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Old 10-23-2014, 04:46 PM
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Well you know it goes in and out better with more lube.
Old 10-24-2014, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Capt Lou
I need help with a Saito 125. It's a new engine that I installed in a Great Planes Decathlon (Giant Scale 89" Wing Span) kit. The engine is installed inverted with a stock muffler but right angle (90 degrees) manifold. I use Powermaster 20/20 fuel and a 16x6 Zoar wood propeller. I have broken in the engine with about 1.5 gallons of fuel and it runs well with a good transition from low to high. My issue is that I can only get about 8600 RPM's at full throttle. I called Horizon and they told me that 9000 RPM's is the max I should achieve and that 8600 is the low end but not necessarily bad. I have find tuned the low end idle and that is running perfectly and I can tune the high end but only at a max of 8600 RPM's. Can anyone tell me what their experience is with these engines, especially maximum RPM's. Also, has anyone used a 17x6 propeller to improve the RPM's? thanks in advance for any assistance. Capt Lou
I used only a 15" APC on mine, but I suspect that may be about the best you are going to get for a while. You may see some RPM creeping up as you burn more fuel. The 125 is a slow turner, so it won't be a screamer. Another thing about that engine is it was difficult to keep well tuned from one day to the next until around the 2 gallon point. It was just touchy that way on mine. I would say give it a little more time, get used to the 9000 rpm range, and watch for small improvements if they develop further.

RC-Fanatic- okay, I see where you are coming from. The low speed should stay set once the engine is completely broken in and you get the needle set just right.
Old 10-24-2014, 08:17 AM
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I like the MA 14x8 three blade best on the 125. Maybe not for that particular plane. Favorite 2-blade is the 15", like blw says. I never found a 16x6 that ran well on the 125.

Last edited by mike early; 10-24-2014 at 08:19 AM.
Old 10-24-2014, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Capt Lou
I need help with a Saito 125. It's a new engine that I installed in a Great Planes Decathlon (Giant Scale 89" Wing Span) kit. The engine is installed inverted with a stock muffler but right angle (90 degrees) manifold. I use Powermaster 20/20 fuel and a 16x6 Zoar wood propeller. I have broken in the engine with about 1.5 gallons of fuel and it runs well with a good transition from low to high. My issue is that I can only get about 8600 RPM's at full throttle. I called Horizon and they told me that 9000 RPM's is the max I should achieve and that 8600 is the low end but not necessarily bad. I have find tuned the low end idle and that is running perfectly and I can tune the high end but only at a max of 8600 RPM's. Can anyone tell me what their experience is with these engines, especially maximum RPM's. Also, has anyone used a 17x6 propeller to improve the RPM's? thanks in advance for any assistance. Capt Lou
I don't believe the 125 will pull a 17x6 prop. I have a 125 that was purchased used from Jim and I run a APC 16x6, it will turn around 9000
Old 10-24-2014, 11:52 AM
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Good info on the 125 since I got one at a SM a few weeks ago. I have it in my P-51, but haven't run it yet. I am using the same prop I ran on the 100.
Old 10-24-2014, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Capt Lou
I need help with a Saito 125. It's a new engine that I installed in a Great Planes Decathlon (Giant Scale 89" Wing Span) kit. The engine is installed inverted with a stock muffler but right angle (90 degrees) manifold. I use Powermaster 20/20 fuel and a 16x6 Zoar wood propeller. I have broken in the engine with about 1.5 gallons of fuel and it runs well with a good transition from low to high. My issue is that I can only get about 8600 RPM's at full throttle. I called Horizon and they told me that 9000 RPM's is the max I should achieve and that 8600 is the low end but not necessarily bad. I have find tuned the low end idle and that is running perfectly and I can tune the high end but only at a max of 8600 RPM's. Can anyone tell me what their experience is with these engines, especially maximum RPM's. Also, has anyone used a 17x6 propeller to improve the RPM's? thanks in advance for any assistance. Capt Lou
Thanks guys for all your responses. I purchased an APC 16x6 today and will try it as soon as I get good weather. The 125 is also rated for a 17x6 prop according to the owner's manual and I will also try it. I will post my results for everyone to see. Again, thanks! Capt Lou
Old 10-24-2014, 03:56 PM
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G'day Mate,
I have a Saito FG21, which is the equivalent to a 125 Glow, but slightly less power, I run a APC17x6, on a Spacewalker, that plane loves the 17x6, I have tried a 16x6, and a 16x8, BUT on a Decathlon, which is designed for aerobatics, I would try more pitch, like a 16x8, or 16x10, this plane needs more speed.
The plane, & the way you fly it will determine the best prop, NOT RPM figures. By the sound of it, your 125 is not run in yet, & will develop more power as it runs in.
Fly it & forget theory, don't over think it.

Cheers
Old 10-24-2014, 04:55 PM
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For a scale flight speed and aerobatics with decathlons and similar a six pitch prop is ideal at the rpm we get from saito engines.On an 89" decathlon cap should be running a 150 or 180.

ps trev how's the 30 going?
Old 10-25-2014, 03:28 PM
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Ok my stuff up the comment about more oil in fuel was directed at the guy who had overheating and poor idle with 15% oil mix.. O/heating can be put down to low oil, has happened often at my field likewise idleing. Last time I had this problem though was because of absolutely stuffed / rusted up bearings on my mates 65. I only use wooden props for the initial "run in" tank of fuel if ever the exception is my vintage XOAR props for WW1 models. They are great. Now the weather is great, the field 10 minutes away and a number of big models with even bigger Saitos to test and observe in operation. So enough of this as interesting as it is the wild blue yonder beckons
Old 10-25-2014, 03:31 PM
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Old Fart the old 30 is going great in my mates model (put grinding teeth sound track here). My new one is in the stand for run in cycle and the model (Lanzo Racer) is sitting lonely on the bench awaiting its transplant. Otherwise it is still virtually N.I.B.
Old 10-25-2014, 06:25 PM
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Capt Lou, I have a pair of 125's, one in Rare Bear and the other in a 1/5 scale WACO, (as they are side mount they have the appropriate Slimline mufflers to keep all but the exhaust tubes within the round cowls). Both are strong but I think the design lends more to lower speed torque than RPM. My only advice is to provide adequate mount damping as they can shake a lot of airframe if bolted to a metal or extremely rigid mount.

With a few Saitos in the fleet now my other comment would be that, to me at least, their prop specs always seem a bit on the aggressive side. I would not recommend working with the largest or highest pitch in the range, (and expect to see your higher RPM, as well). This is especially true if working with 3-blade props. On the 91 and 100 I find the best performance with a 13/8 three blade MA. This is at the very bottom of their range for the 91 and below that for the 100. For my scale type of flying those work best.

p.s. I also think you may not be completely worn in yet, even with a gallon and a half out the exhaust. Personally I lean towards that being a good thing. Any engine that peaks early makes me wonder how durable it will prove to be in service.

Last edited by Cougar429; 10-25-2014 at 06:28 PM.
Old 10-26-2014, 02:04 AM
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Acdc i'm posting you a letter from france and a free castor oil scratch and sniff.Cap i hope you get a good average out of all the opinions so far.I don't like 125's they don't suit the flying i do,too big physically for the performance they have and my 115 will match it on the same prop.

Trev you are generous with your engines especially the thirty and grinding teeth is about right mate.What's that old aussie saying about never loaning your chainsaw or the handbrake out because ?
Old 10-26-2014, 02:06 AM
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You know sometimes they make you wait so long that you hit the button again,it's so thrilling
Old 10-26-2014, 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Old Fart
Acdc i'm posting you a letter from france and a free castor oil scratch and sniff.Cap i hope you get a good average out of all the opinions so far.I don't like 125's they don't suit the flying i do,too big physically for the performance they have and my 115 will match it on the same prop.
That does it! I have to squeeze the $$$ out of the budget to get an FA-115 for my 1/5 scale J-3 Cub.
Old 10-26-2014, 11:47 AM
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My money is on the 1.25 turning a larger prop faster than the 1.15, saying the same prop that's too small isn't saying much.
Old 10-26-2014, 12:58 PM
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This is the skinny from the break in of the 1.25 on Jan. 01 2006

I did the break in on the Saito 1.25 today, it took one hour and five minutes and consumed 32 oz of fuel. I started with the HS needle at 3.5 turns out from closed, the LS needle where it was shipped.
Prop--- Master Airscrew 16x6 Classic
Fuel--WildCat 10% Premium Extra
Plug--Stock, it looks like an OS-f
Temperature 40 degrees F
I did the usual 10 minutes at 4,000 rpm, actually 20, I went in the house to get the camera and the Missus wanted a sandwich. I then set the throttle at 5,000 for 20 minutes and then 6,500 for 20 minutes and took the high speed reading, I took the idle reading about 2 minutes before it ran out of fuel. There is a shaky spot about 3,200 rpm accompanied by smoke, the LS needle is 1.25 turns in from factory and can be leaned some more, the HS needle is at 2.375 turns out from closed for the High speed reading. It started on the first backflip and never offered to quit.
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Last edited by Hobbsy; 10-26-2014 at 01:02 PM.
Old 10-26-2014, 02:02 PM
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Question on cooling. My FG-11 is running with the cowl on, this is the second flight since putting it on. About 10 minutes into the flight it stuttered at WOT, so I throttled back and continued to fly at half for a few more minutes, which it ran fine at, and a few more WOT tries it ran fine, but just to be safe I landed (my first perfect flare 3 point with teh T-Clips too), and as soon as the plane landed the engine quit. It quit the last time I flew it when landing too, but never before that.


I put it on the stand and ran it at WOT for a few minutes, then shut it down and put my thermometer on the head. It hit 180*F, and when I tried to start it, it wouldnt run well, so looks like it heat soaked. So does this sound like a cooling issue? I have the cowl baffled to direct air over the head, but I dont think I have enough exit space. I opened it up just a bit in the field behind the head, and flew again for about 15 more minutes, this time without issue. When I landed I took another reading and it was only 120*. Looks like it helped some, but not sure if this is the issue or not.




Old 10-27-2014, 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Hobbsy
My money is on the 1.25 turning a larger prop faster than the 1.15, saying the same prop that's too small isn't saying much.
Dave you know i've never had any respect for you because your american beer is so bad.We all know my mate trev is in the chardonnay set and would never stoop so low as to drink a beer so i'm not relying on him to back me up,but man your coors beer is awful,can;t even get politely drunk on that stuff how do you guys manage ?

Now lets get over this 'tractor factor' way you think about our very small engines pulling ever lighter arf airframes.I was 300 behind you with a mas classic 15x8@10% nitro,on 15% i'm 140 behind you on the same day and to me they both seem to give the same vertical performance on the same prop and airframes but the 115 accelerates quicker on that 15x8.
Old 10-27-2014, 01:55 PM
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Old Fart, chardonnay is a dry tastless thing, you assume to much, now Ceouchen Moselle, Traminer Reisling or if you want a lolly water drink Heiniken or Tiger (in original form not Aussie version) are ok but keep the ice blocks away please. I saw an e**l@#ic thing on the w/end pulling 16,000rpm plus, with a 16x6 up the front, interesting, also saw a 36 gas "start itself" (on board starter), and my mate total a Raiden (foamie glider) and a Saito 65 that "was only 3 years old" with a dud plug (the original one I might add) All a lot to dogest given the "problems" you guys are having with RPM's and props. Most common problem here is usually "over propping" and not matching prop to fuel to engine (not necessarily in that order) to get the desired outcome. You have to fiddle a bit here. A good and varied selection of props plus the ability to mix fuel helps. Consider Saito 65 in Texaco mode (fuel economy event) any where from 14x8, through 15x6 or 8 to 16x6 in prop size, usually APC, same engine same a/frame in duration with hotter fuel 11 to 12500rpm with a 12 x6 Bolly carbon prop.
Old 10-27-2014, 01:56 PM
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Tat should read crouchen moselle and "to digest" keyboard not playing the game this am.
Old 10-27-2014, 02:51 PM
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OK, the high compression .80 first run is in the books.

Saito .80 with 15.5 to 1 compression
Prop==13.5x6 Bolly with Tru Turn 3" spinner
C&H Ignition set at 31 btdc
Fuel==WildCat 10% 2/4
Exhaust==Davis SoundMaster in cowl muffler
Max rpm==10,290
Idle====1,582
Acceleration and top rpm are super smooth, the .80, the 1.00 and 1.50 all now have that trait. The picture is not very good, the sun was killin the camera.
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Old 10-27-2014, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Capt Lou
I need help with a Saito 125. It's a new engine that I installed in a Great Planes Decathlon (Giant Scale 89" Wing Span) kit. The engine is installed inverted with a stock muffler but right angle (90 degrees) manifold. I use Powermaster 20/20 fuel and a 16x6 Zoar wood propeller. I have broken in the engine with about 1.5 gallons of fuel and it runs well with a good transition from low to high. My issue is that I can only get about 8600 RPM's at full throttle. I called Horizon and they told me that 9000 RPM's is the max I should achieve and that 8600 is the low end but not necessarily bad. I have find tuned the low end idle and that is running perfectly and I can tune the high end but only at a max of 8600 RPM's. Can anyone tell me what their experience is with these engines, especially maximum RPM's. Also, has anyone used a 17x6 propeller to improve the RPM's? thanks in advance for any assistance. Capt Lou
Guys: Thanks again for all your suggestions. The final result is that I put an APC 16x6 and it turns about 9,000 RPM's. This will now be the solution for my 1.25. I also tried a Xoar 17x6 put it did not improve the situation, only turning about 8,000 RPM's. I hope this info helps someone else. Again, thank you all
Old 10-27-2014, 03:39 PM
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Sam Adam's, 'nough said.
Old 10-27-2014, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Capt Lou
Guys: Thanks again for all your suggestions. The final result is that I put an APC 16x6 and it turns about 9,000 RPM's. This will now be the solution for my 1.25. I also tried a Xoar 17x6 put it did not improve the situation, only turning about 8,000 RPM's. I hope this info helps someone else. Again, thank you all
The 17 X 6 @ 8000 will make slightly more thrust than the 16 X 6 @ 9000. If you have a low drag airframe, I would use the 17 X 6 as it leaves you more RPM for speed once the prop unloads in the air.
Old 10-27-2014, 04:26 PM
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Thank you for the info

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