I don't mean to defend NP on this one, gawd knows I've run into a big snag with them on my last order...

But how can you have a "bad C.G.".

Either it's set right or it's not. This is not really a quality control matter is it?

It's up to the builder to get it right. If you were given the wrong info for the C.G. position, that's a different problem, but since you purchased a CMP kit, the C.G. data can be verified on many forums and from other CMP sellers.

So was there other things wrong with the CMP models that caused you to dislike them other than the 10 second flight time?



I have a Yak 54 from CMP that I am pleased with, and I just -TRIED- to purchase a CMP 120 Hellcat, instead I was sent the NP knock off which I do NOT like because of decals and finish, forgetting the hardware.


I was hoping that the CMP Hellcat would be better than the cheaper knockoff available on the web site... so I purchased the CMP ARF, and... drum roll... was sent the NP knockoff!

If by chance that you do buy from NP go over the whole plane and glue all the joints with thin ca, you order a cheap plane and your saving alot of money so put more time into it then to pay the higher price and as opjose said it would be wise to check the CG point on the same plane at different sites, the way i usually check my CG is to put your thumb and first finger on the leading edge and it will be close and you will be able to tell which way it is off, it is better to be a little nose heavy then tail heavy, but check out some other sites and you will find the corect CG point

Tommy said he has taken care of you and will reshipped you the CMP version. Apologize for the scare but it was not intentional. You are and have been a great customer so we will take care of you definitely!

Jose, I've decided to destroy that version and will not sell it anymore. As far as I know, that Hellcat you received wrongfully was our very first kit supplied by one of the factory in 2004...At that time, we were not familiar with ARF and consequently we didn't know much about quality...So a few factories took advantage of our ignorance and supplied us a pile of junk. But as we grow and become more familiar with this business, we know that the #1 priority is quality and will be quality forever. Of course we cannot pride ourselves having the highest quality but at least I know from all the trade shows we attend and the record of repeat customers that we have stuffs people like. So that's all good already...so relax during this holiday weekend...everything will be as smooth as silk for u...

ps, tommy asked u to come to exchange it at the AMA show LOL...

Thanks guys.

I -REALLY- appreciate the quick response!

Often all it takes is hearing that something that is amiss will be fixed.

Tommy got back to me very quickly about this.

I've already e-mailed him on what to do.

---

To anyone else following along, the snafu with my order was quickly resolved to my satisfaction.
NP once again dealt with it very well...

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Re: AMA show...

Hah... I wish I could go, but then again I'd be driving home with a lot of stuff if I went to the show, that I had not intended to purchase.

Thanks.

When I mean bad "CG," I mean the CG given in the instructions are not correct. I build my planes with a lot of careful attention to detail and make sure everything is in place before my maiden flight. All the ARFs I put together that are not the China model types have flown with no problem. But the two China Models I did maiden wouldn't stay in the air at all. The 3rd China Model I'm putting together right now won't see flight time until I am sure the CG is what it should be. I just don't trust the instructions. I'll be combing the forums to make sure it is correct. Also, I found a website that calculates CG based on measurements of the wing. But the website was discovered after the two crashes. Live and learn.

Yeah I've run into the same thing as you with somelousy instructions... or mis translated ones.

I don't blame NP for this as I've seen the same from most Chinese and some Korean suppliers. NP often manually corrects the documentation. I've received many planes from them where the C.G. was hand marked by someone.... but I'd imagine that some will escape inspection.

I ALMOST flew a plane with the C.G. so bad it would have self destructed. Fortunately the day before I was combing the forums and noticed that someone stated that the C.G. was off in the provided manuals.

I fixed mine thanks to this.


A good rule of thumb is to check to see where the C.G. lies in the wing root chord.

If should (usually) be at or forward of the thickest part of the wing in a straight wing plane and in the same position at the average center of the wing when there is a sweep. While this is only a rough rule of thumb useless for actual C.G. positions, it permits you to visually spot a misquoted C.G. in a set of directions. After a while you do get a "feel" for it though.

I'm still curious as to how the CMP was for you forgetting the C.G. issues.

The first plane I had with the bad CG almost crashed. Luckily, I was able to save it and only put a few scratches on it. The second time I took it up, it was disaster. I inspected the entire plane before my second attempt on another day, but this time, it nose dived into the ground and that was it. The plane was no more. The plane itself was gone, but the hardware was still good. My second CMP model was a 36" park flyer. The first time, it appeared nose heavy and nose dived right into the ground. Scratched up the plane a little, but no major damage. The second flight on another day, I move the CG and this time, it was tail heavy. This time, it was disaster. The plane took off nice, but couldn't be controlled and crashed into 3 different pieces into the ground. I still have it sitting on my work table deciding if it's worth saving or not. I haven't touched it in a month. No biggie, I'm happy flying my Great Planes Sportster EP. It's my second Sportster and have flown it with no problems. I've stated in previous posts that after these two mishaps, I'm more than happy to pay a little more for a good plane, like those from Great Planes, than take a chance with a CMP model and crash it. Yes, I agree with you that not all of this is nitroplanes.com fault, but they bring in the products and they should make sure the products they sell are good before selling them. And their customer service is non-existent. I've had mishaps with my orders from towerhobbies.com in the past, but everytime I call them, they take care of me on the spot. There is absolutely no problem. I've called them a few times. Their customer service is 9 out of 10. Nitroplanes.com customer services is 1 out of 10. The only response you will get from them is if you post something on the forums and hope someone answers it.

OK brother, u've been flamin' us long enough already... I'm not even sure if you have been a customer to us and if so, give me your order# so I can pull up your history...and what's a CMP 36"??? I'm not even sure we carry that or even had those kinda stuffs!!! You begin to make me realize you're not even a customer and making up stories

CMP doesn't make foamies AFAIK.

However I would give him the benefit of a doubt. He could have mistated his purchased item.


He hasn't really bad mouthed NP, unless I didn't read all of his posts... He's stated that he LIKEs the planes, but has had a hard time with customer support.

I've received planes which were missing the C.G. correction sheets, and had I flown them I would be in the same boat he is.

The problems with customer support are in large part is due to the sole reliance upon e-mails and the inexperience of people who do on occasion answer the phone in dealing with end user questions about RC problems.

When people are away and e-mails do not get answered, the customers can get upset and/or scared that they will be unsupported though a problem.

This can be frustrating to people, and thankfully NP has stated that you are moving as quickly as you can to do something about this... which is good. Please keep at it.

You guys have always answered my e-mail messages in a good & timely manner, but e-mails are also easy to loose and overlook in this wonderful world of SPAM.

He's right, Tower's customer support is wonderful... but then their prices are MUCH higher to offset that and pay for their spun off support organization.....

So I buy a lot of planes from Nitroplanes knowing that you guys can be very busy at times.

BTW: IMHO Tower is often SLOWER than Nitroplanes in answering e-mails, but you can reach them by phone more easily.

Well, I was working at the AMA show this whole weekend (was supposed to go vegas) and was amazed by the # of compliments we actually got for the quality of the airplanes. A few customers drop by and kinda talked about customer issues but then again, these people are very understanding and helpful. They really appreciate the things we sell and in return, we would feel really bad if we ever let them down ... Then again, technical issue and support will not be a problem anymore as we are working to fix this problem...I will soon begin to introduce you our tech guy (his name is Vic, AMA member for around 45 years. This nice guy LOVES the quality of our planes and so we are very comfortable that he'll be able to help each and everyone of you in the future... he'll be assisting anyone needing help with planes purchased from Nitroplanes.com...This guy will handle all the technical emails, forum supports and also phone calls...We'll also slowly revise the manuals and every bugs so there's not gonna be things like CG OFF BLAH BLAH BLAH I CRASHED MY PLANE

Thanks!

That's good news.

I hope Vic can keep up with the workload.

I'd imagine that he's going to be busy!

(I do not mean that in a bad way... quite the opposite.)

If it were your plane that you lost you would not say bla bla bla it was your instructions that made the pl;ane crash so replace it he was doing just what you told him to do and what make's you think that any one guy that has been an ama member for 45 years is going to be able to handle thousands of orders a day or even a hundred orders plus i think your going to dump everything onto this poor guy, you need a whole staff you need some one that has time in the air as well as in the repair shop, you think that one guy can handle your problems, look at it this way we wont be hearing from you anymore cause there is no doubt that you do not know what your doing, but good luck anyway's

I prefer to be optimistic and HOPE....

However, yeah if the instructions were wrong, and someone lost a plane because of this, most companies would indeed offer to replace the plane on their own nickle, and deem the sale a net "loss". This is what most purchasers expect.

If the instructions were right, but the builder/flyer didn't heed them, that's another matter altogether...

Re: Poor guy.

Large support staffs begin with one overswamped person, often screaming about lack of needed help. The problem is when there is NO ONE that is responsible for all of this.
Here's hoping that Vic is given enough say-so and resources to fix the problems. I've walked those shoes.

pilot727,

It is often difficult to understand what you are saying because there is no separation between your sentences. I can usually get through the misspellings and grammatical errors, but when your post is one long gigantic sentence, it is hard to see the point you are trying to make. I ignore most of what you say because you spend a lot of time doing nothing but flaming NP, but you sometimes have valid points and it could be interesting reading, it is just too hard to understand. Please use punctuation in your sentences so that we can all benefit from your experiences. I know you've got it in you.

Thanks,
Gary

I will go find the order number and and you can go look up my order to see I actually did place an order. This was a Christmas order from my wife to me and so far, I haven't been enjoying my Christmas gift. And to be honest, I haven't even talked about the plane I'm building now that is way too tail heavy. Yup, your Edge 540T EP says it can be converted to electric, but I have to add .75 lbs of weight to the nose to balance it at the recommended CG based on the instructions. You say I'm bad mouthing your company, but I'm just stating the facts. I run a side business on my own and for myself, I don't offer a product that I don't test and assure it's good for my customers. Also, If my business grows too quickly, I make sure I can offer the customer support or I just won't allow the business to grow that quick. I take care of my customers. It doesn't matter if you're trying. What matters is the the end result. I'm sure 80% of all your customers are happy with your products, but the other 20% are sorry out of luck. And on your website, you have a banner that says "100% satisfaction guaranteed." Doesn't seem to be holding true. I'll go find my order # tonight and you can go look up my order and see I'm not just making your company look bad. If I really was trying to make your company look bad, you would know it. And for the record, when I received a defective plane from Towerhobbies.com, they replaced it for free. That's right, for free with one phone call.

Is your name NP, are you working for them?? This letter that was sent to NP, was for them to read and to understand i was not writing to you and when i do i will put your name on the heading, do you understand that, i was only trying to help a guy that needed out support, also i do think that NP are trying to do better and they do make some nice planes as i have a friend that buys there all the time and has not had one problem with them, the thing is that when a customer write to a company with a complaint, usually people that are in our hobby are good people and are not out for a free plane, first the company never should of applied that he never bought the plane there, are you with me so far, second they should of just asked for his account number then talk to him, i to have gotten a bad plane from a couple of different company's and they took care of me as i have bought many airplanes and have only had two problems, one with ups, they replaced the wing that got damaged and horizon hobbies and they sent me another plane, great company, great carrier, are you still with me, help those whom need help, i am sure that NP will be a better company with the right people working for them but it is going to take more then one good man, maybe two would be a much better start, both knowing the different kinds of airplanes as today there is so much out there, so many changes that i am sure many of us do not understand but the company selling them has got to know it's products, all of them, i have tried to break this down so that even you can understand this, even though i never wrote to you in the first place i was writing to NP and as far as i am concerned, i have never bought a plane from them but i have been thinking about trying them out as they are willing to listen to people like me giving them information on what i as a pilot and a rc pilot, oh that means i have also flown and owned several different real airplane's also i have flown and crashed many rc airplanes, as we all have, let us try to be nicer to everyone and all get along, i am sorry if NP took my letter as putting them down as i was not, i think there a great company trying but when i have something to say i am going to say it to them only trying to help a guy that i believe to be honest with them and not to doubt his word as a fellow pilot, if he does not come up with his number's i will then take back everything i have said to protect and to agree with him but in my heart he is telling the truth, and if you cannot understand what i am saying then go onto some other site or just do not read it, but dont tell me about why i wrote that way as i have a reason, but you would not understand it.

That's the longest sentence I ever tried to read.

I had trouble understanding it all, but it's obvious you are not a customer of NP and your opinion of NP has no first hand experience.

The internet seems to be plagued with people giving opinions they shouldn't.

I don't work for NP nor any RC supplier, but here is my opinions from first hand experience for you.

If you want Tower Hobbies or Horizon Hobbies support (yes, I have had exceptional experiences with them), than pay for it. If you want reduced prices and risk not having the Tower Hobbies/Horizon Hobbies level support, than try NP ( I have experienced their poor customer service also.)

NP may improve to high customer service, but their definately not there now.

I purchased the CMPro Lancair 50 and have found the product to be very nice and a good value. For the inexperienced, their marginal instructions may lead them to failure. We will see how they do with my maiden flight

What's important to you.

Eric

Yes, I totally agree with Overpowered and have had the same exact experiences with Towerhobbies and Advantage Hobby. Great customer service on both sides. My gripe with Nitroplanes is don't put a banner on your website that guarantees 100% customer satifaction when it doesn't even come close. I had no idea Nitroplanes was that bad when I first visited their site. For new customers, they will never know when they first visit. They do eventually find out like I did, and then realize it may not be worth the money for the headache. You get what you don't pay for.

I've advocated that the ARF newbie NOT start with most of the N.P. ARF's (with the possible exception to the trainer ARF...)

The NP ARF's are great when you've put together a few planes and know what to expect and what to do... this thanks largely to the supplied directions.

That said, the planes that I have purchased, have held up well, a couple with well over 100 flights on them and several crashes.... well I do coat the covering too...

So it depends upon what you are looking for.

NP knows that customer support is an issue that they need to address. That has been well established.

Like any firm they are encountering their first "big" growing pains.... something that they might not have been ready for.

As long as my purchases arrive, I'll cut them some slack.... even if it is out of my own self interest... I do like the prices.

Here is my order # yhst-17210252890263-10475. Look it up and you'll see it was a $240 order. So don't say I didn't spend money at your website. And since you pissed me off, one of the batteries I ordered is defective, which I didn't mention earlier. But since you accused me of bad mouthing Nitroplanes.com, I might as well lay it all out there. One of the cells in the 3 cell battery isn't working. I'm only getting 2 cell power out of one of the lithos, which I've only used a half a dozen times. And this is on top of the $50 plane that crashed with the bad CG and the Edge 540T that I added .75 lbs to the nose to balance according to the CG in the instructions.

And regarding that comment at the show, I was there. Of course people are going to give you compliments on your planes with the great prices. They're able to see a face and talk to someone. If a customer didn't like your products or your customer service, they would be avoiding your booth altogether. Have you ever taken the same bad vacation twice? I wouldn't think you would revisit Hawaii if you hated it. And it's easy to give compliments to a person. A bit hard to give one to a wall, which is what all your customers are doing when they don't get the customer service.

Well, you have my order #. Let's see if anything positive will come of it.

Well, the comments have been flying, both for and against. I currently have a parts order in with NP and they have been patient with me and have tried, at last contact, to get my 2 orders together for one shipping cost. Then I went and asked them to include another part which I discovered I must have at the last minute and asked them to include that part also, completely outside the normal parts ordering process. This was just before this weekend and assuming they did not work Sat, Sun, and Mon (MLK holiday), I hope to get an e-mail with good news. They were quick to respond on Thursday. I have 3 helicopters and they are all down for repairs. I know this does not say much for my piloting skills, but I'm learning. I have never tried an RC aircraft before Dec. 2006 so please don't flame me. I will keep you all posted on the progress of my order. I am hoping that I can give NP some well deserved kudos for outstanding customer service, but we will have to wait and see. I hope they get it on the way to me on Tuesday so I will have something to fix 'n fly before this weekend. I'm optimistic, and my sainted mother called me the "eternal optimist!"
BTW, does anyone know of an electric helicopter that comes already upgraded (aluminum rotor parts and/or brusheless motors). I am tired of flimsy running gear.

And Jose, I like the way you think. I hear the voice of reason in your postings.

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