying. I keep working with my G3.5 simulator and can do 3d flying with that, but am no where near trying it with a real heli yet............

Chris, I will check all connections and the crystal seating. I have put another 3 packs thru the hover mode and I can not make this thing spin around again by itself. Which is really a good thing. I am starting to feel more confident and the heli seems to feel more predictable with each hover session.

Once I receive my two other battery packs, I will be going out to the field this week and seeing how this little bird really flies.

What kind of flying time is everyone seeing with the stock battery?

Have a Happy Easter all.......

Julius

retired911guy

Julius, could you enlighten us on what exactly you mean by "hover mode"? I notice one of the knobs on the transmitter is marked "HOV PIT". Are you talking about just trimming your helo out to hover stably without flipping any switches or turning any knobs, or are you doing something else. I can't wait for your report on flying this week. Thanks!

Timeflyer1

My Feedback: (5)

Hi Arnold, sorry I guess I wasn't very clear. When I'm in my garage, my hover mode is just hovering in a smaller space to become comfortable with the controls. I also make sure the idle up switch is in the 'N' or neutral position. At the moment I do not want to flip the switch, (idle up switch) to the #1 position. My transmitter is labeled this way. I have been adjusting my hover pitch knob and pitch trim knob to find the optimal settings and to make sure I can achieve fairly long flights. When I first started making adjustments, I hovered about 10 minutes per battery charge. Then I made different adjustments with both knobs and the time got worse, 6 minutes and the motor/esc got really hot. So I went back to the previous adjustments and fine tuned in that direction and now I get about 13 minutes of hovering time. Plus the motor is running cooler. My hover pit knob is currently set at the '0' mark, and my pit trim knob is about a 1/16" shy of the first dot marking on the plus side of the zero. My main rotor blades are 325mm instead of the stock blades which are 315mm. The extra length and weight, work the battery and the motor a bit harder. What I am hoping is that once I receive my new replacement wood blades (315mm) and my new TP 2100 3 cells which are lighter then the stock battery. I should get around 15 minutes of flying time.

Hopefully this helps.

I will definitely let you know how the flying goes this week. I should get my new batteries either tomorrow or Tuesday and then Wed or Thur I should be flying.........

Julius

retired911guy

Thanks, Julius. That was an outstanding explanation, and now I know exactly what you mean. I wish it would get warmer here; it's been pretty cold and windy here for the last week. I'm itching to get back in the air too. I have not timed my 450, but my impression is about 10 minutes per charge. Good luck flying this week.

padrecraig

Hey Julius - I'm using a Telebee TLB01 Gyro which is purported to be exactly the same as the Align RCE500 used on the Trex, and appears to be the same as the E-Flite G90 sold to upgrade the Blade CP Pro. At $60.00 it is a bargin for what you get and the performance improvement gained. Go to this url to read more: http://www.helidirect.com/product_in...roducts_id=494
It flies well without a lot of adjustments or special setup. I'm completely impressed. HeliDirect told me to save my money and not but the Futaba GY240 unless I really had my heart set. Boy am I glad I did. Not knocking the Futaba mind you. But at the price, I can't imagine the Futaba being that much better for a sport flyer like me. Maybe if I was doing 3D acrobatics, but not for a newbie like me who feels affirmed just to be able to hover without major accidents.

Until I get my new main shaft from CCE Creations, I'm grounded. So in the meantime I'm converting my receiver to a Spektrum DX6. Hope everyone else had a wonderful Easter. Our weather here in LA (Lower Alabama) has been unseasonably cold and windy, so I'm taking my Blade CX2 to my indoor site and fly it, just to keep something in the air.

With best regards to all - Craig +

Timeflyer1

My Feedback: (5)

Thanks Arnold, glad I could help. My batteries and blades came in today and hopefully if its not to windy up here at 7200 feet, tomorrow I will be flying. I measured the weight of my heli with the new batteries and the new 315mm wood blades and I shaved 27grams off the original weight of the stock heli. The original stock weight was 681 grams, and now it weighs 654 grams.

Craig, thank you very much for the gyro information. I will give the 450 a try with the stock gyro and see if the tail holds up ok, but if I have to fiddle with it to much to fly it around I will be buying that telebe. Wow, what a great price for that gyro. I read the reviews on the link you gave me and others are very pleased with it as well.
Good luck setting up the Spektrum transmitter. I woud be interested as to how easy or difficult it is to marry the DX with the Black Hawk 450. My next upgrade would be to buy a Spektrum radio. However, I am about 3-6 months away from this upgrade.

Julius

arthure

Hi All,

Great forum developing here. My wife had to work on Saturday so I stopped by my LHS and found they had a Futaba 6eh 2.4 gig in stock three actually. Sooooo I picked one up and spen the rest of the day learning to program a transmitter and installing the receiver and all. I only picked it up because I have had a couple quick glitches in the bird but I can not say if it was the radio or interference from local sorces. I fly at home and feel that the safety of the 2.4 gig radio is a good trade for the 199 bucks.

One good thing is that I can set the throttle hold and idle up functions off until I think I am ready. I would like to set up the idle up mode but since I removed the od radio equipment and totatlly readjusted the control arms I'd be guessing at the setup since I have not a clue about how to set up a ilde up curve properly. (Currently searching threads )

I have to say with the 6ex I can adjust the swashplate mixing to be agressive or playful in about 5 seconds. with 30% pitch mix and 50% aileron and elevators she flys docile. The total pitch change is from -2 to + 6 and it is plenty to hover nicely. I also am not smart enough to mix anything other then the basic 0, 25, 50, 75, and 100 on both throttle and pitch curves in non Idle up.

Is anyone using a programable radio that could give me some more setting options and the proper way to set up idle up? I am thinking:

Throttle:
1 full down 100%
2 half down at 75%
3 center stick 50%
4 half up 75%
5 full up 100%

Pitch:
1 -6
2 -3
3 0
4 +3
5 +6

I am just spitballing here but WIll that work? Is that the idea? No rush I won't be flying 3D in real life for sometime to come . Well maybe if my wife continues to work Saturday then......

It is great to hear all the blackhawk stories and not feeling alone with the 500.

Oh btw, I had the whole thing set up and found I had to reverse channel 3 (The ESC wouldn't spin the rotor and you cannot just plug it in backwards to reverse it, reversing it on the TX fixed the problem. Yes, I had the blades off this time!) which totally screwed up the whole setup and had to do it all over. Which I would have had to do anyway since I accidently reset the transmitter and lost the original wrong setting. Sometime this hobby make me feel realllllly stupid...haha.

Great flying all,

Arthur

Timeflyer1

My Feedback: (5)

Well today was the day I went out with my 450 Black Hawk and it finally saw the light of day, instead of four walls and a ceiling. I have to admit I was a bit nervous flying this heli outdoors. Previous to buying this heli I have a FP Rotofly that I fly indoors. So the Black Hawk is the first time I have flown outdoors. It was a crisp 35 degrees F outside and I had plenty of room. However, there was a slight breeze in the air. I was a little concerned but went ahead and fired up the heli anyway. I started spooling up the blades and lifted off the ground and man was that fun. This little heli flies really good. It was very predictable and did pretty much everything I asked it to do. The only surprise I had was the wind lifting it up without me giving it more power.
I didn't do anything fancy flying wise. Just the basic hovering up, down, forward back. Fast forward and fast reverse. The tail was not rock solid but I was able to control it fairly well. I will give this gyro a few more flights to see if I like it or not. I had 3 batteries with me and could only put 2 thru the heli as the wind came up even more as I finished the second battery. This heli flies really cool. Luckly no crashes. I agree with Craig as the transmitter is very sensitive.

I limited my flying time to ten minutes per battery. The stock battery lets you know when its lost its juice and it falls short of the Lipo discharge acceptable limit. The TP 2100 3 cell batteries give you longer flights but you must be careful not to drain them to far, because you can drain them below the acceptable discharge level.

I'm really glad I purchased this heli. It flies great for the value. As a side note. I purchased the stock wood blades from Chris and man these blades are really balanced well. I only had to put a small amount of tape on one blade to balance the weight out, CG was right on. The Align blades needed a lot of tape and the CG was a 1/4" out from blade to blade.

I will be grounded for the next few days as a winter storm is coming thru the Sierra mountain range. I can't wait to fly outside again. It definitely feels different flying and looking up at the heli instead of looking down at it for the last few weeks. Its cool having it hover above your head and looking at the sky behind it.

Cheers,
Julius

tzeming

Julius...good on you. a happy Blackhawk pilot. [8D]

ccecreations

Timeflyer1, congrats on the outdoor flight! I am glad you are enjoying your heli... The weather was nice here on Monday and so I took the BH500 out for a couple of flights. It was the first time the weather cooperated in quite a while! Alas we have a snow storm moving in for the next 2 days.[:@]

Oh, I wanted to clarify for a few of you regarding the idle up. For those of you who already know this please forgive me I just want to make sure everyone is aware. Idle up should only be used when the rotors are up to speed just before liftoff since the throttle curve changes to approx. 75% throttle and zero pitch at neutral stick. This way you have full positive and neg. pitch. If this switch is flipped prior to plugging in the battery or without the proper headspeed it will likely strip the main gear and put much strain on the motor since it is immediately trying to go to 75% throttle. I just wanted to give a word of caution to everyone since the manual doesn't say much regarding this.

retired911guy

Congratulations on a successful outdoor flight, Julius. And thanks, Chris, for that important information. I wish I had the bucks to buy a 500!! I really like the bigger helis.

padrecraig

Julius - Congratulations on your big transition to the out of doors. But don't look for any sympathy about snowstorms, etc. when you live in one of the most beautiful spots in the world. And in 45 minutes in either direction you can be in either Reno or Sacramento and below the snow line. I too have had good results with the stock blades. They're lightweight and have what seems to be just the right amount of flex and are yet rigid. I'm trying some 325mm blades from Tech Model Products that share similar flight characteristics, but have the advantage of being a bit longer. I'm hoping that the extra length means a bit more stability for a newbie like me. Won't know for sure until I receive my new main shafts from Chris and can get back into the air again. To you guys flying indoors I can't imagine flying a heli this size in a garage. I have a Blade CX2 that works o.k. indoors when I can't be outside. But I'd be as nervous as a cat in a room full of rocking chairs if I had to fly my BH450 indoors. Y'all must be bold pilots and I'm the other kind (old that is).
Best regards - Craig +